Lit Should Disney bring back the Sith?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by StarWarsFan91, Oct 6, 2017.

?

Should the Sith have a future post-RoTJ?

yep 18 vote(s) 32.7%
nope 20 vote(s) 36.4%
maybe 17 vote(s) 30.9%
  1. Uncivilized Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2015
    star 1
    They are only Sith if they follow the Sith code. Snoke's and Ren's dark side practices have not been explained yet as far as I know.
  2. EmperorHorus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2016
    star 2
    That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's a really dumb reason to justify giving them a different name.

    "They don't follow the Sith Code" . . . I mean just use some common sense. What actual difference does that make?

    As far as the movies and even most expanded universe is concerned Sith = Dark Jedi = Dark Force User.

    Any difference is purely semantic.
    OutsiderJediSam and AusStig like this.
  3. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    If there was a mystical energy source that Hitler and Stalin both used, Stalin still wouldn't be a Nazi nor would Hitler be a Communist.
  4. The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    No actually in the EU it is explained much more in depth and there are substantial differentiation between Dark Jedi and Sith. It's in the films that every non-Jedi Force sensitive is a Sith.
    AusStig likes this.
  5. Uncivilized Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2015
    star 1
    My response is based on Canon. This is how it's explained in Wookieepedia. I looked it up because I honestly didn't know how much about the Sith has been explained in Canon. I have been hearing rumors that Snoke might be seeking some kind of balance in the Force. That would not make him a Sith for sure.
  6. EmperorHorus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2016
    star 2
    You guys are completely missing my point. If you're concerned about whether "Disney" will bring back "Official Sith" in the EU that's completely different to what I'm saying.

    My entire point is that practically speaking, especially as far as the films are concerned, the Sith never left/are already back.

    There would be no point for Disney to "bring back the Sith" in any other manner. What would that achieve? It's just a name. Sith code/rituals blah blah blah is meaningless window dressing.

    Dark side people wearing black and using red lightsabers. Doesn't matter what you call them, as I said, it's just semantics.
    SpecForce Trooper likes this.
  7. Uncivilized Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2015
    star 1
    But you could also say the same thing about the Jedi. Is there a difference?
  8. EmperorHorus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2016
    star 2
    What do you mean?

    Difference between Jedi & Sith? There's some pretty big differences
  9. Uncivilized Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2015
    star 1
    You said that Sith is "just a name" and the code is "meaningless window dressing". Do you feel the same way about the Jedi? Or do the Jedi have more significance in your view?
  10. EmperorHorus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2016
    star 2
    Comparing Jedi to what? I have no idea what you're trying to say. It's either thoroughly irrelevant, completely nonsensical or you just need to explain it more clearly to me.
  11. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    That's basically what I think was wrong with the Sith, they had no philosophy other than "Bad guys."

    I'd like to see a sincere fleshing out of them as villains versus other groups.

    What'd I'd ideally like would be:

    The Sith are a kind of uber-Randian philosophy where they only care about themselves and actively reject all morality. They have a 1984 "The purpose of power is power" which they use only to benefit themselves as well as push themselves beyond all limits. They worship strength, hate weakness, and are nothing more than hateful bullies.

    I'd like the Knights of Ren to be a cult to Darth Vader founded after his death at Endor and basically have been created whole cloth from misunderstandings of who he was and his teachings. It's entirely new and propped up by Snoke. It also has the philosophy they're the GOOD GUYS and Darth Vader was THE BEST GUY. That peace comes through power and the galaxy needs to be protected with maximum force.

    And the two groups would HATE each other.
    theraphos, AV-6R7, Gamiel and 2 others like this.
  12. Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2016
    star 3
    The Nightsisters use the Dark Side and they arent Sith

    Using the Dark Side does not make you a true Sith
  13. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    The big difference is I doubt Snoke wants Ren to murder him.
    vncredleader likes this.
  14. JediBatman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 3, 2015
    star 3
    I thought it was pretty obvious. You said that the Sith are already back and any difference between Snoke/Kylo/the Knights of Ren and "official Sith" is just semantics. Since Luke's "It's time for the Jedi to end" line in the TLJ trailer, some have predicted that Luke and Rey will start some sort of new order going by a different name. @Uncivilized wants to know if you also think that "Jedi" is "just a name".
  15. EmperorHorus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2016
    star 2
    Which is a pretty stupid question given that we have nothing to compare the Jedi to at this stage.

    I'm clearly referring to specific, existing examples, re. the Sith & Dark Jedi. Asking me to compare it to a hypothetical future scenario that doesn't exist, is obviously a question that is not possible to answer. Some simple common sense would go a long way here.

    If another light-side force-using order came along that was effectively the same as the Jedi just as Dark Jedi/Kylo Ren & Snoke are effectively the same as the Sith, then, obviously, yes it would be the same. Again, common sense.
    Last edited by EmperorHorus, Oct 9, 2017
  16. Dannik Jerriko Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2017
    As with some previous posters, I would like to see Disney bring more context to what Kylo and Snoke actually are. I would also like some more context as to what it means to be a Sith, as opposed to a dark side user. I know that the Sith follow a set teaching and adhere to a code, but I would like to learn more about this. The Last Jedi may shed some light on these matters.

    As for bringing the Sith back (whatever it may mean to be a true Sith), I don't want that to happen. I like to think of Vader's fall and redemption as being predestined by the force. If the Sith were not wiped out by Vader's final act, then the prophecy of the chosen one bringing balance to the force would be rendered null and void. I wonder if The Last Jedi will mention that prophecy. It strikes me that Vader not only destroyed the Sith, but also wiped out the Jedi order, which had grown stagnant. Perhaps this wiped the slate clean and allowed for two new orders to rise in their stead.

    I would, however, like to see Disney bring back the Sith in the context of the past. It would be fantastic to see the Sith at the height of their power. We could also learn what fate befell those ancient Sith, allowing the Jedi to complacently believe them extinct for a millennia.
    Last edited by Dannik Jerriko, Oct 9, 2017
  17. Uncivilized Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 8, 2015
    star 1
    I was trying to understand what is going on inside your head. I agree, that was stupid.
  18. sidv88 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2005
    star 4
    Isn't the prophecy already sort of meaningless to both Luke, friends and family of deceased New Jedi students, and galactic civilian after TFA though? How will Vader's sacrifice be rendered more meaningful if Snoke and the Knights of Ren are technically not Sith?

    I mean, at this point the Chosen One prophecy is kind of meaningless. Even if it refers to Vader wiping out the Sith... To put it this way, the friends and family of Hosnian Prime victims and New Jedi Order purge victims aren't really going to care at this point whether Kylo and the First Order call themselves Sith or not. The victims aren't coming back regardless if Snoke and Kylo are Sith or not. Making them Sith isn't going to render the Chosen One Prophecy null and void because from the survivors' point of view this prophecy is meaningless anyway.

    The Chosen One Prophecy, about balance to the Force, probably meant ending large scale damage from bad Force users, not just anyone who called themselves Sith. And TFA just rendered that moot.
    Last edited by sidv88, Oct 9, 2017
    AusStig and Dannik Jerriko like this.
  19. Dannik Jerriko Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2017
    I have to agree with your point. The atrocities of the First Order are not rendered any more palatable by the fact that Snoke and Kylo are not Sith. Equally, Luke's attempt at establishing a new Jedi order appears to have been thwarted by the Knights of Ren.

    This is just speculation on my part, but I wonder if bringing balance meant destroying the Jedi as much as the Sith. As the two philosophies were diametrically opposed to one another, their existence fuelled conflicted. As these trained force users were among the most powerful and influential beings in the galaxy, conflicts between them spiralled into galaxy-wide conflicts, causing millions of deaths.

    I mean to say that perhaps the prophecy has not yet been completely fulfilled. Anakin started a chain of events that will eventually see the destruction of both Sith and Jedi and something more benign taking their place.

    I will be very interested to see how this is addressed in The Last Jedi.
    Last edited by Dannik Jerriko, Oct 9, 2017
    SpecForce Trooper and sidv88 like this.
  20. SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2016
    star 4
    The Ren Knights and Snoke aren't Sith it seems. They look like Sith. They act like Sith. People think they're Sith. I don't need them to be Sith, but Disney, show us how they're different! Being a Sith is obviously more than just wearing black, acting mean and swinging a red saber, but casuals don't know this. The Ren Knights must be more unique than they seem, otherwise they're just Diet Sith.
    AusStig likes this.
  21. darklordoftech Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2012
    star 6
    Snoke doesn't look like a Sith.
  22. sidv88 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 2005
    star 4
    from the Clone Wars microseries:

    Dooku: You are more powerful than I have sensed.
    Asajj Ventress: The Dark Side is strong in me, for I am Sith.
    Dooku: Ha, ha, ha! A bold claim. But you are not Sith.
    [Dooku floats down using the force and stands before Ventress]
    Dooku: You wear the trappings of the Sith, you fight like the Sith. But this can be imitated, however. You lack a vital quality found in all Sith. Sith have no fear. And I sense much fear in you.
    Asajj Ventress: You are a foolish old man who knows nothing of the Dark side!
    [ignites her lightsabers]

    Dooku: [chuckling] Indeed?
    [She charges, and he shocks her into unconsciousness with Sith lightning]

    So the question is (according to the Legends microseries)--does Kylo have much fear in him? And apparently he does. He fears not becoming as powerful as Vader. Does Snoke have fear?

    The EU had differing takes on this. Both Mace Windu and Luke Skywalker have claimed that Palpatine has much fear in him (ROTS novelization, Dark Empire). Dooku says in the microseries that Sith don't fear (although apparently fear leads to you becoming a Sith per Dooku's words in ROTS and Yoda's words in TPM). Who's right?
  23. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    Actually, I'm not sure they do act like Sith much. Yes, they hate Jedi and want to conquer the galaxy but Snoke is a nurturing pleasant presence in Kylo's life while canon Palpatine is much more antagonistic.
    Voltron64 likes this.
  24. EmperorHorus Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2016
    star 2
    Don't get ****** at me because you made yourself look like an idiot. I did everything I could to explain a relatively simple point very clearly, multiple times. Failure to understand that simple point is on you.
  25. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 6
    That actually remind me of an old comic involving Hitler and Stalin fighting eachother with mystical Powers http://dsss.be/hitler-vs-stalin/index.php?img=0