CT Should Disney release the unedited original trilogy on Blu-ray or not?

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Carrie Walsh, Jan 17, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Darth_Nub, MOC Yak Face
  1. SithHorseman Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2002
    star 1
    Hmmm ... Very Sith-like. :p

    But consistent with your line of argument, if Disney has indeed acquired the rights to these films in its deal with Lucas, doesn't that also come with the right to "spit on Lucas"? And doesn't Disney get to choose "what's right and what's wrong"? :)

    Still, one doesn't need to use the adjective "definitive." Simply call them the original theatrical releases, which is exactly what they are.

    Let's not forget that the original theatrical release of Star Wars was the biggest film of all time, won 7 Academy Awards and was nominated for four more, including Best Picture. This film needs to be preserved.

    But I've said my peace. In the end, I think you and I are not so different.
    Last edited by SithHorseman, Jan 24, 2014
    Barbecue17 likes this.
  2. fuzzbox77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2008
    star 1
    Well of course it should be released. But as to which audio track???

    The "Blast it, Wedge - Where are you?" and Aunt Beru dub were from the mono mix - however - the separate mono audio mixes should be included as a separate track. If fan restorations/edits can provide these via expensive personal means then why can't Disney do this via Fox. I'd say the 1985 audio mix (remixed into 7.1 HDMA/5.1 DD).

    As to which version the 1985 version inserted Threepio cut scene and complete with the Episode IV subtitle. As for printed subtitles for Greedo and Jabba - restored to how they were. in 1977 and 1983 respectively.

    Most people will remember the various re-releases of SW from 1978-81, but it lived a larger life on VHS also. So when we say the "Original Theatrical Trilogy" having it as a complete trilogy could go by means of the 1985 triple bill re-release also.

    One thing that does need to be integrated is the extended Rebel Fleet shot from the 70mm print at the end of The Empire Strikes Back. Very few people can still remember it but it was changed in favour of the 35mm shot for VHS versions.
  3. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Got to disagree there - part of the argument for re-releasing the OOT is about making the original film that blew the world away, won so many awards and made a fortune, widely available. For the most part, that all happened in 1977/78, so I'd go with the original opening scroll, sans 'Episode IV: A New Hope', and with the slightly different lettering of portions of the text. It makes it inconsistent with the other six films, but like I've already said, that isn't all that important anyway, and that's why there are SE's to begin with.

    Regarding audio, though, it wouldn't be a big ask for alternative tracks, just to illustrate the subtle differences made back in the 1980s.
  4. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    While we're fantasizing, I'd like the 1997 versions too. That ending of Jedi works for me, with the new music, the shots of Bespin, Tatooine, and Coruscant (something about the insertion of that shot of Naboo bothered me - partially, I'm sure, because it stuck out to me as an addition but also because of the brightness of it, I think. Plus they changed some of the architecture on Coruscant - super minor stuff, but noticeable ;)), and Old Man Anakin.

    I don't know that much about the different versions, but you could ideally have like... the theatrical, 1995 (though I'd take one or the other of those - perhaps just the theatrical of SW1977 as a monument to its place as the originator, plus the 95 THX versions (?)), 1997SE, plus whatever other versions they want to include. I was going to say that those seem like the major stages of development to me - "original," 1997 SE, and post-Prequel revisions. But it's even more complicated than that.
    Last edited by Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn, Jan 24, 2014
    Darth_Nub likes this.
  5. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Hell, I'm still disappointed that the John Jympson assembly cut of 'The Star Wars' hasn't been released in its entirety. Having all the different versions available somehow would be a beautiful way of illustrating how films are put together, tweaked, potentially improved, then how they can be altered to fit even bigger contexts.
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  6. Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn The Other Saga Moderator

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Sep 23, 1999
    star 6
    Is that the "Lost Cut"?
  7. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Weesa Free!
    Lt.Cmdr.Thrawn likes this.
  8. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
    Yep. It was never really 'lost', and although it's as rough as guts, it must have been digitised somehow for portions of it to be included on the 1998 Behind The Magic CD-ROM. No reason to restore it, but it'd be worth seeing in whatever condition it was in.
  9. Lars_Muul Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 2, 2000
    star 6

    Yeah, this "canon debate" isn't really a canon debate. It was just about how the movies should be packaged and presented - and why.

    I was on the verge of saying "Good is a point of view", actually ;)
    That's why I find villians like Palpatine so fascinating. I don't agree with his actions, but his view on reality from a philosophical standpoint is very similar to mine.

    From my philosophical point of view, everyone has the right to do anything, but from my personal moral point of view, Disney shouldn't do that.
    We don't know the exact nature of their deal, though. The contract likely contains a few clauses regarding these things. There are probably few things that Disney can't legally do with Star Wars, but to respect GL's current stance on the movies would be required of them, I imagine.

    Exactly!

    Academy Awards mean nothing to me and from my point of view, all editions are the same movie at different stages of development, but I understand what you're saying. To have access to the film in the state it was in when it changed the world is certainly desirable!

    No, not very :)


    Regarding which cut and which audio track should be restored, I agree with Nub: Stay true to the 1977 release. I don't care if they have to re-record some lines or sound effects, as long as it sounds EXACTLY like the original, because no matter how it's done, it won't be the original print anyway. The important thing is that it's exactly like it, that the experience is the same.





    Staying true is a hard job
    /LM
    Last edited by Lars_Muul, Jan 25, 2014
    Darth_Nub likes this.
  10. JediKnightOB1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 5
    I don't particularly care to spend any more money on yet another edit of the saga. With the release of the Blu-Ray discs, a good decoder and editing software anyone could may their own "edit(s)." As a matter of fact there are several edits on YouTube, one in particular is TPM sans Jar Jar.
    Sith-Mullet likes this.
  11. fuzzbox77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2008
    star 1

    And exactly what fan editors have done. Adywan has done this with TESB for his Revisited Edition. Having seen a workprint and the meticulous restoration he did with colour correction - TESB looks 100 times better than the official Blu-Ray and back to it's unaltered colour scheme. Yet, if a fan can do this (and also Harmy - although colour problems are present in his Despecialized Editions) from 18 year old 2k restorations - then LFL/Fox could strike that deal with Disney to get the OTT back out to the hungry public and older/nostalgic fan audience.

    Why? Because there has never been more need for the original theatrical cuts in a restored version. 17 years and three heavily debated Special Edition cuts of each episode later - speaks volumes.
    Last edited by fuzzbox77, Jan 28, 2014
    Heero_Yuy likes this.
  12. TX-20 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 3
    What the OOT really needs is a new transfer. A 4K remaster would do wonders for them.
    fuzzbox77 likes this.
  13. Bob Octa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 2013
    star 1
    Yes. Hopefully with Lucas' blessing and not with a half-hearted job like with the DVDs. I won't buy them because I don't miss them at all. But it'll make many fans happy without diminishing my favored version of Star Wars in the least. Plus, honestly, it'll be nice putting an end to all the griping, as well. Sick to death of coming across it whenever a Star Wars discussion is had anywhere else on the internet (I would also enjoy it if needless prequel-bashing was put to a stop whenever Star Wars is discussed elsewhere, too, but that'll never happen).
    Last edited by Bob Octa, Feb 6, 2014
  14. Darth Maul Apprentice Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2014
    star 4
    Ditto.
  15. Blur Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 1999
    star 4
    Well, I don't want to see just the OOT on Blu-ray. Why? Because I actually like some of the changes in the 1997 Special Editions, 2004 DVD's, and 2011 Blu-rays.

    What I would like to see is this - and, I know this has been mentioned before: Some kind of OT set (probably not Blu-ray, but a future technology) that will enable the viewer to pick & choose what changes they do or don't want in the OT:

    You could see OOT ANH unaltered. Or, you could see the OT with the hugely improved ending X-wing/Death Star battle, the improved Millenium Falcon departure from Docking Bay 94, and still have Greedo shoots first...

    You could see the OOT ESB unaltered. Or, you could see ESB with just the corrected Wampa arm in the beginning & the expanded Cloud City sequences.

    You could see the OOT ROTJ unaltered. Or, you could see ROTJ with the original Sy Snootles band sequence, but also see the superior & more convincing effects re: people walking on the Sail Barge & the herd of Banthas (from the SE), and the new music at the end celebration (my preference).

    With the technology constantly improving for home video these days, I have no doubt that something like this is possible - the question is whether Disney will be allowed to come out with something like this, and whether they will even if allowed...
    Last edited by Blur, Feb 6, 2014
    Darkslayer likes this.
  16. Jedi hrak Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2014
    I think everyone is getting confused in the understanding of Cannon and what this really means. Whether we are talking about the Original Theatrical Release or the "Special Editions" it doesn't change the story in any way, shape, or form. Normally the word "cannon" is used to refer to an accepted group of stories or works put together like the bible, for instance. Cannon is in reference to parts that harmonize and follow the same thinking and reasoning and even story. When people present parts that don't go together with what is already accepted, they are not considered Cannon.
    The "Adventures Of Luke Skywalker" whether Theatrical or Special, still start and end the same way. The "Special Editions" really don't do anything special at all. They are simply George Lucas trying to make himself feel better about movies that he considered "incomplete" or not his "original vision". The Greedo scene, the Jaba scene, the new Emperor scene, the different audio versions, all these don't change the story or make it any better as far as I am concerned. It just makes them different.
    As far as "Cannon" is concerned, why can't they ALL be cannon? They would be as they are now, The Original Theatrical releases and Special Editions. Both equally STAR WARS. Just like with Coke. There is the Original Coke, New Coke, Diet Coke, and Coke Zero. Which Coke do you consider the "real" Coke? Silly question right? They are all Coke and title is shared equally. It is the same thing with STAR WARS, they are ALL Cannon. The Special Edition just add a different Flavor of STAR WARS. But they don't alter the story. You can like which ever one you want and it doesn't have to be wrong. If you like the fact that Greedo shot first, that is your choice. I don't like that "flavor" of STAR WARS, but to each his own.
    There is NO reason why the Original Theatrical release shouldn't be released to Blu-ray. It was that version that won 7 academy awards, made 100 of millions of dollars, and is a masterpiece in it's own right. The fact that GL changed them only shows that he became the corporate entities that he hated in his younger life. http://savestarwars.com/lucasspeechagainstspecialedition.html He turned to the dark side and became the Ted Turner of STAR WARS. If GL hated the old special effects so much why didn't he replace them all and not just some of them? Because he was "fixing" the things that he was mad about, that he couldn't do when he first made the movies. The Special Edition for GL is about pride and in a way, revenge for being forced to make the movies different than he wanted them to be. Get revenge all you want George, just leave us out of it. The OT STAR WARS movies are masterpieces the way they are and he doesn't get the right to change them anymore than Leonardo da Vinci changing Mona Lisa's smile "because he never like it". They belong to the world, and Da Vinci, GL, or anyone else, cannot change them.


    PS - I only watch the DVD of the original Theatrical Releases. And I would pay BIG MONEY to Disney to get the originals on Blu-ray in 1080p quality!!!
    Force Smuggler likes this.
  17. Oberst Hans Landa Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2014
    star 2
  18. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Have it released or be completely 1984'ed from our memories forever? Release it!
  19. fuzzbox77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2008
    star 1
    The footage was slightly altered. The THX 1995 releases of the trilogy were censored with frames removed to cover blast hits/flashes on troopers. 1994 was the last available full unaltered release of the theatrical trilogy.
  20. fuzzbox77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2008
    star 1
    On one note - those who grew up with the Special Editions in their three different guises (97/04/11) and tying the whole saga together with the prequels may not see the point - but this video i'm about to post may give them an insight of how good it was and the cultural impact on huge levels and (to some) emotional experience they had with the original theatrical versions. It was groundbreaking.

    I could possibly leave everything else Star Wars related behind if I had the theatrical cuts but still have an interest in the ST. It doesn't make anyone any less of a fan if they don't care for the EU, hate the prequels etc. Canon means nothing in the versions - it doesn't detract from the viewing experience as it's a clear and concise story told in those three original movies I saw as a kid if you were to tie the prequels to the OT. The effects don't come into it in tying trilogies together.

    As I said - to some it was an emotional experience as well as a joy and releasing the OOT would give something back to the fans who have been their for 3 decades who want the SW they know/knew and love in a Hi-Def format to grace their collections like a crown jewel... Simon Pegg will prove this how many of us felt about the OOT in the first 20 seconds of this clip...
  21. Binary_Sunset Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 5
    Perhaps the 1977 theatrical SW, the 1980 theatrical ESB, and the 1983 theatrical ROTJ will get Blu-Ray releases in 2015 as part of the ramping-up for the December 2015 release of Episode VII.

    The only thing better would be a 2014 Blu-Ray release. Preferably in March. :D
    Last edited by Binary_Sunset, Feb 27, 2014
  22. Rowboatcop Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2011
    star 1
    That didn't happen until 97. You might be thinking of the soundtrack that had a few new things added in for that final pre-special set.
    Last edited by whos_the_bossk, Feb 27, 2014
  23. Force Smuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/List...V_Broadcasts_and_VHS.2FBetamax.2FCED_Editions
  24. fuzzbox77 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2008
    star 1
    I'm gonna dig out and dust off my Executor VHS box set. Pretty certain it's the '95 release and I never trust anything online that can be altered by fans.
  25. Qui-Riv-Brid Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 18, 2013
    star 3
    Should they be released?

    Sure but I'm not clamoring for them.

    The problem is though I think you'd have to go to extraordinary lengths to get it right for the hardcores who go on about it all the time. Is there that kind of will and knowledge at Disney to do so and what exactly do people want?

    I think they'd want someone that is at once the original but so completely restored and remastered to a degree that wasn't possible until today's technology so in essence it'd be another edition.

    I think likely that some aspects of the sound mix would upset some. Other than some obvious SFX changes there were lots of unobvious ones that if missed would lead to more complaints and the biggest change that is usually overlooked is the colour timing for the movies which was changed from the 70's look to a modern day look. I rarely hear anyone talk of that change which really is a much bigger deal than worrying about improving some creature in the background that is onscreen for a few seconds.

    Do people really want the originals complete with the matte lines and other technical glitches that we'd notice today or do they want a perfected version of the OT? Doing restoration for dirt and scratches is one thing but it doesn't take much to create another version of a SE.

    Can't say I've really come across that much and if so I think it's a reaction against the same for the PT.

    That makes no sense to me. How can what is already known be spoiled? Vader is Anakin. That is out there and known. You can't change it. The surprise is long over the more important thing is Luke's reaction because he doesn't know. Doesn't change the scene.

    Maintaining mystery when the mystery is already reveal doesn't work. The PT immensely contributed to the OT making it far deeper and richer than it was before. I think it was almost entirely successful in that way so other than a few aspects like the Force ghosting which wasn't explored it did really well.

    The problem is that Lucas really skipped over so much in the OT which is pretty bereft of explanations and background (which was intentional) that so many things that were missed out on had to be addressed in the PT.
    Last edited by Qui-Riv-Brid, Mar 1, 2014
    Jarren_Lee-Saber likes this.
Moderators: Darth_Nub, MOC Yak Face
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.