Should income-tax be abolished?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by stevo, Sep 5, 2002.

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  1. stevo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 4
    I defintely think it should. Income tax started out as .5% in the 20's and the government promised that it would never go above 2% . . . it is now over 30. I do not care how much the U.S. needs that money-- the means of getting money through how much or little someone makes on how hard they work is something that I would never suppot.


    Please forgive me for not being well-informed on this subject, I am going to go read up on it right now.
  2. Red-Seven Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 1999
    star 5
    What are the alternatives you would support?

    A National Value-Added Tax (Sales Tax)?
    (Much) Heavier Corporate Taxes?
    (Astronomical) Tarriffs?
    Complete Abolition of 85% of all Federal programs, including Defense and all Social programs?
  3. stevo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 4
    Complete Abolition of 85% of all Federal programs, including Defense and all Social programs?



    I want to destroy the social programs and abolish forgein-aid. Will it happen? No, but that is what I believe is necessary and just.



    EDIT: Defense and education are imperative, but forgein aid and social programs are not. We need the Justice system, but it doesn't use its funds effectively.
  4. Red-Seven Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 21, 1999
    star 5
    First, Foreign aid is such a pathetically small part of the US budget that I am embarressed you list it along with Defense and Social Programs in scale.

    Second, funding for Defense would have to be slashed dramatically if there was no income tax and no other tax replacing the lost revenue.

    Third, I am quite sure you have no idea what you are talking about when you say you'd like to abolish *all* social programs.
  5. Rikalonius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 3
    Defense is provided for in the constitution, welfar and a state (by state I mean the federal government) run government school.

    I know it is inconcievable to ever get rid of it, but it should be reduced, and should be flattened. It was started in the early 1900's as a means to pay for WWI, and it was promised to be repealed.

    I would rather at this moment to get rid of Captital gains tax, inheritance tax, and marriage tax.
  6. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I don't think it should be eliminated, but it should definitley be lowered. I also don't think the government should be allowed to collect income tax from people under 18, beacuse they cannot vote, and therefore it is taxation without representation.
  7. stevo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 4
    Red-Seven: I do understand how little of a percentage that forgein-aid takes up, and I probably shouldn't have put that in-- a little too much of my opnion.
  8. Rikalonius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 3
    I also don't think the government should be allowed to collect income tax from people under 18, beacuse they cannot vote

    Rebeca, I think that is a great idea as well. I would go a step further and say that you shouldn't be allowed to vote UNLESS you are paying income tax. Why should you vote on how tax payer dollars are spent if you are not fiscially viable to it.

    And before someone suggests it, no I don't think if your super rich you should get more votes.
  9. stevo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 4
    EDIT: Oops, I read your post earlier Bec-- but somewhere along the way it got twisted in my head. And in that case, I do agree with you.



    And I, too, also have a major dislike of inheritance tax-- what is it? Almost 50% I think.
  10. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I never said I wanted the voting age changed. It should stay at 18. The government just shouldn't be allowed to collect taxes from minors. They can't vote. Therefore, it is taxation without representation.

    Edit: Ok, you got it now. And yeah, I also think inheiritance tax is wrong at such an excessive amount.
  11. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    I don't pay income taxes. If I did, they'd get very little. Our system for taxation is really stupid. We don't pay taxes. We give them our money, which they call being taxed.

    Isn't there something wrong with that? That the government can take money from you without you giving them your consent?
  12. Maveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    You give them consent. You use their roads, you use their water that they pipe to your house, the electricity that comes on when you turn on a switch, and eat the food that they insist meets "Pure" standards. If you did not want to give them your consent, you have the opportunity to leave.
  13. Aurra_Sting Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2002
    star 1
    I've always thought we should get rid of income tax and make sales tax much higher. Then you are, in a way, giving your consent as to how much they take from you.
  14. Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2000
    star 5

    What the government does provide for your taxes are schools, hospitals, roads, sporting facilities, parks, litter removal, social benefits, police services, ambulance services, fire brigades, community welfare services, courts, laws and regulation, defence forces, international policy, agriculture benefits, research and development.....the list goes on and on.

    If you don't want to pay tax, don't use any of these services. Buy an island somewhere and live in a grass hut with no essential services.
  15. DarthLothi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2001
    star 4
    I don't think it should be abolished, but I do think it needs to be flattened. 15% maybe. And eliminate the capital gains and inheritance taxes, as well as the marriage penalty.

    What really rankles me about the capital gains tax is that if you're investing on your own outside of a 401(k), you're essentially getting taxed twice on the same money. You get taxed on it when you earn it (as income tax), then again when you put it to work for you. And if you've hung on to your investments during the recent market drops, you'll pay capital gains taxes on those investments again when the market starts to go back up. The government screws you coming and going.

    And don't get me started on taxing imputed income...
  16. Wylding Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2000
    star 5
    I defintely think it should. Income tax started out as .5% in the 20's and the government promised that it would never go above 2% . . . it is now over 30.

    Promises promises.
  17. Maveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    15% would not be enough to cover the basic governmental services, let alone our extensive social programs.
  18. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    The question isn't "should", it's "can". Can we abolish income tax? Yes, but you would have to put in it's place another form of taxes. An incremental sales tax could concievably work. Tax them on what they spend, not what they take in on a particular year. Low taxes on neccesities like food, high on luxury items. It's impossible to abolish all taxes completely without ruining our country. To cut defense puts alot of people out of jobs. To cut social programs leaves those institutionalized by them starving while they try to adapt to a new way of life.

    We do have options but no tax is not one of them.
  19. Kit' Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 5
    Low taxes on neccesities like food, high on luxury items

    That doesn't always work. They recently introduced a Goods and Services tax down her in Australia. What is means is that everything (services, food, household items etc) has a 10% tax on it.

    What it meant was that everyone paid tax. No-one could avoid it, there wasn't a way to get around it. Now that's good when you want to tax the rich guys who can pay their accountants ridiculous amounts to get aound taxes. However, it sucks as the little guys. If you earn under the tax threshold then you're still getting taxed and it still puts you at a disadvantage.

    It also brought up a whole stack of problems with what should be taxed and what shouldn't. What foods should be taxed???? Should bread be taxed and caviar not? Should frozen chickens not be taxed (fresh food) and roast chickens be taxed? What about restaurant food??? It ended up being a nightmare of what could/should and what couldn't be taxed.

    Then once the food issue was resolved came the luxury items problem. What is and what isn't a luxury item? Well, according to the government tampons and sanitary pads for women were a luxury. We didn't need them according to the government(I'm still annoyed by that, in case you didn't notice). On the other hand, a cream to help men with a certain dysfunction was allowed. It caused a lot of debate and controversy and annoyed a lot of people.

    That's just my two cents about the whole thing in Australia. As you can see, it creates a lot of problems when you try a tax like that. :)

    Kithera
  20. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    Taxes in general are a nightmare. If you take all of the pubs for taxes in the US it'd be the largest book ever written x3.
  21. Maveric Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 1999
    star 4
    I feel sorry for those of you who have to pay state income taxes as well.
  22. tenorjedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2000
    star 5
    yeah it sucks.............but not as bad as it would to live in Texas [face_devil]






    I kid I kid. It's a great state



    For me to poop on!
  23. Jedi_Satimber Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 3, 2002
    star 8
    Hell yeah, there should be no income tax what-so-ever.....the government wastes it anyways.
  24. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Why exactly do we need taxes? We buy stuff, sell stuff, that should produce enough income. Considering how many adults there are in America. Bah! Taxes suck. And I don't care what they pay for. They're still to friggin' high!
  25. Khomeini_Ayatollah Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 8, 2002
    To avoid income tax all you have to do is avoid income.
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