Saga Should Jedi be allowed to have relationships?

I meant in this thread

 

It seems to me that one of the problems with the Jedi forbidding all attachments outside the Order was that they forgot how it felt to be a normal person. They had trouble understanding what a person feels, thinks and fears. They became so insulated that Palpatine was better able to con the whole galaxy without them noticing until it was too late. You can't cut yourself off from everyone outside of a small circle without losing a whole lot of perspective.

It seems to me that the Jedi should have the option to have a relationship with someone, provided they could handle the stresses of both the relationship and their calling. Hey, the President of the United States can marry and raise a family, while leading the government of a whole nation for 4-8 years, with no real breaks from the job. It should be handled on a case-by-case basis.

 

Can you give some examples of this?

 

No, they shouldn't. As witnessed with Anakin, it just conflicts you and makes you do terrible things. The Jedi Order stood for thousands of years by the time of TPM, and they did perfectly fine upholding the "no relationships" rule. Obi-Wan loved Satine, but having a far better grasp on his Jedi training and a stronger will to resist, he was able to surpress his feelings without it conflicting him in the long run. Relationships would just hinder a Jedi from his duty, putting something like the well being of others on the back burner to please the one(s) they love. The Jedi should be selfless, and being in a relationship or marriage would just lead them to being selfish. Anakin got protective of Padme and jealous of her being around others like Clovis, which put missions he was on in jeopardy.

So I stick with no, they shouldn't be allowed. Maybe Luke will change this rule come TFA, if the rumors of him having a child are true.

 

If anything, I was never really keen on the whole "Jedi adoption" thing. I find it more than a little strange that a Jedi could show up on your door and say "Greetings folks! We at the office hear your baby has a high Midichlorine count! We're ready to take the little nipper with us, so that he can be raised by strangers as a combat-monk and never know who you were from a hole in the wall!"

I mean, I hear people objecting to the "forbidden romance" Jedi-bylaws,but no one really talks about how messed up the Jedi were on getting new recruits. I think if anything were to change in the Order going forward it would be their recruiting process.

 

The Jedi tested the young and if they passed, it was up to the parents to say yay or nay. Those who didn't go were codex in a Holocron kept in the Temple. They never forced any of them into giving up their children. Qui-gon indicated as much when it came to Anakin.

 

Romantic.

Or tragic.

The motif of forbidden love is something I'm sure some in this world can relate to. They might have a love that crosses political, or racial, or religious, or gender, boundaries, or buck some other form of taboo (incest for example) and be forced into a secret lust or union of one kind or another. The world is not a particularly enlightened place; people sometimes feel the need to hide their affections and live in the shadows.

In this regard, the prequel trilogy might be reflecting the human condition on a slightly deeper level than you seem willing to credit it.

 

Does all this mean the Jedi are forbidden from using the GFFA version of Tinder?

 

I suspected as much. (as I'm sure there would've been a significant outcry against the Jedi,otherwise.) I don't think that was too clearly communicated in the movie,TBH.

Still, I must admit it's still a concept from the PT I dislike. I seriously doubt many families would give up their children to the Jedi, unless there was extenuating circumstances. (such as Anakin's being born into slavery). I guess maybe that's why there was never enough Jedi in the ranks overall.

 

Probably many wouldn't, but I would assume it would still be considered a great honor for parents to be asked if they wanted their child to be a Jedi. The child would have an humble and selfless life, but also an honorable and respectable one.

 

Should Jedi be allowed to get married and have/contact with their families?

Me "Yes"
Duchess Satine: "YES!"
Lux Bonteri "oh Yeah"
Padme Amidala "Absolutely "
Shmi Skywalker "Yes"
Count Dooku "Yes, of course they should"
Wilhuff Tarkin "Yes"
Admiral Ozzel "Yes"
Random people off the street "Yes"
Child Protective Services "Yes"
Hermione Granger "Yes"
Gandalf "Yes"
Professor Snape "Yes"
Denethor "Yes"
Gollum "Yesss preciousss"

Families doesn't = selfish

 

Families do NOT 'make you do terrible things'. Families cause one to determine if one has self-control or not. Anakin didn't.

 

Well said!

Yet Sith = SELFISH ... whereas Jedi are not meant to be Selfish ... but Selfless

Well the fact the saying and the truth fact being if your family loves you they stand by you no matter what ... I mean I'm sure we all do silly and stupid things in life and times and yet our familys not only 'put up' with it but they are supportive of it ...

 

Would you sacrifice your family for the greater good?

 

Would you reject your family because your boss told you it might cause trouble? Is it just to say to your parents & siblings, "I don't have any connection to you. Don't try to contact me again."

 

I figure we can extrapolate the Order's lack of understanding from some of the ways they reacted to Anakin. Ani's concerned about his mother, as any kid would be. The Council doesn't seem sympathetic; they lecture him on the nature of fear, but don't give any sign of personal concern for her. And, later, Kenobi rejects Ani's visions as just dreams; he doesn't even say, "Well, let's just make a call to Tatooine and see if she's OK." Makes me wonder if, after the events of AOTC, Kenobi at least told Ani, "My condolences for your loss." (Though, based on his behavior towards Padme in ROTS, he might've.)
Later, in ROTS, when Ani brings his later visions to Yoda's attention, he gets a lecture on materialism, but not, "Is this person OK? Have you consulted a doctor? " It's like the Jedi are so high-minded that, for the most part, they've lost touch with how regular people are. I'm not saying they don't care; I'm saying their caring is so abstract that they don't have as much connection with people as they should.

I'd have to figure Palpatine would latch on to this an exploit the Order's seeming obliviousness as part of his plan. The public wouldn't have much objection to the elimination of an Order that was so remote that people wouldn't really understand who they were and where they were coming from.

 

There's no "boss". And it's a fact that it may cause trouble. As for rejecting my family, yes, if I wanted to be a Jedi, I would have to reject any connection to my family. Not only in order to not put them at risk, but to not let emotions cloud my judgement (a necessity to fulfill my role as a Jedi).

 

You don't even have to reject your family. You never knew them to begin with, because you came to the temple at such a young age.

The Jedi are family. It's a bunch of adults taking care of children; feeding them, clothing them, educating them. The children all live under the same roof, and eat, sleep and go to "school" together. The children will then grow up and take care of the next generation, and pass on what they have learned...basically reproducing.

 

They could use Tinder and Grinder. They just couldn't E-Harmony for a long term commitment.

TPM did make it clear. Qui-gon didn't say, "I'm taking him as soon as he's free. He gave Shmi and Anakin a voice in the matter. The season two episodes, "Holocron Heist", "Cargo Of Doom" and "Children Of The Force" introduced the codex. The season six episodes, "The Disappeared" parts one and two focused on the Dagoyan Masters of Bardotta accused the Jedi of taking the children by force, which lead to a falling out and the Jedi were not welcomed on Bardotta.

Well, the animated series never went into detail. The old EU did through the "Jedi Apprentice" series and "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter". According to those stories, many families had either petitioned the Jedi to visit their worlds to test their children, or made pilgrimages to the Temple. According to "The Dark Rival", Xanatos was taken in due in part to his father being poor and unable to take care of his so. While according to Dooku's backstory, he came from a wealthy family which is where his title of Count comes from and why he had vast financial resources to help fund the Confederacy. In "The Fight For Truth", Qui-gon and Adi Gallia and their Padawans were summoned to Kegan to test and possibly train a child named O-Lana. While in "Shadow Hunter", an employee of the Temple named Lorn Pavan had his son Jax tested and after he was accepted, he was fired from his position in order to sever the emotional connections between father and son, so that Jax could grow up without an attachment to his father.

Now, a lot of these stories are out of continuity to some degree or another. But some of the basic tenants might carry over into future PT era stories.

Correct. Something I've long argued.

The fact is that being reassured that Shmi was okay wasn't enough. Anakin is the way he is because he is a control freak. He wants to control the fates of everyone that he cares for, because he thinks that he has to. He has the Force and it is a power that he is told can allow him do whatever he wants. And he wants to stop his loved ones from dying, which is the ultimate state of control.

 

While, according to strict interpretation of the Order's regulations, the birth parents sit at home with no way to know if their child is alive or dead, or even remembers them at all. And, should they try to ask, they'll get no answer. That doesn't sound right to me.

 

Hej darth-sinister, I think you need to edit your quotes.

 

Thanks.