Saga Should Jedi be allowed to have relationships?

Fair point.

 

I see lots of posters here claiming that families make the Jedi vulnerable and susceptible to failing in their duties, but let's consider that families are also a great source of strength. The love of spouse and children is what motivates many to strive to be the best they can be, and the support of a close family can keep a person going through the worst of times. In there misguided attempts to protect themselves, the PT Jedi turned their backs on family love, which is one of the greatest sources of goodness and light in every society. If Luke rebuilds the Jedi order, I think he will take that lesson to heart as he did in the throne room of the Death Star and allow or even encourage the new Jedi to find strength in the ties that bind.

 

I've always seen the Force as the ultimate Attachment, the ultimate bond. By maintaining this notion of detached compassion I see, I feel they succeeded only in limiting themselves in the Force, experiencing only the Strength in themselves, rather then embracing the full power of the Force as it flows through all things. By maintaining relationships, they protect themselves from the Darkness, by having the Strength of others to lean upon, in a way that exceeds the detached relationships of the Jedi.

People can say that it was Love that destroyed the Jedi. In a way, I see this as the Force's way of spiting an Order that cared more about their rules (rules born of Fear of the Darkness) then they did the very nature of the Force (that nature being one of absolute attachment). But more specifically, I see that the Love was only able to be used because the Jedi themselves didn't tolerate it. The Jedi do seem to have a problem with this. If you don't blindly conform to their views, you don't really have their support. Not unless you decide to conform. At that point you have all their support. Anakin had no Support from the Jedi, and knew he couldn't get any. So it was the Jedi's own actions that allowed that Love to be twisted. In the end, it was Love that saved Anakin, and destroyed the Sith.

In general, I believe the Jedi's laws, founded after the final war with the Sith, are flawed. They were created from Fear, and are in direct defiance of the Force. In particular, the Emotions ban. You ever notice the strongest People engulf themselves in emotion? Or were raised outside the Order? I mean, it took Luke a few years to get where Anakin was after 13. They learn to control their emotions. The Jedi did not. So when the Jedi had emotion, they were vulnerable. The Jedi prior to the reforms largely did not fall. I mean, yes, people fell to the Darkness. But we are talking a handful out of 10 thousand Jedi, with a million chances to turn. An entire Sith order they could learn from, among others. The Jedi of the Clone Wars era had very few chances. Only a bare handful of teachers. Hidden teachers. And yet they fell one after the other. It was almost as though the Sith Lords could convert a Jedi without trying. Sidious even had the Gall to try Yoda. After Order 66, plenty of Jedi turned. How many turned during the first Purge? Their refusal to accept their emotion and attachment left them alone and unable to cope with this suppressed (Yes, Suppressed. The Jedi were wrong to think they could remove themselves from their Emotions. It isn't natural) emotion once the Sith got to it.

So, to sum up. The Jedi's ban on Emotion and Attachment meant they were vulnerable to the Darkness, and in the end had no one that they could truly count on. The fell like flies with little difficulty. The Older Order would have been ashamed to see the vulnerability of the New Jedi. And they would have been ashamed to see these so called servants of the Force become such emotionless drones. The Force is the embodiment of Life. Diversity is the Spice of Life. There was not Diversity or spice to the Order. No colour. Just.. slaves to their rule.The Old Order was much more diverse. And much more powerful.

This is all from my personal views of the Force. Perhaps Disney will ruin it by crafting an absolute view of the Force. I hope not. But this is how I see the subject, from how I see the Force.

 

anakinfansince1983 I dont understand this, the word was already starred out.

 

For the most part, sure why not? Just because Anakin was an over emotional idiot doesn't mean all of the other jedis are also over emotional idiots. I would like to think that there are at least a few level-headed jedis who can keep their priorities in order and still have a happy relationship. I mean if they could have friends why not boy friends or girl friends either?

 

My position is a bit mixed on this.

There's clearly a legitimate argument for opposing marriage within the order. Those type of relations can lead to making irrational decisions that could lead to the dark side. But...we have also seen people completely disregard this rule (i.e. Anakin Skywalker but let's be real...there had to have been others. Statistically he could not have been the only one).

I think there's a middle ground that could have worked. It seems the Old Order feared any real showcasing of emotion as if it was a horrible disease. This is just not a realistic, or sane, policy to have. I think promoting feelings of brotherhood or sisterhood would have benefited the Jedi Order. Obi-Wan and Anakin's friendship, for example, was not a negative thing imo. I think it promotes collective unity in the Order. Anakin went to many extremes in his relationships, sexual or platonic, but I don't think most Jedi would have this issue if it was allowed to be expressed. Jedi saw emotions and relationships as a taboo, dirty thing. That pushed those who had "fallen victim" to those feelings outside of the mainstream Jedi and thus isolated them. This, I think, creates a path towards the Dark side more then anything else (with the exception of a undying thirst for power and domination...which is a different issue completely).

I would also support allowing marital relations, tbh. The New Jedi Order seemed to function generally fine with it being a thing. But, definitely, allowing for some reasonable display of emotion (at a minimum) is a net positive for Jedi unity and ideological cohesion.

 

It isn't the love is a problem. There are two types of love; attachment and unconditional love. As Lucas states, Anakin confuses the two and this is why he becomes Vader. He becomes attached to Padme, as he did his mother and this becomes the problem that damns him. If he hadn't been raised by Shmi, he would have turned out to be more like Obi-wan than what he became and this is what Luke becomes in the end as well, because he understands the difference. Anakin is saved because Luke shows him unconditional love, which is compassion. Anakin causes Padme's death because of possessive love which is attachment.

Anakin always had the support of the Council, but he didn't follow the Code because Palpatine told him to essentially ignore it. Nor was the ideas wrong because Luke himself follows through on it, once he learns the difference between the two. Nor does the Council ban emotion. They stress that a Jedi must learn to let go of their fear, anger and hate because that leads to the dark side and to suffering.

 

I don't believe the problem was that he was over emotional, or an idiot. I mean, he had a vision of his wife, and possibly his unborn child, dying. What was he to do? Shrug and say, "oh well, best got get concerned with this?" I believe it was the overwhelming dogmatic approach of the Jedi, which meant the Anakin had no help when problems happened. The only help he had was "Just follow our rules". It wasn't his relationship that cost Anakin his light, it was the Jedi's dogmatic refusal to accept relationships, and their refusal to offer help to those who didn't already live by their flawed codes.

 

Then it's a good thing they don't actually have that policy (outside of fans taking one line of a poetic mantra literally) and have never been written as though they do. Lucas himself - the guy who invented the Jedi - said, flat out, in DVD commentary, that properly trained Jedi have learned to love others without losing their minds and causing suffering to themselves and others because they're control freaks who need things to last forever no matter what. (It's true they do not get married, because "together forever" goes against their belief that everything is impermanent, but that has nothing to do with whether they love, only how they love.) Anything else is something fans invented and repeated over and over until it became accepted as fact.

In what way do they not?

“Poor little Kaeden Larte,” said the creature. Ahsoka narrowed in on his location. “So hopeful that her Jedi friend would come for her. I had to tell her that Jedi don’t have friends. Jedi don’t have attachments of any kind. They’re heartless and cold and don’t even understand what love is.”

“I don’t know who taught you about the Jedi,” Ahsoka said. “But they seem to have left out a few things. You should ask for better lessons.” - from the Ahsoka novel

 

Be honest, not be greedy and not let fear control his actions.

Anakin lied to the Jedi. And the Jedi gave the rightful advice to him.

BS. The help they gave was the right one. Anakin should have trained himself against his fear of loss. He was living a lie and acted on fear.

 

I'm not concerned with what Lucas states. Love is attachment. He didn't have the councils aid. When he went to them, their response was essentially "this is our code, just follow it". When he went to Yoda, Yoda essentially told him to just return to the Jedi's code. That isn't help. That is conditional support. And Luke allowed marriage, and the attachment that follows. He was attached to Mara afterall. Enough so that he refused to hunt down Jacen for fear of given into his darkness. That is the key. It is about how one deals with the emotions they feel. Even Anger and Fear are natural and necessary to us. It is how we respond to them. Perhaps Hate alone is truly evil. Perhaps. Instead of teaching the Jedi to deal with the emotions, the old Order just tried to teach them to disregard their emotions. And for that, Jedi fell like flies to Darkness when The Sith came around.

 

No. No it is not. Have you considered that, perhaps, rather than Lucas being somehow wrong about the Order he invented, the problem is people's insistence on shoving the Western definition of a word where it doesn't belong? The Jedi are referring to what's essentially the Buddhist definition of attachment, which absolutely is not love.

Attachment is Anakin choking out his wife because he's a control freak and thinks, for half a second, she might leave him.

 

Greedy? Not wanting your loved one and child to die is Greedy? These are living being, not robots. That seems to be something the Jedi forget. He had fear because he didn't have anyones support. If the Jedi had actually been there for him, he would have had more then fear. But he didn't have them there for him. Unless of course he blindly went along with their dogma.

"Just follow our rules" is not the rightful advice. It's blind dogma. He would only have their help if he abandoned his views and followed their without question

No, it very much was not. Again, "follow our rules which defy the Force" is not advice. Saying "train yourself from fear of loss" is nonsensical. Basically, you are saying that he shouldn't try to save her because he's afraid she'll die. That isn't how the real world works. He was in every way right to be afraid his loved ones would die. The Jedi were wrong, not him. That is specifically why the Force destroyed the Jedi so entirely through Anakin. It wasn't Palpatine, or Anakin, or the Sith. It was the Force destroying the very order that defied the Force in favour of Rules and Procedures that go against the very nature of Life.

 

No, Love is attachment. And Lucas also said Greedo shot first.

Anakin choking his wife was the Dark Side. Created from Anakin feeling he couldn't get the Order's help, leaving him vulnerable to Sidious. The Order's Dogma, not his relationship, lead to this eventuality.

 

The only thing putting Padme in danger was Anakin himself. He personally caused her to die. Had he followed their "nonsensical" advice, this would not have happened.

It literally is not. Lucas says, at length, what definition of attachment Star Wars is using. To misunderstand this is to misunderstand one of the most basic concepts he is attempting to communicate to the audience in the PT.

EDIT: I mean, I'm not saying he's the most amazing scriptwriter or that he's good at conveying things in the clearest and most concise manner possible. But he has made it very clear what the Jedi are about nonetheless, and put a lot of his time and energy into doing so. To refuse to understand that is on you.

 

Yes, greedy. Hence why he had to lie.

It's greedy to want to be a Jedi and have a family.

Yes, they are. So what?

When? How?

No, he had fear because he was greedy and let his attachment affect his judgment.

When weren't the Jedi there for him?

They were always there for him. And he was the one who accepted to be a Jedi. So yes, it's expected that he follows the Jedi way. Otherwise, what would be the point? Anakin was the one who lied to them.

Again with the BS. Pay attention to the advice the Jedi gave him. Anakin was not honest with the Jedi and despite that, the advice Yoda gave him was exactly what he needed to hear. Not what he wanted to hear. He wanted someone to feed his greed and fear of loss, like Palpatine ended up doing.

No, it isn't. But then again, that didn't happen.

Wrong. Save her? Who? Anakin didn't say. Either way, Yoda is saying that as a Jedi he shouldn't let his attachments and fear of loss cloud his judgment and make him suffer. He should accept death as a natural part of life and not try to defy nature.

It's exactly how the real world works.

He has every right to suffer the consequences of his actions.

In opposite land, sure.

What the...?!

 

Personal attacks? Where? I don't do ad hominem. I didn't offend anyone. He stated something that didn't happen, therefore it's a lie, aka BS, which I called out. It's not a opinion, nor interpretation nor a matter of preference.

If you want to discuss this further PM. But if you just tone down your responses, this will be the end of it.

 

You should care, because this is the story.

"This is obviously a very pivotal scene for Anakin because this is reuniting with his mother and his youth and at the same time dealing with his inability to let go of his emotions and allow himself to accept the inevitable. The fact that everything must change and that things come and go through his life and that he can't hold onto things, which is a basic Jedi philosophy that he isn't willing to accept emotionally and the reason that is because he was raised by his mother rather than the Jedi. If he'd have been taken in his first year and started to study to be a Jedi, he wouldn't have this particular connection as strong as it is and he'd have been trained to love people, but not to become attached to them. But he has become attached to his mother and he will become attached to Padme and these things are, for a Jedi, who needs to have a clear mind and not be influenced by threats to their attachments, a dangerous situation. And it feeds into fear of losing things, which feeds into greed, wanting to keep things, wanting to keep his possessions and things that he should be letting go of. His fear of losing her turns to anger at losing her, which ultimately turns to revenge in wiping out the village. The scene with the Tusken Raiders is the first scene that ultimately takes him on the road to the dark side. I mean he's been prepping for this, but that's the one where he's sort of doing something that is completely inappropriate."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"The scene in the garage here, we begin to see that what he's really upset about is the fact that he's not powerful enough. That if he had more power, he could've kept his mother. He could've saved her and she could've been in his life. That relationship could've stayed there if he'd have been just powerful enough. He's greedy in that he wants to keep his mother around, he's greedy in that he wants to become more powerful in order to control things, in order to keep the things around that he wants. There's a lot of connections here with the beginning of him sliding into the dark side. And it also shows his jealousy and anger at Obi-Wan and blaming everyone else for his inability to be as powerful as he wants to be, which he hears that he will be, so here he sort of lays out his ambition and you'll see later on his ambition and his dialogue here is the same as Dooku's. He says "I will become more powerful than every Jedi." And you'll hear later on Dooku will say "I have become more powerful than any Jedi." So you're going start to see everybody saying the same thing. And Dooku is kind of the fallen Jedi who was converted to the dark side because the other Sith Lord didn't have time to start from scratch, and so we can see that that's where this is going to lead which is that it is possible for a Jedi to be converted. It is possible for a Jedi to want to become more powerful, and control things. Because of that, and because he was unwilling to let go of his mother, because he was so attached to her, he committed this terrible revenge on the Tusken Raiders."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"The key part of this scene ultimately is Anakin saying "I'm not going to let this happen again." We're cementing his determination to become the most powerful Jedi. The only way you can really do that is to go to the dark side because the dark side is more powerful. If you want the ultimate power you really have to go to the stronger side which is the dark side, but ultimately it would be your undoing. But it's that need for power and the need for power in order to satisfy your greed to keep things and to not let go of things and to allow the natural course of life to go on, which is that things come and go, and to be able to accept the changes that happen around you and not want to keep moments forever frozen in time."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance. It's easier to succumb to evil than it is to be a hero and try to work things through on the good side. Evil is inherently more powerful—it doesn't have the burden of worrying about other people. What Luke sees in Darth Vader at the end of ROTJ is something that I thought was worth understanding: the idea that Darth actually was a very good person. Except he's slightly more powerful than other people and when you get into that situation, your ability to do evil is much easier to come by."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"When you get down to where we are right now in the story, you basically get somebody who’s going to make a pact with the Devil, and it’s going to be a pact with the Devil that says, 'I want the power to save somebody from death. I want to be able to stop them from going to the river Styx, and I need to go to a god for that, but the gods won’t do it, so I’m going to go down to Hades and get the Dark Lord to allow me to have this power that will allow me to save the very person I want to hang on to.' You know, it’s Faust. So Anakin wants that power, and that is basically a bad thing. If you’re going to sell your soul to save somebody you love, that’s not a good thing. That’s as we say in the film, unnatural. You have to accept that natural course of life. Of all things. Death is obviously the biggest of them all. Not only death for yourself but death for the things you care about."

--George Lucas, “Star Wars: The Last Battle,” Vanity Fair, 2005

"I have what I call two sharp "right turns" in the movie and they are very hard to deal with. For the audience, it's a real jerk, because you're going along and then somebody yanks you in a different direction. Anakin turning to the dark side and killing Mace is a very hard right, because we're dealing with things that aren't so obvious. The audience knows Anakin is going to turn to the dark side, but the things that he's struggling with are so subtle that it may be hard for people to understand why his obsession to hold onto Padme is so strong.

Showing how much Anakin and Padme care for each other is one of my weak points. Expressing that is hard to do. It's really hard in the end to express the idea, I'm so in love with you that I would do anything to save you; I'd give up everything -friends, my whole life- for you, and make that real-make that stick-and say it in two minutes. When I created it I knew I wanted two hard right turns-it's designed to be that way-and I knew I was taking a real chance that it wasn't going to work. But you have to see if you can make it work. If it doesn't work, well then I'm going to get skewered for it. But if I can make it work, it'll be neat. It'll be good."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith.


"You almost come a second too late. You're rushing over to make sure that nothing happens-but your anticipation is that they're going to hurt each other. When the lightning starts things are going from bad to worse from your point of view. And when Mace is going to kill him, you have to act.

Try and increase how uncomfortable you feel as the shot goes on. Try to think back on the Darth Plagueis story-run that through your head. Take it one step further: you realize that by telling the Jedi about Palpatine being a Sith that Padme is going to die. Basically, you just killed her."

--George Lucas To Hayden Christensen, The Making Of ROTS.

"The Jedi are trained to let go. They're trained from birth," he continues, "They're not supposed to form attachments. They can love people- in fact, they should love everybody. They should love their enemies; they should love the Sith. But they can't form attachments. So what all these movies are about is: greed. Greed is a source of pain and suffering for everybody. And the ultimate state of greed is the desire to cheat death."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 213.

"It's about a good boy who was loving and had exceptional powers, but how that eventually corrupted him and how he confused possessive love with compassionate love. That happens in Episode II: Regardless of how his mother died, Jedis are not supposed to take vengeance. And that's why they say he was too old to be a Jedi, because he made his emotional connections. His undoing is that he loveth too much."

--George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine Interview; June 2005.

"It really has to do with learning," Lucas says, "Children teach you compassion. They teach you to love unconditionally. Anakin can't be redeemed for all the pain and suffering he's caused. He doesn't right the wrongs, but he stops the horror. The end of the Saga is simply Anakin saying, I care about this person, regardless of what it means to me. I will throw away everything that I have, everything that I've grown to love- primarily the Emperor- and throw away my life, to save this person. And I'm doing it because he has faith in me; he loves me despite all the horrible things I've done. I broke his mother's heart, but he still cares about me, and I can't let that die. Anakin is very different in the end. The thing of it is: The prophecy was right. Anakin was the chosen one, and he does bring balance to the Force. He takes the one ounce of good still left in him and destroys the Emperor out of compassion for his son."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 221.

"The film is ultimately about the dark side and the light side, and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. The issue of greed, of getting things and owning things and having things and not being able to let go of things, is the opposite of compassion—of not thinking of yourself all the time. These are the two sides—the good force and the bad force. They're the simplest parts of a complex cosmic construction."

--George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 1999.

In the end, what motivated Anakin was his own greed. His desire to play god because he wanted to stop people from dying, which is why he fell. He has to be willing to sacrifice his loved ones in order to become a Jedi and save the universe. He can save Padme by simply doing nothing at all, because in his efforts to save her, he winds up killing her.

That no longer counts. Jacen fell because he was greedy and gave into his fears, anger and hate. Because he had a daughter. Luke ultimately let go of his attachment and felt compassion in the end. Which Jaina did as well when she killed Jacen. She let go of her attachment to her brother and killed him. Anyway, I'm referring to Luke in TFA. He has no family of his own making.

 

A thing that to me often gets overlooked in this discussion is this,
If a Jedi leaves the Order, he or she does NOT loose their Force powers.

If the marriage and children ban is to prevent Force users from falling to the dark side because they will react badly if their loved ones are hurt or killed.
Then how can a Jedi, former or not, be allowed to marry?
If any Jedi will react with violence and hatred if their loved one is killed, then a membership of an order will not make any difference.

A Jedi that leaves the order, they still have the Force, the power, all of it.
Sure they don't have the duties and what not but if their loved ones are put in danger, they could react badly. Like Anakin did. And they could give in and turn to the dark side.

Take Anakin, say that he directly admitted that he married Padme just after AotC and left the order.
Would this have meant that he would NEVER have turned to the dark side?
I doubt it.
If he got those dreams about Padme, I think he would still have wanted to stop them from coming true and thus he could have done all matter of bad stuff if he thought that he could stop it.

People have compared the Jedi with super heroes, like Superman.
But if Superman just retired and married, he wouldn't loose his powers.
That was the plot of Superman 2, true enough.
So if we go by that, a Jedi can only marry if they loose their powers.
But leaving that aside, a retired Superman with all his powers, if his loved ones were put in danger or hurt, he could react badly.

I have asked this before and the answers I got was just, "The jedi order trust that their former members will still follow the rules and handle their emotions."
But to me, this ban says that the Jedi order DON'T trust their members to be able to marry and be able to handle it.
If they did, they would not need to ban it.

The only way this makes sense is if the Jedi can somehow Force-Neuter someone if they leave the order.
That they do an operation that reduces their Force powers a lot.
Now they can leave and marry.

The midis could work here, that the Jedi inject some sort of drug that reduce the number of midis in a person and thus they loose their Force powers.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

Correct. Ahsoka is still able to function much like a Jedi, but also states that she is no longer a Jedi either.

Anakin's vision of Padme dying is the result of his obsession with becoming all powerful and in turn, a result of his mother's death. If he had quit before the war and did nothing to participate, then his desire for greater power would be curbed severely. Palpatine's only alternative would be to force a situation that would result in Anakin starting down the dark path a different way.

In "Superman II", Clark stops being Superman because Jor-El tells him that he cannot be Superman and Clark Kent and be with Lois. He would have trouble dedicating his life to Lois, if he is busy saving people as Superman. So when he gives up his powers, he does so with the intent of being normal. Then he realizes that his father's enemies are on Earth and have taken over, because he was thinking with his heart and not his head. So he goes back to being Superman and gives up his relationship with Lois. Likewise, in the comics, there was a story where the Joker had poisoned Lois and set up a scenario where he could save her, but Clark would have to kill him in order to obtain the cure. Batman figures out that it is a ruse and manages to stop Clark from killing the Joker. Lois dies shortly after, but her heart starts up again. Bruce reveals that the poison was non fatal and was the Joker's way of getting him to kill. So even when active, Clark is tempted by his attachment to Lois.

In most situations with the Jedi, only twenty have left and we don't know how many ever got married and had kids, when they left. Ahsoka, who was not a full Jedi yet, did not form a family and continued to serve, but in a different manner. The Council assumed that Dooku would do the same when he left the Temple, after the Battle of Naboo. Indeed, when he resurfaced a year before the Clone Wars began, Dooku had appeared to be sans family and was as normal as possible.

The fact that so many fell to the dark side during the war with the Sith and even later on with Ben Solo, indicates that it is wise to take preventative measures. Attachment issues also happen without being married, as noted by having an attachment with Obi-wan and Ahsoka.

 

But s/he will not have any of the juridical powers that a Jedi has, making any attempt to cover up harder or using that power and/or her/his socio-political powers to help family members.

Also any marriage s/he enter will not (supposedly) bind the order to the partner and/or her family in any way.

 

I think Jedi not marrying and having children would breed Force talent out of the population, over time, as Force talent seems to be inherited.
Sure, sometimes Force-sensitive children come out of parents who are not Force-sensitive, like Anakin came out of Shmi (and the Force itself as his father, we are led to assume).
Still, there would probably be more Force-sensitives in the galaxy in the long term if people like Obi-Wan, Mace and Qui-Gon had children.

 

But the juridical powers are not what people generally talk about with regards to the Jedi. It is their Force powers.
And they keep those.
And juridical powers, senators have that and they are allowed to marry, see Bail.

So that can't be the reason.

The danger to the jedi are the emotions involved in marriage and children, caring about them too much and possibly reacting badly if they die or are hurt.
The Jedi forbid attachments, like having a wife/husband or children.
The Jedi that are taken in are not even allowed any contact with their parents because of the danger.

So how can the Jedi allow ex-Jedi to have all those things they say are so dangerous?

Open question to you all.
Say that the country you live make a new law that is like the Jedi rules.
Marriage and having children is forbidden.
You can sleep with anyone you like but you can't marry them and any children resulting from such a union are taken away and raised by the state.
The reasoning behind this law is to reduce domestic violence, such as spousal abuse and violence towards children. And that the children raised by the state have much less risk to become addicts or criminals and are in most ways model citizens.
If you want to marry or have children, you have to leave the country.

You might say that this is pushing it but remember, the PT Jedi are taken in at a very young age and have no say in that. They can leave sure but doing so means leaving the only home, family and life they have ever known. And doing that would not be easy.
And they have no family to go back to, they might not even know who their parents are.
And could a young Jedi, say age 12, really leave the order?
Are they legally adults and able decide this? Do they have to wait until they are 18?

If only 20 Jedi have ever left/been kicked out of the order over 25 000 years then leaving is either very hard or the Jedi training is very close to perfect.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor