Should John Williams have won the Oscar?

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Jaina02, Mar 24, 2002.

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  1. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    Poor JW... he deserved it for Phantom Menace too.

    Thought:
    If you get nominations for Movie A and Movie B in the same year, and win for Movie B, would you start wondering what made it better than Movie A?
  2. Cindé of Naboo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2000
    star 4
    I LOVED John Williams' score for Harry Potter. The more I listen to it, the more I realize how intricate it is, in spite of its deceptive simplicity. But...I also LOVED Howard Shore's score for LOTR. It is sweeping and moving, intense and powerful. I think they both fit their respective movies quite well. Am I allowed to like both?

    I haven't yet heard the score for A.I. I don't doubt that it was also excellent. So what can I say? I think John Williams deserved the Oscar, but I also think Howard Shore did, and John Williams has won an awful lot already (and deserved every one, of course). So it didn't bother me that Howard Shore won. If anyone else had beaten John Williams, though, I would have been furious. ;)
  3. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    I loved Horner's "A Beautiful Mind" score
  4. maestrino Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2000
    star 4
    Hm.. I'm very glad John Williams didn't win for Potter. Even apart from the issue of so much of it sounding rehashed, it was just TOO much. It's supposed to be magical, yes, but I don't think the point of Harry Potter's magic is to pick it up in your hand and smack someone in the face with it and say LOOK! this is magic!! I mean the opening sequence for starters, where Dumbledore was putting out all the lights - way too overdone and in-your-face music in my opinion. I used to love John Williams... what happened?? The last score of his that I enjoyed was Angela's Ashes.. :(

    As for LotR - I think it DID deserve to win. Although I must admit the first time I watched the movie I wasn't very impressed with the score at all! Perhaps cos I'd been building up high expectations for it, but also because it just struck me as really quite harmonically simple.. repeated sets of chord changes over and over, and the occasional melody that didn't sit quite right. But after 4 more viewings its grown on me a bit.. ;)

    Still. I think the film music industry at the moment needs a bit of a kick up the bottom. Its all a bit too much the same for me. I wouldn't mind seeing it take a bit of a different direction soon.. some new approaches or something...

    //end rant//

    (sorry bout that guys) :D
  5. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I used to love John Williams... what happened??

    I'll tell you what happened. The man is a genius. All you people who have problems with the HP score seem to forget one small, but crucial thing. Harry Potter is a film for CHILDREN! For proof of this, just look at the extras on the DVD release. The lights at the beginning are the first showing of magic in the film, so for kids, a "in your face" cue at this point is entirely appropriate. As for the chess game (my favourite cue in the whole film incidentally), 95% of the kids who went to see the film knew what was about to happen, cos they'd read the book. Again, the "overdramatic" cue here is entirely justified for what is a film for kids

    John Williams has done himself a great service with this score. I know a lot of kids who all loved the film AND the score. John Williams has opened up his work to a whole new generation. He has done with the HP score what he did for us in 1977 with the SW score.

    And with the re-release of ET, the younger generation will experience possibly his finest work.

    You know how we can judge a film before it's released if we see JW's name in the credits? Well, thanks to HP, that legacy will continue
  6. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    You know how we can judge a film before it's released if we see JW's name in the credits?

    Huh? ?[face_plain]

    I guess the problem with the chess game, which was easily one of the worst-scored scenes I've ever seen Williams do, lay partly in the directing. The scene should have focused on the strategy of the chess game, but instead it was just a bunch of loud crashes and explosions. Man, that scene was atrocious. I don't remember exactly what it was like in the book, but I'm sure it was way better than that--like with almost the entire movie, I guess.
  7. IAmTheDarkSide Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2002
    star 4
    Williams' scores this year had NOTHING on LotR...which isn't saying much because I didn't think LotR was "all that" either. It was just a relatively weak year for soundtracks.
  8. halibut Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    You know how we can judge a film before it's released if we see JW's name in the credits?

    I mean that JW is amongst the "elite" of composers and wouldn't want to put his name to what he would consider an inferior project. Maybe it's just me that does that, but I am more likely to get excited about a film if I see that JW has done the score

    the chess game, which was easily one of the worst-scored scenes I've ever seen Williams do

    Well, seeing as I have exactly the opposite viewpoint, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree

    I don't remember exactly what it was like in the book, but I'm sure it was way better than that--like with almost the entire movie, I guess.

    I agree. The book is infinitely better than the movie (except for Alan Rickman. He's brilliant)

    Williams' scores this year had NOTHING on LotR...which isn't saying much because I didn't think LotR was "all that" either.

    On the contrary, that says a great deal. If JW's scores had nothing on LotR because you felt Shore's score was phenomenal, that that's fine, but you are stating that JW's scores had nothing on an "not all that" score, which makes JW's absolutely awful. That is certainly not "not saying much"!
  9. The_Cloaked_One Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 27, 2002
    star 3
    I have come to the conclusion that the Oscars are rigged. John Williams and the Ian McKlellen (spelling) guy form Lord of the Rings were by far the best in their categories. I dont want to take anything away from teh winners of the respected categories, I just think the Oscars dont want to give it to the obvious winner anymore. Williams should have won and if he doesnt for AotC, then I will make a website that is anti-Oscars (lol no I wont). So in conclusion, JW was screwed out of an Oscar.
  10. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    Besides the Harry Potter movie, which I thought was below average, Williams has also scored The Lost World: Jurassic Park, which most people would agree was not very good.
  11. dolphin Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 1999
    star 4
    I think the individual listener is the ultimate judge. I don't really care what the critics think. I enjoyed the Lost World score. Unbreakable was another under recognized great score.

    :)


    God bless all of you
    Jesus loves you


  12. Jeff 42 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 14, 1998
    star 5
    I meant that most people would agree TLW was not a good movie. I can't judge the score, as I don't remember it well enough, having only seen the movie once.
  13. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4


    LOL, the thread is about Should John Williams have won the Oscar and we end up chatting about the Lost World.

    That's actually a pretty good score, but as someone else pointed out on the boards one time, it's a score that has music that is custom made for action and situations, not so much the characters. That makes it different from a LOT of John Williams other scores. But as always, he did what was APPROPRIATE. While it's not one of his stronger scores, if another composer had done something of that quality they would probably be thrilled.

    Regarding the Oscars, I only wish everyone could've won. Williams did genius level work on A.I. and a great job on HARRY POTTER, but I think it was Howard Shore's turn in the limelight and for recognition.
    Williams has had a career that will be remembered for the ages, has lots more ahead of him, has been nominated more than any other human being and won FIVE times. And we'll always have the A.I. and HP scores to remember.

    Congratulations to Howard Shore on his breakthrough award for LORD OF THE RINGS.
    Right now I'm listening to THE BREAKING OF THE FELLOWSHIP, a fine track.

    May they both live long and prosper, both Mr. Williams and Mr. Shore. :)
  14. Rebel-3000 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2002
    On the topic... The FOTR soundtrack is great, I bought the CD and have heard it 100 times, same goes for the A.I and HP soundtracks. Out of the three movies, I liked A.I. the most... but can't decide which of the other two I liked more. Sure, FOTR was amazing, but HP made me feel like a kid again.
    As for the soundtracks, Howard Shore did a surprisingly good job. With John Williams, it is to be expected that the music will be great, no matter what, but Howard Shore's scores up until now have seemed a bit generic, although I loved the Dogma soundtrack, although simple, it went well with the movie. But the FOTR soundtrack was grand and epic. I believe he deserves the award, but I enjoy the music from HP and A.I. more than FOTR.

    "Williams should have won and if he doesnt for AotC, then I will make a website that is anti-Oscars"
    If you don't, then I will. I've listened to the AOTC ST and I seriously doubt anything could ever top it (except for perhaps ep3).
  15. PaDmE-GuRl Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 8, 2002
    star 3
    My only gripe about HPSS is that all it did was repeat the same theme over and over. LOTR was deserving of the AW, but I wanted it to win best pic also! D*** the Acadamy!
  16. Imrahil2001 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 28, 2002
    star 1
    I actually think the FOTR score is quite childish and needlessly "hip" in parts--that is, it borrows heavily from people like Hans "Casio Keyboard" Zimmer.

    It was mostly just banging drums, blaring noise, crashing cymbals, and screeching sopranos. Mostly incidental music.

    I bought it, I've listened to it. THere are maybe 15 minutes total of the thing that are even worth my time. The rest is:

    "Long slow drone of violins...creating a "scary" mood; suddenly: Drums! Cymbals! Shrieking! Scary!"

    Bah.

    I'll take Harry POtter any day.

    Ims
  17. Wesmin7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 29, 2001
    star 3
    I have the Harry Potter sound track, John did an exilent job on it, as he has on so for so many movies. Also he was conducting the Pit Orcasta at the Oscars. He deserves at least an Oscar...
  18. Roland of Gilead Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    star 1
    Nope. Howard Shore definitely deserved it. I loved the FOTR soundtrack. And while I think John Williams is the best movie composer ever, I didn't think either AI or Harry Potter compared to FOTR musically. Expect Williams to get snubbed next year for AOTC too. I'll be surprised if he even gets nominated for it, since the academy clearly despised TPM so much. I hope it gets nominated, based on what little I've heard, but I'm not holding my breath.
  19. CountDonut Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Howard Shore deserved the oscar for one reason.... "Concerning Hobbits" . Any song which uses a harpsichord is cool! It was a style of music which I have not had the occasion to hear in a film score.
  20. DarthHomer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2000
    star 5
    I think FOTR deserved its win this year. Of course, TPM should have won best score in 2000, but those ******* didn't even nominate it! I hate them so much :mad:

    Sorry you guys had to see that.
  21. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    Eh, they were all mediocre scores 8-}

    I don't really like Howard Shore's score, but I do think it was one of the better scores of the year (certainly better than Beautiful Mind or Harry Potter).
  22. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    Williams' scores this year had NOTHING on LotR...which isn't saying much because I didn't think LotR was "all that" either. It was just a relatively weak year for soundtracks.

    Sorry. A.I. is NOT weak. That score is brilliance from Williams. It does not sound ANYTHING like his usual work. Monica's theme is gorgeous and classic Williams. The swirling "Abandoned in the Woods" cue is simply awesome. From beginning to end, A.I.'s score is Oscar winning material.

    Harry Potter is good and fun. But it is simply rehash of E.T. meets Hook. And too much Hedwig's theme. Definately not Oscar material.


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