ST Kylo Ren's Future/Fate. Death/Redemption/Other?

I think you are arguing with the wrong person. I didn't say anything about Leia having gas, as I am not 14. I simply said that something like this kind of involvement in Ben's life would have to be discussed on-screen for the benefit of the 90 percent of the audience that isn't going to read Empire's End. I don't think Ben being bothered by Snoke in the womb is the kind of minor plot point we usually get from canonical novels. If this incident is a small hint for diehard fans who read the novel as a precursor to a larger conversation about it in the film, then so be it. I am just saying that if, as it seems, it was Snoke all those years ago already screwing around with unborn Ben, that's something too important to be mentioned in a novel and never explored on screen.

 

I tend to agree that plot points tend not to be revealed in novels. But others are trying to assign no significance to the interaction (ie, Leia has gas.) But this isn't an enormously huge reveal. Leia already pointed out in TFA that Snoke was there "from the beginning."

Superficially this appears to be an innocuous Force-based interaction between mother and son. But put in the greater context (and in good storytelling, there is nothing written without purpose) it connects another dot to make the reader who knows about Kylo Ren's present wonder how it all started.

In all seriousness, how could a powerful darksider reach someone as protected as Ben Solo? This may answer a very important question without the giant neon signs. It's subtle. But also keep in mind, this book is released in the same year that TLJ is released, so the timeframe between hint and reveal is less than a year. Something of this magnitude would have have been revealed so far out as the release of Bloodline. It would have to be something to plant a seed for hard core fans to just put on the back burner that may enrich the reveal that is to come in December.

It reveals nothing shocking other than a hint that Snoke was there since the beginning. It doesn't delve into how and why Ben ultimately fell as a young adult.

But to write it off as nothing, when there was so much hinted about dark shadows and a distressed unborn child is silly.

 

I can see both sides. The question is, did they need to kill EVERYONE off in order to get the point across? And for some, the answer is no (and that's not an unreasonable or unfair opinion to have). And for some, the answer is yes (ditto). It comes down to personal tastes. There is no right or wrong answer here.

 

See, we do agree on that. It would be highly significant. I am just saying that I would expect to hear it mentioned on-screen, and the mention in the book serves as a hint. We'll see. Maybe just saying 'Snoke was there all along' will suffice without making a more explicit point. It does seem like something Leia might say to Luke if the two do in fact meet, as has been rumored.

 

I have a feeling there will be a very concrete reveal in TLJ that will answer everything once and for all. As for this? It's a subtle hint that helps connects dots. It definitely has some significance.

 

Darth Vader's son was able to pull Vader back from the dark side. Kylo Ren's father was not able to do that for Ren. I'm guessing Leia's not going to be able to do that either, at least not in Ep. 8. If neither of his parents can redeem Kylo then that leaves it up to Luke or Rey.

As far as we know Rey doesn't have any past relationship with Kylo or at least any memory of it. Even if her memories come back to her and she learns that Kylo is her brother or cousin her first impression of Kylo is still going to be that he's the dude that kidnapped and interrogated her and killed Han right in front of her. All of that is to say I don't think she's going to have a lot of motivation to redeem Kylo.

So that leaves it up to Luke. I could see Luke attempting to redeem Kylo but I don't know if Luke was close enough to Kylo to get through to him emotionally all these years later. I could see Kylo viewing Luke as an obstacle in the way of Kylo's path to greater power which would make him less susceptible to being pulled back to the light side. Letting the light side in means letting the pain that he's inflicted on others in. Kylo wants to avoid that as much as possible.

All this is to say I think Kylo will remain evil.

 

Also, Pablo says that people who were reading that Snoke was reaching out to Ben in the womb from several vague passages were reading too much into it.

In the Thrawn Trilogy, Leia complained about the twins kicking around in her stomach and how she had to use the Force to calm them down, and they weren't being influenced by a Dark user.

 

That is my take as well. It ties in with Leia's somewhat cryptic dialogue in Ep. 7 about Snoke's influence on Ben that will have more significance after we get more of the story in Ep.8.

At any rate, there was some kind of disturbance going on with Ben in utero. It seems to tie in with some of what we saw in Ep. 7 like mind probing Force abilities, so I think it does foreshadow something.

 

Yes, but the Thrawn Trilogy is no longer canon, right? And Leia doesn't appear to be using the Force to calm Ben down this time.

No one's saying that in-utero kicking automatically means Dark Influence...but Empire's End certainly hints at something nefarious and Leia's concern.

 

Well someone was saying that for storytelling purposes no one would ever put a detail like that in there unless it served a greater purpose. So I was saying in the Thrawn Trilogy they put that detail in there and it wasn't to hint that Jacen and Jaina were being manipulated by an evil Force user. It was just to show Leia's experience with pregnancy and her Force bond with her children.

Like Pablo said, I think people are reading too much into things.

 

yeah but it's not the kicking that is the point... the points are leia said she became aware snoke was watching always and pulling kylo towards the dark. and in the aftermath quotes we have lines like "who is watching us?" while at the same time the baby is in pain. there's also the line that he's troubled by something she can't yet see. and we know the dark presence called to the emperor and not to vader (from aftermath), which is to say it can choose who it calls/interferes with.

 

also, does anyone have a link to this? i remember finding it a long time ago and now i can't find it. (hopefully it's not in this thread and i completely failed to notice...)

 

I think Jedi Jessy posted in either in this thread or another a while back.

 

Pablo also said don't take tweets--even his own--too seriously.

In other words, he isn't confirming nor refuting anything through a tweet. People think he's going to reveal spoilers by asking him questions on twitter.

To quote the great philosopher H. Solo: it doesn't work that way.

 

Pablo confirmed Jyn wasn't Rey's mom and that Rey was left on Jakku years before Luke's massacre months before Rogue One and Bloodline. So yeah, I'll trust in him, especially when probably Pablo knows more about Ben Solo than Chuck Wendig (I'm not saying that Chuck was wrong but maybe he didn't have intention to make this topic in his book so deep)

 

If Kylo is killed what type of big bad do you think they'll have in Ep. 10? Will they be somebody who is already part of the First Order or do you all think it's more likely to be some new outside force to be reckoned with?

 

Whether Kylo gets killed, redeemed, stays evil or whatever, Episode 10 will likely have a new antagonist to lightsaber-clash with the new heroes anyway. I only hope the next one is not another Skywalker and not in any way associated with another Empire rebirth or destroyed the last Jedi order.

 

Why not kill-deemed?

 

I'd be okay if he turns back if and only if there is something for him to do later in the story. I'd rather that happen in VIII than in IX. Other than that, he should die in IX. He should be the one to kill Snoke, if in VIII, to become Supreme Leader or if in IX, either as a hero or as a villain seeking to rule. If he isn't Supreme Leader by the middle of IX and is still a bad guy, he should die for sure.

Besides Snoke, I'd be okay if Rey kills him, possibly in the path to darkness herself, or maybe Leia. I don't know what good Luke killing him would do, but I'd like to see Kylo kill Luke and or Leia. Maybe even Finn or Poe could die at his hand. Rey shouldn't be killed by Kylo though.

 

gonna repost my idea for this thread where it really belongs:

the best way to end kylo's arc is that he isn't killed and he isn't redeemed, at least not fully. during the final battle, kylo's hand is severed by rey (intentional mirroring). but it is at this moment kylo finally acheives his goal; he is as powerful as darth vader. rey is being overwhelmed by the knights (or something else if they really are just throwaway henchmen) while finn is tortured by snoke. in my head finn kills snoke, but kylo allows it or maybe assists in it. with snoke's death kylo can let out all the anger he held back. he goes on a dark side rampage, assisting rey in eliminating the remaining combatants. with snoke gone he finally has peace of mind. he calms down, and finds out that leia witnessed the whole thing. he breaks down, apologising for killing han as he grasps at his wound. he begins to back away. leia says "i can't just let you go." kylo pauses, and then continues running as nearby buildings begin to collapse. he is never seen again, and the audience can decide for themselves what he does next.

this is a half thought out example of how they can do something interesting with kylo and not just go for the death or redemption arcs. leaving it partially unresolved i think is the most emotional way to go.

 

Kylo will come back to the light and Rey will go dark.

 

Would Kylo being redeemed be such a good thing? Besides being a retread of Vader (yes, I know he's a Vader fanboy, but because of what he did as a Sith, not his redemption), is killing Han Solo something he could be forgiven for? To me, keeping Kylo on the dark side makes more sense. He's not that powerful in TFA, as he can't fully control his hate and anger, so in the next film we know he's going to get more training and seek revenge against Rey.

So my vote is kill him off as a Knight of Ren

 

Dude, can I as a fellow poster ask you to drop the all bold, please. It keeps making me think it's a mod post and is a bit distracting. K thx.

 

Weeeeelllllllll, if I go by recent Star Wars stories on the small screen, one option is that he will just look like he died but will somehow come back.

Examples:
Maul
Ashoka
Clones not dying of old age even though they should as they had accelerated aging
etc.

So maybe he looks to die and kill Snoke either to redeem himself or to gain more powah. Only to show up again.