ST Kylo Ren's Future/Fate. Death/Redemption/Other?

We're in a bloodthirsty mood today so "Kill him! Butternut him in lava! Die! Die!"

(Google spell check? You went with butternut?)

 

PURE SPECULATION:

I initially thought that Kylo would be redeemed at the end (with Ep 9 mirroring Return of the Jedi in that Vader is redeemed by his son's love and Kylo would be redeemed by his mother's love. With Leia gone, this would be more challenging to achieve, of course.)

Now I am starting to think this may not be the case because of the Arthurian parallels (Rey's "drawing the sword from the stone/snow" scene, the cross-armed light sabre, etc.) If they follow the Arthurian themes to their natural conclusion, then the nephew, Mordred, and his uncle, Arthur, kill each other. It may just be possible that they draw on this to have Kylo and Luke mutually kill each other.

 

OMG...Luke and Ben, Arthur and Mordred....

WAIT.

Mordred was Arthur's son...with his sister...

*curls up in a ball and cries a little*

 

LOL! Let's not go there.

 

This...family...is...SO...screwed...up!!

Oh Skywalkers, never change <3

ETA: WAIT AGAIN. Maybe they haven't? D

 

i'd initially thought kylo wouldn't be redeemed because he's not darth vader. luke puts it all on the line for vader and vader won't kill him. han puts it all on the line for kylo, and kylo kills him.

but there's another parallel, from ROTS. padme's death (and vader believed he killed her - and really in my mind he is responsible for her death) resulted in vader becoming darker. it was a crime of passion; he couldn't control his anger. kylo's murder of han was not an accident, it was pre-meditated and as much as there was a lot of conflict (even kylo didn't know what he would do up until he did it imo), it was deliberate. if he is opposite vader, he won't go darker because of it. instead it will be what ultimately motivates him to go the other way.

i currently think kylo could go either way.

 

That's a VERY interesting parallel!!

 

ANOTHER SPECULATIVE IDEA OF MINE:

I keep thinking of Kylo's struggles as a Star Wars parallel to Calvin's notion of "Irresistible Grace":

https://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/piper/irresistable.html

In this case, Kylo wants to be evil like Grandpa Vader but he is being drawn to the light side by the will of the light side itself against the leanings of his own would-be evil will. Likewise, Rey is drawn tto Luke's lightsabre even though she wishes to resist the calling as well. Ultimately, she finds her fate in taking hold of it. The light side is proactively influencing events. Can Kylo continue to resist the light side or will it prove irresistible to him as per Calvinist theological theory?

 

another one is that after anakin turned he immediately became a threat to those closest to him. he nearly kills padme and she does die as a result of the confrontation. he also tries to kill obi-wan. and these things aren't just because his new master told him to kill off the rest of the jedi. he has ambitions to overthrow his new master in fact, just as soon as he can.

after kylo turned he didn't go after his parents it seems (what happened between luke and him though remains to be seen...) he is much more dedicated to his new master it seems ("the supreme leader is wise") and may not have had ambitions of overthrowing him right after his turn (though that too remains to be seen). he spent possibly 5-6 years in the darkness but doesn't go after his family. in fact, snoke must task him with killing han. and i think that one of the reasons it is backfiring on him is because it's not truly what he wanted and he still had love for his father.

eta: well, correction, a little over half of him did want it since he went through with it. he believed it would drive him into the dark and end his torment (no light = no torment over hurting others) and the worst part of him believed he would gain greater power through the act. but i think that the truest part of himself (the part he is trying to destroy) didn't want it. and there is still an ends justify the means piece to this that i can't put my finger on. i know kylo wants power because he's a coward deep down and is afraid he isn't strong enough, isn't enough period... but he has something at least resembling a cause that remains to be explained.

 

I haven't seen it posted in discussion of the first trailer, but it might have been. A very brief image from the trailer appeared to me to be the crushed Vader helmet from Kylo's quarters. To me this would appear to be significant for foreshadowing of Kylo's possible redemption in IX. Given how the novelization portrays how he felt when he killed Han, I have a feeling that Kylo may be the central young protagonist of the sequel trilogy when all is said and done. After all, we know he is a Skywalker and Rey might not be.

Thoughts on the helmet from the trailer?

 

Are you maybe thinking of Kylo's crushed helmet? I remember that being clearly visible in the trailer, but I have no recollection of Vader's helmet. When does it appear?

 

Merged threads

Also, yes, it's Kylo's helmet.

 

I voted other, but I'm not sure what the other might be. Maybe that's why I'm not a big time Hollywood screenwriter. I don't want to see Vader redemption part 2 for Kylo, but I don't want to see him killed off too early either, because he's such a great character and Driver's one of the most talented actors to grace a SW film.

 

I have seen nothing in the structure of TFA, what we know of TLJ thus far, or anything said in other official sources to suggest that Kylo, and not Rey, is the protagonist of the ST.

Anyone can feel free to cite sources that say otherwise if I've missed any.

 

http://thelegalgeeks.com/2017/06/18/darth-vader-on-trial/

Discuss.

 

I figured it's relevant to the prospect of a "Kylo is redeemed and survives the ST" endgame.

Went over better than my stand-up comedy routine at my cousin's sister's uncle's roomate's wake, though.

It could always be worse, I suppose.

 

My prediction: Moana us to Te Fiti as Rey is to Kylo


...minus the nose nuzzling.

I quote:
"I have crossed the horizon to find you
I know your name
I may have stolen the heart from inside you
But this does not define you
This is not who you are
You know who you are"

Word.

 

I'd kinda like to see that.

 

Neither. We haven't even seen what Ren is capable of.


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Did today's EW article basically telegraph Kylo's redemption? I have 2 thoughts on Mark's use of the phrase "chosen one":

1) Luke came across the same prophecy the old Jedi knew that a chosen one will come and bring balance. Perhaps Luke now understands this prophecy could be a cyclical occurrence. Not unlike GL's idea of the Force being unwell as whomever brings balance corrects the "sickness" of the dark side taking over. Thus, Luke assumes his nephew is this occurrence. After all, he'd been right before, right? But the prophecy never said there couldn't be more than one chosen one. Meaning Rey AND Kylo will bring balance (thus that "connection" they feel for each other).

2) Mark's choice of words is figurative. He sees the FS son of his best friend and his sister as the fruit of their harvest for their sacrifice in the OT. A child born out of the great love in this family, the legacy of Anakin's redemption, The Great One, The Next Big Hope, The Skywalker Torch Bearer, The Skywalker heir, Their "Chosen One"... This is how Luke felt about Ben Solo. HE was Luke's life's work. He put everything into that kid to be the cherry on top of all their accomplishments. And the kid just annihilated all of it. This is exactly what Han said in TFA. That's what crushed Luke and blew up his parent's marriage. Luke's instincts that served him so well, the instincts that brought his father around may have led to Luke seeing Ben with rose colored glasses. Ben's betrayal, combined with the other things Luke may have learned in his "Jedi research" (what if he learned how big the force is but sees no one cares about that in His galaxy travels) may have crushed his beliefs beyond repair. And then idealistic Rey shows up...

I feel worse for Luke now more than ever. He was successful after ROTJ but he may have put all his eggs into the Ben Solo basket. But what if Luke wasn't wrong? Again. Ben is capable of bringing balance, but it's going to take Rey's input and efforts to turn Kylo back to Ben.

I also just realized, there would never have been a Jedi massacre 2.0 if not for the Vader lineage reveal. I'm sure Ben was double dipping with Snoke by the time the Vader reveal went down in the Senate. But. I'll bet, Ben never expected to fully break with Luke. He may have remained a double agent if you will. But the Vader reveal was the catalyst, the straw breaking the camel's back, for Kylo Ren. Perhaps the massacre was Kylo's message to Luke, and his parents, for his being betrayed with the "lies" of Anakin Skywalker. They had told him he was the heir to Anakin's legacy as The Greatest Jedi of All Time. So he went and showed them how much Anakin is really in him. Showed them the true nature of the Skywalker family, the power of the dark side, yada. Luke may have paid a heavy price by selective memory/fibbing to protect the name of Anakin Skywalker with the galaxy and, more importantly, his nephew.

Fire, you see? Mustafar. I'm telling you fire is Kylo's calling card, his ace of spades.
.

 

if Rey is a random, the more stupid would be a redemption of Kylo through her. It has to be family like Leia, Luke or Han and not a random scavenger girl. Only redemption by family makes sense.

 

Rian Johnson seems to dole out harsh punishments.

I would guess that he would get a fate worse than death and redemption.

 

Interestingly, if Rey is Kylo's cousin, she's the one family member he has who Snoke hasn't convinced him to loathe and resent. Hrm.

 

Not to mention, Rey is the first female central protagonist of a Star Wars trilogy. Many people (including myself) would be livid if they took that from her and gave it to another white guy.