ST Kylo Ren's Future/Fate. Death/Redemption/Other?

I follow you. I'm just being self-deprecating, cause pain and rage are things I'm well acquainted with.

 

yeah but vader had to let go of his anger and hate in order to save luke. it was an act of selfless love, not an act of rage. and in his case it was a sudden revolution of his entire spirit back to the light - love not hate. hate and rage are the dark side and those consumed by them hurt themselves and others (do evil).

 

When I think Redemption for Kylo Ren, I'm not talking about the Force. I'm talking about building understanding and forgiveness, with Rey and everyone else. If it can be established that Kylo Ren was brainwashed and puppeteered by Snoke, it can be a chance of them teaming up, an assembly of dark and light to fight Snoke.

 

This whole deal with the Dark/Light that's occupied six films - all the signs are that that's not the biggest issue any more. "It's so much bigger", the arrival of two super-users - this is more than Jedi vs Sith.

 

well i mean i personally am of the opinion that the light and dark are both necessary... as is a balance between them... but i don't know ofc how it is so much bigger yet... but it may spin the ST out of the standard kill or redeem question that is this thread, idk.

i mean if both sides of the force are being rebooted through rey and kylo to me that seems like opening a rich fertile territory for more stories and star wars relies on the conflicts between light and dark so we can continue to have "wars".

 

The problem with the "balance" thing is that, they're not even closed to being balanced right now. And even if they do managed to give Kylo the "sympathy" that so many seen to see, the scales are still not even close to being balanced between them anyway.

Also the difference between Kylo and Vader is that we've already SEEN Kylo do more horrific things onscreen than Vader, and Vader never killed a character nearly as beloved as Han Solo in the OT either.

Also having him be brainwashed would be a really lame way to go honestly. It instantly makes him far less interesting imo.

 

i agree brainwashing is lame.

also Thrawn082 i don't know what balance between them would even mean or to what purpose. i guess i'm thinking of it as defining how the light and dark work together. previously the balance was defined by jedi and sith - a lot of jedi and only a couple really powerful sith at a time. the jedi mistakenly came to believe the sith were gone and the sith waited in the wings for the right time to overthrow the jedi and eventually succeeded. the balance broke and the sith gained dominance. the chosen one came and righted it again.

so rey and kylo would be defining how it will work now kind of.

 

I think Kylo won't find full redemption, but he's going to turn away from being full on evil though too.

He'll end up in a murky middlish spot where he's not loved by the good guys, but he's despised by the bad guys and is full of self-loathing for what he's done and thus can't even forgive himself.

 

Kinda like Gollum?

 

Yes, a bit... but obviously without the split personality and being overall a disgusting creature to behold thing.

 

https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/918909108736081920

Later down the exchange, Pablo notes Star Wars has always featured controversial outcomes for characters:

https://twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/918924650167517184

 

No. The Skywalker of the story is not going to be like Gollum.

 

i think the issue is that redemption is a spiritual concept - so in christianity for instance god would be the authority on spiritual salvation - not man, man's morals, or the laws of man. every religion has it set up a bit differently but it's greater/beyond the worldly affairs of "man."

in buddhism i think kylo would have accrued a ton of bad karma that will land him in bad places for lifetime after lifetime (maybe he'd be reborn as a predatory fish in the deepest depths of some ocean where there is only darkness and not be reborn as something like a human for a million lifetimes - or maybe he'd be reborn in a hell realm, depending on the branch of buddhism). karma has to be worked off. so redemption would mean working it all off. i mean i think anyone can attain enlightenment but it's really difficult to do so. but i'm sure it would technically be possible for a horrible person to attain in the same lifetime in which they are horrible, but it would just be even more unlikely because people damage themselves with the horrible things they do and can drive themselves to such a place of darkness they can't find any way out.

although in the words of sookie stackhouse, "god doesn't punish. god forgives."

 

Ma boys Pabs & GL!!!

 

It seems like the trailer shows Kylo leading the FO in the Battle of Crait, which is towards the third act of the movie. How does that change the odds of redemption, if at all?

 

It's not in the "pro" column, certainly.

Though revealing Kylo leading the FO charge on Crait would be a big spoiler to put in a trailer that teases his inner conflict. If the Supremacy is infiltrated/destroyed in act II, and Crait is most of act three, with the FO winning and Kylo entering the base, I suspect there's a fair chunk of the end of the film they haven't even shown to avoid spoilers.

 

I didn't compare him to gollum in the physical transformation sense. I compared him to Gollum because at the end of Return of the King he was both light and dark. Helping Frodo defeat Sauron, but at the same time not being able to shake off the darkness inside of him and his obsession with the ring.

Kylo ending this trilogy by being definitively back on the light side would be boring, because he was never fully on the dark side to begin with. Let him struggle with the light and dark for the entire trilogy. Didn't Snoke say he chose Kylo as an apprentice because he was equal parts light and dark?

 

That sounds hypocritical considering that Kylo killed the one man who would give him that family connection... his own father. It gets worse after watching the new trailer for the Last Jedi because we see Kylo in his TIE fighter attacking a ship where his mother is onboard. Kylo Ren is on his way at becoming the "Michael Myers" of the Star Wars universe.

 

i think kylo longed for certain things at certain times and didn't feel his parents were there for him. he felt abandoned. and all of this turned into a lot of resentment and rage. so with han at the end of TFA kylo may have felt like it was too little too late. there was a time to work it out years and years ago before he turned to the dark side and it never happened. by this point he is emotionally poisoned. yes he did it to himself--he did not manage his emotions well and likely indulged in them, just allowing them to spin into a massive storm of turmoil that at this point is too much of a mess to clean up. but at his core he was a boy longing for his family. and when he didn't get his needs met in the way he wanted he decided to turn his back on them (it's an overreaction but it is human).

 

I wouldn't mind if Kylo turns against Snoke and saves someone. Rey or his mother. It'd setup something we haven't seen in the OT. What would happen if Vader had survived? Having this guy on the right side of the war with all the things he's done and gone through. It'd set up an interesting dynamic for sure. Especially if Rey is family and she or Luke are with him throughout IX. Imagine episode IX opening with 2 trained Force users wreaking havoc. Would be so awesome to watch.

The flip side to this is that we're left with Snoke as the only villain, unless Luke or Rey go the other way and join him.

 

If Kylo's not killed what the heck would they do with the character after Ep. 9? Will it be as simple as taking Snoke's place as the leader of the First Order and then we get yet another film about the rebels fighting the Empire?

 

if one jumps into the future (if this were like 15-20 years later) there is sometimes a character in the story with a dark past lol. this character can be of help to the new heroes.

or if kylo retreated into the UR and ended up training people on the dark side, the current villain could come from that training.

i mean you need villains in stories and characters with a dark past can be useful in a variety of ways. it's okay to invent such characters, but why bother when you already have one? seems redundant.

anyway an example i keep thinking of vaguely is shepherd book in firefly/serenity. i actually think he had a "dark" past with the alliance that he never told anyone about the specifics. he had high level access in one episode and he was awfully insightful about the alliance enforcer guy in serenity. he knew such a man believes hard and he doesn't really ask why. shepherd book's entire path might be about how he had to transform his alliance radical beliefs into the beliefs we see him with in firefly/serenity. his dark night of the soul was a long time ago.

(just a few ideas)

 

He's either going to go into self-imposed exile or government-mandated banishment. Too fascinating of a character to lock up and throw away the key.

I'd love to see his future explored in novels (doubt we'll see Adam beyond IX.) I like the the idea of Shepherd Book comparison. He will never be 100% light. I'd like to see him as the morally ambiguous ally that helps when he's called. Honestly, I still love imagery of living like his namesake and becoming the quiet hermit on Tatooine, there to be called if needed.

 

I'd prefer if Kylo turned his back on Snoke over his mother. As a reflection of Anakin.