ST Kylo Ren's Future/Fate. Death/Redemption/Other?

It's all in Abrams hands now. What does he want? I guess he could get some voices at Lucasfilm saying that he really shouldn't kill one of the sequel trilogy's better characters, we're planning more movies with these characters (or vice-versa, the Skywalker saga is done), but he still is the director of the next film it's his character after all.

 

I think his only chance at redemption would be in death at the very end but I can’t quite work out how it could happen. I think Rian has made him a fascinating villain and I’d prefer him to stay that way until the very end.


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So, you guys think that Ben Solo was shown to deeply regret killing his father, to be tormented and torn, etc. And it was pretty much confirmed to have fallen because of Snoke's long-standing manipulation (confirmed by both Leia in TFA and Luke in TLJ !) and Luke's one cowardly moment of betrayal when he tried to kill his nephew in his sleep (without the boy having had done anything yet and most probably was Luke sensing Snoke's dark interference), Rey's words to Luke that he was deeply mistaken that Ben''s choice for the Dark Side was made, but it was not, and your guys conclusion is - yep, Ben Solo will not be redeemed and deserves to die.

Lol.

 

In short.. TFA - Kylo has a chance at redemption by Han. He turns him back and chooses the dark side (stabby stabby style). In TLJ - Kylo has a chance at redemption though Rey. He turns her down and and chooses a (one must admit, pretty sweet) career advancement and the dark side. So in Episode IX - Kylo will be offered a chance at redemption through ... ? .. I sense a pattern here.

Also: the ST is very clearly to me anyhow, meant to signal the end of the "mighty Skywalker midichlorian infestation bloodline. Kylo Ben is the last of the Skywalkers in IX. So..

EDIT: It was utterly tragic that Ben Solo was (I fully agree with this) Betrayed by his mentor and uncle Luke. I cannot tell you how much I hated writing that last sentence btw.. but the great tragedy now, is that once that mistake was made, Ben went down a path that he now seems hell-bent on pursuing.

 

How many chances does Ben get? At the cost of how many lives? He can actively choose to redeem himself, but it’s time of the heroes to stop trying to turn him. The ball is firmly in his hands.


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Kylo already had two unambiguous chances to come back to the light and in both times he made his case clear. Even the main protagonist failed. I would not wish this trilogy’s main theme to become the three chances to save a manchild, because it’s starting to become ridiculous.

If TLJ was the movie that would make me feel sorry for him and want him to come back, as many fans hoped – sorry, it didn’t work. It had to opposite effect. As a poster said in the Lit forums, Kylo "is the meanest villain of SW." He’s not just hellbent on his path to fascist ruler, he is also trying to destroy the past and everything we loved about Star Wars. Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, heck even the Millennium Falcon with Rey and Chewie inside! (calm down, boy!).

To me, TLJ did transform him into great villain to hate, but not one I would care about seeing redeemed in the slightest. He’s like Joffrey Baratheon at this point.

 

How many chances?! As many as he needs, that's how many.
And it is not Kylo Ren who deserves more chances - it is Ben Solo that does!

Why would Luke be given a chance after he spectacularly failed, and by the way he is yet to atone for failing Ben Solo and help to bring him back!

How many chances hotshot pilot Poe was given on his path to becoming a leader after he was responsible for the death of all the bombers, etc? Several.

How many chances was Finn given to find his place with the resistance instead of choosing to escape and run away? A few.

After knowing that Snoke had manipulated Ben Solo for years and was the darkness Leia and Luke saw in Ben and then Luke his teacher and uncle also betrayed him and attempted to murder him in his sleep which led to him becoming Kylo Ren, I think it should be obvious that he deserves to be given as many chances as he needs to come back.

"Failure can be a teacher" Yoda said. He meant it not only for Luke, obviously.

Also, "“Not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.” ...which also and importantly applies to Ben Solo.

So, he gets as many chances as he needs.

"Noone is truly gone."

 

A

And so then your villain is ..... ?

Hux?

 

Not that I'm really interested in IX, but please kill Kylo at the end. Noone needs this terrible character.

 

And here I thought people were against Ben Solo's redemption be a redux of Anakin's, and wanted something different, no?!

The bold move Rian made with having the throne room scene in the middle chapter instead of leaving it for a climax for the end of IX was to make a brand new thing. By killing Snoke that early he shifted things and made bare the true conflict. It is not outside forces that are our worst enemies or the forces that truly shape our destinies, it is our own weaknesses that make us make mistakes and are the true problem that needs to be confronted and dealt with.

In very good stories villains serve the metaphoric purpose of being the dark side of the heroes and not just be cartoonish mustache twirling evil bad guys whose killing at the end will solve everything.

(Obviously Vader killing Palpatine didn't solve anything, no?)

Ben Solo's worst enemy was and still is Kylo Ren. Now that he has eliminated "his true enemy" on the outside, Snoke, and confronting the other enemy he thought he had, Luke, he is left now with having to look inside and confront his true enemy - his own dark side.

That is what they are doing in the ST. It is the dark side inside of us that needs to be dealt with. The balance must be found on the inside in order to have it truly on the outside.

As Rose said, and I'll quote it again because it sums up one of the ST main messages well: “The war will be won not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”

The true real solution to this grand epic Skywalker Saga conflict is not let's kill all the bad guys and all will be peachy.

It is an epic fairy tale set in space.

So I will root for Han and Leia's son until he gets his head out of his cockpit.
Rey will help him do so, but it is he himself who has to do it.
That is why he gets as many chances as he needs to get there.

What we were shown in the throne room when Kylo offered to Rey to rule the galaxy together is basically a mirror to Anakin offering exactly the same thing to Padme on Mustafar.
Of course Rey would refuse it, just as Padme did and they use exactly the same words - "Anakin, don't do this" and "Don't do this, Ben", etc.
But Rey refused Kylo. She still knows Ben is still there.
As I am convinced that Kylo is a reverse Anakin, we are basically seeing things going backwards in the ST.

Ben is destined to come back to the Light and that's the positive message we need for the end of the trilogy and possibly to the Skywalker saga.

Outside dark enemies are hard to destroy, but the true enemies we need to confront are those which are within us and the darkness within ourselves.


The real conflict is Ben Solo defeating Kylo Ren. He needs help and support and Rey is already shown to be willing to help Ben.


P.S. Will Hux and Kylo Ren be at odds - oh definetely. They will continue to hate each other's guts and be rivals and will push their limits and it will probably lead to a rupture within the FO structure.

The FO military regime is enough of a threat to the Resistance and the "good guys" in the Galaxy.

 

One wish: Kylo Ren finally deserves attention of his grandfather, and Anakin's force ghost kills Kylo Ren and his knights in a rampage a la The Rogue One finale. JJA can do it properly.

 

I'm not feeling very hopeful about Kylo's chances of finding redemption. My feeling from TLJ is that Snoke got his psychic clutches into Ben too early. Even by the time Leia sent him to Luke it was already too late. The boy Ben was never coming home again, and now there is no home left for him to go to.

 

Again, at the expense of how many lives? How many thousands if not millions of people have not gotten a chance or will not get a chance because of Kylo Ren? Do they matter less than this one person, as sympathetic as he might be?

Even if he has been manipulated he has made many choices himself that led directly to mass death and mass destruction. After he killed Snoke and was, therefore, completely free of Snoke’s influence, he chose to go all in and attempt to obliterate everyone on Crait.

Again, he can decide for himself that his actions are wrong, but the heroes of this saga don’t need to spend another second trying to turn him. He’s been given clear choices, offered love and affection, offered several ways out and he instead doubles down.

It’s now time for the heroes to worry about saving the rest of the galaxy so countless other people have a chance at living without the threat of Kylo Ren.



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I have made a decision to not bother to sway or convince you or anybody else about where I think this is all going. I'm just stating what I see.
It was exhausting the past two years and almost all my speculations turned out true, so I'll trust my instincts again.

He is still worth saving. Not at the expense of millions who he BTW did not order killed in the first place (but whatever), but because there is still hope for him.

This is Star Wars at its core. Nobody is beyond being saved. And that there is always hope. You or others don't see it. That's fine. But I do. And the creators of these movies do as well.

 

(server problems, too many post)

 

Don't be silly, everyone knows the lives of those without the pure and superior Skywalker blood are less important. Haven't you been paying attention to the fandom? Let Kylo keep on keepin' on until he decides to stop slapping away every attempt to help him, his life is very hard you know and his feelings are very delicate. What's a few more lives of people who don't matter, compared to the tormented inner pain of a fascist manchild? Golly gee whiz, you guys.

 

On point here. I believe TLJ elevates Kylo as the big baddie of the trilogy in a way TFA failed to do.

Difficult to argue we deserves being redeemed after having killed Han in TFA, used Rey to overpower Snoke, and be willing to kill Luke, Rey and the entire Resistance on Crait. In fact, had Luke not been a projection, he would have killed Luke.

 

Kill him and grind his bones into cat litter.

 

It should be pointed out...the Force Bond...people were thinking was a good thing...was literally a trap set up by Snoke to snag the unwise and unwary...and it worked.

http://collider.com/the-last-jedi-reys-parents-explained-rian-johnson/

I think one of my favorite parts in this film is listening to Kylo Ren trying to 'Neg' Rey to his side. "Oh your parents sold you for beer, you have NO place in this story....you're only worth is that you mean something to me." I couldn't write a better 'scum bag' male trying to bind someone to their side via Negging if I tried! Rey yanking the Lightsaber into her hands felt like Justice for every single person that's had their flaws and insecurities picked at by people seeking to exploit them for their own gain.


http://ew.com/movies/2017/12/17/star-wars-last-jedi-spoilers-snoke-killed-theories/2/

I'll grant him this, Kylo is no longer a Vader Wannabe, and he clearly has his own hang-ups...but that scene of him facing off against Luke...it's like all the crazy came rushing out a once. Even his combat stance made him seem like an Ogre. It's Naked agression against focused serenity...and focused serenity wins...handily.

Rey has a LONG way to go before she get's anywhere near Luke's level....however Kylo's issues will make him easier to take down if she and her friends keep their heads on straight. Heck Hux might already be planning to put a blaster bolt in Kylo's back, so his control of the First Order could be shaky going forward.

You know what...I don't want Kylo Dead....I want him stripped of the force, forever barred from being 'Special' again and thrown into a prison where he can rot for the rest of his days. Let him see Rey building a New Jedi Order. Let him see Poe forging a new galactic government...and let him see Finn leading regular people in protecting their homes and worlds from Raiders and remnants of the First Order. No swift death for Kylo Ren...let him see the galaxy recover and move on without him...and his special bloodline.

 

TP

 

I have a feeling this story is going to make people feel very sympathetic towards Ben Solo in IX, but that's it's going to be a sad story in that not enough of that person is recoverable. Really the ST seems to be a story about how Leia and Han lost their son to a child predator, who could undoubtedly bridge his own mind and Ben's since he connected Kylo's and Rey's minds so easily. By the time Leia figured out she needed help, Ben's mind was already too poisoned. He acts like someone far younger than his years because he actually never grew up. He is as he says, a monster. So I think IX will end with Rey killing Kylo but it's not going to be a moment of vindication, but a moment of great loss, not in mourning for Kylo but in mourning for Ben, the boy who never grew up.

 

The movie seemed to say pretty absolutely that he's past redemption. Leia, his own mother, realized it. Luke even realized it. As much as I disagree with the way luke's character was written, his response to Kylo's "are you here to tell me you forgive me? to save my soul?". His facial expression was perfect when he told kylo "no". In other words, we're past all of that. The final nail is rey's expression when she shuts the door on him. She tried, but he chose his own path. Not sure there's anything special between them, especially given the fact that their "bond" was fake to begin with. All three force characters acknowledged that ben is gone. Even the so-called sympathetic backstory cast him as a little scumbag who was hanging out under his uncle even though he'd already embraced the darkside.

 

He is very interested in Rey but more interested in ruling the galaxy which I predict will lead to Rey killing him in episode 9. It would be nice if he could get redeemed though. I really like his character and I don't want him to die.

 

Both Ben and Rey had visions of joining one another. I bet they are both accurate, from a different points of view