ST Kylo Ren's Future/Fate. Death/Redemption/Other?

Excuse me, but I was not addressing the issue of redemption as a whole. I was responding to his mockery of Luke and Vader's redemption and why it was clear to me Luke couldn't be the one to save Ben. I made no mention of Rey. I do think it is likely she will turn him since she is the main protagonist and they have a strong connection but I never said it would be simple. So your condescending "it's more complicated than that" when I was replying to a specific thought about Luke and Ben is neither warranted nor appreciated.

 

If what you meant was “Luke was a catalyst for him turning to the dark side in the first place. A person who hurt him is not who can save him” then I misunderstood you and stand corrected.

ETA: And agree.

 

Same. On a related note I wonder if we'll learn that Kylo actions have been driven by a feeling that he needs to do these horrible things more so than a feeling that he wants to do these horrible things, i.e. he killed Han not because he hated his father but rather because Snoke made him think it would end his internal conflict. I'm wondering if that's the way it's been for Kylo from the beginning? Perhaps something triggered a darkness in a young Ben that followed him around like a devil on his shoulder and Snoke convinced him to give into that devil? That still doesn't answer what caused Ben to fall in the first place though.

 

The only actual “clue” I’ve found thus far (at least, it seems like one to me) are the scream and yell Luke seems to hear when he looks into Ben’s mind. (I take it he got whatever visuals went along with that.) I don’t think we’ll learn Ben deliberately did something horrible, but I could imagine - perhaps? - Snoke manipulating Ben into doing something, and Ben feeling terrible guilt over it?

Ofc “guilt” as the driver (no pun intended) of Kylo wanting to “kill the past” is very speculative, but imo it would help explain why Kylo’s trying to do that.

 

JJ will have his own answers, but I see Kylo as a kind of drug addict who began drugs to deal with some kind of personal issue and now those drugs have that person in their grip, but they don't see it. Trying to kill the light within and therefore the conflict by flooding it with darkness, then the darkness becomes an end in itself.

 

I can definitely see Kylo’s darkness self-perpetuating, yeah.

 

Where's it written that the Skywalker Saga will continue beyond Episode 9?

 

Yeah, I mean Luke's Force read of it was that Snoke had already "turned his heart" before the fateful night, so Ben Solo/Kylo Ren was already on the dark side when Luke considered ending it then and there. Whether he could've pulled Kylo away from the brink had he not taken out the saber we'll probably never know, but I think it's too simplistic, all things considered, to assume that Kylo would've been avoided his dark path had Luke not briefly given into fear.

So did Han, for that matter. (I really feel that, having played the "even his father couldn't bring him back" card, I'm not sure what else you can do to bring him back, but that's beside the point here.) It's also interesting given that in the tie-ins have also dealt with the idea that Kylo holds a dim view of compassion; TFA novelizations show Kylo learning that Rey cares for Finn in the Takodana mind-reading scene and scoffing at the idea of harboring a "weakness" like that. TFA junior novelization also adds that Kylo can't understand why Rey didn't kill him after defeating him in the forest, the worst possible explanation to him being that she pitied him. The TLJ novelization has Kylo wondering if she chose not to kill him again (after he was knocked out by the lightsaber splitting in half) was out of caring about him -- and that it would be the last mistake she made (so much for him not meaning it when he told Luke he'd kill her).

The only other thing that seems to be driving him is his conflict between the dark side and the light. However, he consistently resolves that by going deeper into the dark side (killing Han to end his being torn in two, finding resolve by killing Snoke and taking his place as the dark sider/dark overlord of the bad guys, etc.), so I'm not sure how that would help. Correct me if I'm wrong, but all his stated motivations have centered around being the best dark sider possible, so it would seem to take a heckuva writing job to reverse that. People do change, but usually gradually, not at the flip of a switch.

Having seen the movie again, I really think that she just saw Kylo rising against Snoke and miss-read that betraying Snoke was not automatically the same thing as his repenting.

It will be interesting to see how Episode 9 answers all these questions.

(I apologize to the moderators about the double posting; I use tabs a lot and failed to realize that I had opened the same page twice until after posting the second time.)

 

I don't really want to see a redemption because I don't like the idea of Episode IX mimicking Episode VI too closely. Maybe I'd be happier if a non Force user like Hux was somehow redeemed, though I doubt it would really happen. Maybe the Knights of Ren could turn on Kylo, assuming they appear in the movie at all. I don't know. Just throwing out some random ideas, I suppose.

 

That's interesting. I've seen pretty much all major Dark Siders as being under the influence of drugs metaphorically. Darth Vader definitely fits the description.

 

I am not taking this as granted, that's why if used the IF in my original post. Certanly it is a possibility, given the fact that it has been the big theme in all SW movies prior to the Disney acquisition.

Having said this, I would assume one possible scenario is closing the Skywalker saga with IX, stop using the roman numbers, but leave the door open for further adventures without the Skywalkers (Kylo dying in IX) but with the ST heroes as the leads. This would be some good 8 years after Episode IX.

I don't know, I don't find any of these scenarios I am describing silly at all.

 

I think there’s an element of that. I think that one of the nEU comics even suggests this.

But while DV seemed a slave to the DS, Kylo is portrayed as “conflicted,” which sounds to me like he still has free will and is conciously choosing to act in evil ways despite having the option Vader no longer (to a large extent) had.

And yet, that makes his deeds even worse, imo, and I’m not sure that was the actual intent. It might become more comprehensible once we learn more about why he fell and what’s currently driving him to try to destroy the past.

 

How did Vader no longer have free will? He made the decision to throw Palps down the reactor & save Luke in ROTJ.

 

Fair enough.

I'd agree it's possible, but I'd also counter that the post-Disney movies seem to be really presenting the idea that Star Wars is more than the Skywalker story (with R1 being about new characters, the sequel trilogy having non-Skywalkers as the leads, etc.).

That might the official plan. As I recall, Kathleen Kennedy has gone on record that they want to do more stories about the sequel trilogy characters and, so far, no announced plans for another Saga trilogy. Personally, while I'd like to see the sequel characters go beyond Episode 9, I think that Episode 9 should be the end of the Saga movies.

Agreed.

 

I would say they have already surrended one big commodity, which is the Skywalker surname. No one will be named Skywalker in the potential future saga movies. They have also move themselves a bit to a corner with Kylo who, even when redemption might still be possible, it would be hard for a part of the fandom to like him as the father of the future hero.

So maybe it is time to close it as is, since fans seem pretty ok with non-saga movies and with the ST lead not being a Skywalker herself.

 

Anakin killed Palps. He'd returned. He killed Vader too (from a certain POV)

 

Luke effectively staged an intervention on Vader in the throne room.

 

It's interesting to see that the majority of voters here want Kylo Ren to be redeemed. This is just my gut reaction but I feel like when people talk about Kylo on this site they mostly complain about him so at least to me it feels like most people don't like this character. If this is really the case than that means most people want to see Kylo redeemed even though they ostensibly don't like the character in general. Obviously there's almost no data to back this up but that's my takeaway.

Do most people who want Kylo redeemed also want him to live or is there a preference for him to die shortly after being redeemed?

 

Neither, Supreme Leader Kylo Ren should live on and reign for the next 25 years.

 

I can speak for myself, that if Ben returns to the light, I want to see him live on. We haven't seen someone return to the light and have to deal with the repercussions of their prior dark actions. It would be new and different. Having him return to the good side and then die five minutes later is just a repeat of Vader.

 

He probably dies in Rey's arms.

 

That’s where I’m at too. Having him live and beginning his journey to being a better person would gave us some potentially cool new storylines.

 

If redeemed, live. If not redeemed, live. I want his character to live on....

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

I want him redeemed, but I think I could live with what you propose. It would make the post-ST comics and novels VERY interesting.