Discussion Should Luke be single, married, divorced, or a widower?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: The Force Awakens - Spoilers Allowed' started by newdawn12, Apr 21, 2013.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Samuel Vimes Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2012
    star 4
    First, you seem to have missed what my original point was, namely that IF RotS Anakin was given the means to save Padme but it would either cost him his relationship with her, so he would loose her anyway, or it would cost him his life. All I said was that I wasn't sure that Anakin would pay that price, that's it. I didn't say that he 100% wouldn't or that he 100% would. I simply said I wasn't sure either way.

    I based that on my assessment on the character of the adult Anakin and that he was a somewhat selfish person and that his own needs and wants was more important than what other people wanted. That if the price would be loosing her anyway then he might not be so eager to pay it.

    The movies NEVER showcase a situation where Anakin is put in exactly that situation, like having Palpatine say "I can save your wife but you will never see her again" or "I can save her but you will die as a result." So the films don't answer this question, so my perception is never proven wrong. What the film does show is that Anakin is able to do quite a number of horrible things for Padme, things he would know Padme would not approve of but he does them anyway. So it seems that he cares less about she wants than his need to stop her from dying.
    I contrasted this with RotJ Anakin who saves Luke's life even knowing that he will die as a result. To me, this showed growth and change in the character, that he had finally learned to let go of things, a problem he had in the PT. That the character of Anakin had come a long way from the angry, fearful and selfish person he used to be.

    Second, about intent. Lucas intended Jar Jar to be a funny character but I didn't laugh or find him very funny. Mostly I had a hard time understanding what he was saying. I wasn't nearly as annoyed as others were but I found the character to be a bit of a waste and the time spent on him could have been better spent elsewhere. Does Lucas intent overrule my reaction? No. Whatever Lucas intended doesn't matter much compared to how the result came across to me. Otherwise, if the director says that he has made the best film of all time then it must be so, other opinions do not count.

    Third, about Anakin. I am fairly sure that Lucas didn't intend Anakin to be as unlikeable, rude and selfish as I found him to be. But that was my reaction to the character and that is based on how he comes across IN the films. I am not going to like a character just because the director says "You are supposed to like this character". I like/dislike a character based on what the character actually says and does in a film.
    Example, in LotR I like book Frodo more than film Frodo, who I think is a bit one note and comes across as weak at times. But my like of the book version of Frodo doesn't affect how I view the film version. Likewise, I liked film Boromir far more than the book version. But again I judged the film character on how he came across IN the films, not the books.

    Fourth and lastly, Lucas is a writer/director of films and has made six Star Wars films and those films I have seen and I judge the events and character in those films based on what actually happens IN them. If Lucas wants me to know that Sifo-Dyas really ordered the Clone Army then put that in the movie. If Lucas wanted me to know that Anakin wanted to be a Master so that he could learn about Sith holocrons, then put that in the movie. I don't give credit to things not in the movie, because it wasn't IN the movie. Simple as that.

    But lets leave this discussion as it is like a train without wheels, very soon get nowhere.

    Bye for now.
    Old Stoneface
    fishtailsam likes this.
  2. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    It is inductively in the movie, and the induction can be validated by the book, that is the whole point; it is not a coincidence that the movie implies one thing and the book objectively confirms it.

    But I think it is unanimous that this conversation should end.

    Luke will be single, and we won't know anything about his love life. In the novel of episode 7, however, he will just go by Tatooine once a week to those shady bars to solicit anonymous alien prostitutes with 4 hands like Obi-Wan did (OK, maybe not....).
  3. Debbie_Skywalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2013

    Hmmm . . . VERY interesting spec. I like it! That could make for a very interesting storyline for Luke's child/children, and even for subsequent generations of Skywalkers in Luke's part of the Skywalker bloodline. And Han & Leia's children, obviously, would have far different experiences to those of their cousin/cousins, because they wouldn't have the same kind of pressure put on them almost from birth to "continue the Skywalker legacy" and to strengthen the ranks of the Jedi. They could do their part to do just that without the intense scrutiny. And I still like the idea of Leia becoming a Jedi, even if she is only a brand-new Jedi Knight at the start of Ep. VII . . . like maybe Leia, too, takes a long time to decide to train . . . just as her children do. But maybe it is watching their mother become a Jedi that encourages the children to follow in her footsteps and join the Jedi Academy as well.
  4. Debbie_Skywalker Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2013
    True. You're right. I recant my earlier statement. Honestly, I just wish that JJ Abrams WOULD actually use at least SOME of the "EU" material, as it's been written, because I honestly think that those characters and plots . . . any of them, or a combination of a couple different ones . . . would be excellent material for Ep. VII-IX. And I like his idea of going on to make more SW films, films that will explore the origins of the Jedi Order and the Sith. I've read some good books from that era, too, and would like to see movies made that show some of the ancestors of the Skywalker line. *(And, yes, I know that Anakin was "The Chosen One," and his conception and birth parallels that of Jesus Christ/the Immaculate Conception, but Shmi herself was a Skywalker, and she was never married until after Anakin had left with QuiGon and ObiWan, so that's where the Skywalker "family name" comes from--from Shmi and her ancestors. It'd be interesting to see the stories of some of Shmi's ancestors, and to see them become part of the early Jedi Order.)
    Last edited by Debbie_Skywalker, Jun 25, 2013
    Trebor Sabreon likes this.
  5. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Shmi, as far as we know- inherited no powers- Anakin's powers are entirely due to his unorthodox creation.

    So, if she did have siblings, aunts, uncles, etc- there's no reason to believe they'd end up in the Jedi Order.
    kainee likes this.
  6. bluemilkcheesypuffs77 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2012
    star 2
    Divorcee, mara took him for all he's got. All she left him with was his bones...
    JediGirl_Angelina and kainee like this.
  7. gmoney8869 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    Does anyone else find the idea that Luke "has to have a son" or that "there has to be a hero named Skywalker" kind of creepy and/or offensive?

    Why does the hero need to be defined by their parentage, or even more bizarrely, by their name? Why does Luke need to have offspring to be a great Jedi, or hero, or teacher?

    I'd like Luke to either single or widowed, and not have any kids, at least not kids that are protagonists. If he has some kids that are just side characters, that's fine.

    Just looking at the the way ROTJ ended, Leia and Han being married with kids is the natural progression of their characters. If there's going to be offspring protagonists, it makes sense for them to be theirs. The natural progression of Luke's character would be to continue the study of the Force, and to rebuild the Jedi order. That should be the focus of his character, his legacy, and his primary impact on the ongoing narrative, should be his students, not his children. He is passing on his wisdom, which is far more meaningful than just his genes or his name.

    If I was the writer, I'd have the protagonists be Han/Leia's kid(s), and then just students of Luke, whose parentage is of no particular significance. An orphan maybe.
  8. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Exactly. Thank you.
  9. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    I care neither for the name Skywalker nor for a patriarchal chain. But I would simply like to see Luke with a wife and child because I like Luke and because I think a family could make him very happy. I'd also be interested how his life would be in this different situation. Hermit Luke on the other hand seems like a boring repetition of Obi-Wan.
    kainee and ChildOfWinds like this.
  10. Slash78 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2004
    star 3

    Except Old Ben knew the ins and outs of Mos Eisley very well, which calls into question the whole "old hermit" thing.
  11. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Bringing this one up again because of a scene I just read in Edge of Victory: Conquest that pertains to a married Luke reproducing himself:

    If Luke marries and has kids, please, please, please don't have his pregnant wife threatening to "vape" him if he does this to her again.

    Sweet Jesus, Mara...Shut. The. ****. Up. As I recall, a few books ago you were crying because you are afraid that you couldn't have kids. You got pregnant and now you're complaining about nausea and swollen ankles and blaming Luke because he's fertile? Please.

    It gets on my nerves when women ***** about normal pregnancy symptoms anyway, especially in a pregnancy they planned. (And yes, I have kids. They were planned. I did my fair share of swelling and puking but I accepted it as temporary and part of biology.)

    Star Wars doesn't seem to handle pregnancies very well, although I don't remember that much about Leia's pregnancy in TTT so I won't comment there. Padme was made kind of pathetic in ROTS as well.

    Please, Arndt and Abrams, if Luke has a pregnant wife, don't write her as a whiner or a damsel in distress. Make her a badass. Thanks.
  12. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Pregnant wife? How when Luke himself is over sixty? You think he married a twentyfive years younger woman?
    Darth Claire likes this.
  13. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    It has happened, and that wouldn't bother me nearly as much as what I just described.
  14. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Yea, but seems pretty unlikely. Mark would look even older if his wife is young and too good looking.
  15. Darth Claire Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
    Truth. I think they will probably make his wife his own age plus can you imagine all the "Hugh Hefner" jokes we will make if he's hooking up with some 20 year old. Heck our new heroes are in their teens-twenties so that makes it even worse!
    EDIT: which makes me feel bad for any red head *or any hair color to be honest* actress cast who is over the age of 40 cause I BET fans will instantly assume she is Mara no matter what. Even worse if she's like 30 or younger cause I bet two things will happen: 1. Fans will assume she's Mara's daughter or 2. Will assume she IS Mara in which case how is that possible if we're seeing Luke's kids in this (unless its flashback that is)
    Last edited by Darth Claire, Jun 30, 2013
    Darth_Pevra likes this.
  16. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I thought Mara herself was around 40 when she had Ben? I haven't looked at the dates that the books take place, but I remember that in the discussion that I referenced above from the early NJO in which Mara was worried about not being able to have kids, there was also some reference to her becoming "too old." If she's only supposed to be 30, that's going to piss me off. I had my kids in my mid-30s.

    I've got a general issue regarding the portrayal of pregnant women in general in the ST, if there are any, which I'll take to the female characters thread as I'm hoping you all are right about Luke.
  17. The Hellhammer Grand Judicator of the New Film Territories

    Moderator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    What if he adopts a child.
    JediGirl_Angelina likes this.
  18. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Back to the "lone wolf and cub" theory on that one maybe?
  19. The Hellhammer Grand Judicator of the New Film Territories

    Moderator
    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 5
    No idea about that theory, to be honest.
  20. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Agreed, passing on his wisdom as well as his knowledge of the Force.

    I like the idea of the Jedi as dedicated to a purpose in life, spiritually focused, mystical, powerful warriors when needed, working to keep the galaxy safe and peaceful; living a different kind of life than others in pursuit of this purpose. The sort of serious dedication that Yoda describes in ESB in his hut. I want the Jedi mystique to be maintained, I think it does a lot to carry the story. I want to see Luke carry on and rebuild the order, to see him as a serious and powerful older Jedi. It just makes sense.

    There is just no denying that making Luke a family man is a change of great significance, making the Jedi something they are not in previous movies. If we make Luke into Mr. Cleaver, the happy family man, that hurts the story for me, that is too much of an attempt to make some kind of All-American, swell and nice story to watch with Grandma while eating apple pie; I don't care for it.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  21. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Always thought Star Wars movies were family movies, something to watch with granny.

    I also think that a Jedi household would come with its own challenges. Grandpa was a Sith Lord and the galaxy is still full of dangers for Jedi. I don't think it would be about who left the toilet seat up or something. The heroes journey often starts in the mundane too. You can only really value home when you have seen all the strange dangers and challenges that lie outside of it.
    Trebor Sabreon and kainee like this.
  22. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I think that, fortunately, this is not the view of SW that the makers have, some new creation of a "Jedi household" (yawns). We will see n 2015.
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  23. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    You are correct, Mara was in her early forties. My aunt had a child just recently, she's in her mid-forties, and she took a whole ton of precautions. So Mara was actually kind of lucky to just have swollen ankles and be all puke-y.

    Also, as to your other post about her whining and threatening to vape Luke...I posted it in another thread, I think, but I think it was a joke. It's been about a year since I've read it, but I've read it several times before that and I'm almost certain it was a joke and she probably would have been more than happy to have more kids, given time.
  24. ScorpionJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 19, 2013
    star 3
    To answer the thread's question, I'd like Luke to be widowed with a son.
    Trebor Sabreon and kainee like this.
  25. Toonimator Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2006
    star 4
    But if you consider the previous movies, the Jedi in those were broken. So being a Jedi that is something they weren't in previous films would be in keeping with everything Luke's done so far... and as for "it just makes sense", so does Luke having a family of his own. He knows the Force runs strong in his family so having kids of his own would be a decent way to get some more Jedi in the mix; he might feel some desire to redeem his father a bit further, beyond the 'dark side/light side' stuff, would be to father a child of his own, raise 'em 'right', not abandon them for power or some slim hope of saving their mother or whatever.

    And, if Leia's gonna become a Jedi, too--which is far more 'important' a job for her than being a politician, as there's millions of politicians but precious few Force-strong beings to become new Jedi--then why wouldn't the old Jedi restrictions/lifestyle/whatever apply to her as well? Does she get a pass simply because Yoda & Obi-Wan didn't bother to train her? Or because she was already in a relationship?

    What's good for one is probably good for both, and while Luke was much more of a "Jedi" in ROTJ, he still wasn't exactly the stoic Jedi of the PT, or the "deepest commitment" type from ESB. Based on how quickly his training went, it seems logical that he could EASILY have time to find/train new Jedi AND have a family if he so chooses. The idea that he MUST remain childless is simply ridiculous; I know some would argue the idea that he MUST have children may be just as ridiculous, but him fathering children means even more potential Jedi to teach. "Pass on what you've learned".
    Last edited by Toonimator, Jul 1, 2013
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.