Discussion Should Luke be single, married, divorced, or a widower?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII - Spoilers Allowed' started by newdawn12, Apr 21, 2013.

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  1. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    How does not having kids turn Luke into an Obi-Wan 2.0? There is much more to Obi-Wan than him not having children.
    Bob Octa and anakinfansince1983 like this.
  2. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Good thing Disney made it clear they have the final say and not Lucas (and now JJ is their man). ;):p
  3. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    I'm still not following how a "sappy sentimental scene with Luke being a dear old dad" would be better than "Obi-Wan 2.0".

    Unless we're just talking about taste, in which case, agree to disagree.
  4. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    First off I said please dont , as in borrow too many themes from Obi-wan and implying lack of kids/love chief amoung them, not that it will make him Obi-wan 2.0

    However think about it. Both could be one of only a few Jedi left, completely devoting the rest of his life to training others in the force, now being the same relative age as Obi-wan, totally single, reduced to more philosphical debates (which Lucas said would be a bigger theme in the ST) just as Obi-wan devoted his final days to learning how to preserve his essence in the force after death, etc...

    Now to be fair, history never truly repeats itself since but themes and trends do repeat, if taken in that manner Obi-wan 2.0
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 28, 2013
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  5. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I cant change your mind... and Im fine with that. However I said "sappy sentimental scene with Luke being a dear old dad" has a wider audience appeal than "Obi-wan 2.0". Yes, I'd prefer it and believe it would be 'better' and yes, I know you disagree, however facts are we saw how negitavily people reacted to PT Jedi, so I stand by my argument general audience would prefer Luke being a father and Jedi at least now being allowed the choice of a family/marriage or not.

    Again, we both know PT Jedi weren't celibate... but it was precieved as such by many movie only fans.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 28, 2013
  6. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Where is your source on the audience reacting negatively to the PT Jedi? Seemed to me that Anakin was the one who got the negative reaction; I've never heard anything indicating that the "general audience" thought the PT Jedi sucked because they couldn't marry.

    I'm fine with this just being a variance in taste, that's totally cool; I really dislike the implication that "the 'general audience' agrees with me and therefore you are wrong," especially with no quantitative polling to back up that assertion.
    kainee, DarthBreezy and Darth Chiznuk like this.
  7. VanishingReality Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2013
    star 3
    My interpretation is that the order prevented Obi-wan from attachment with anyone. Even though he did develop feelings, he would deny the existence of those feelings due to his duty to the Jedi Order (This could be romantic attachment like Duchess Satine or just attachment for his fellow Jedi's lives). He was extremely self-sacrificing.

    Meanwhile Anakin's ignoring all warnings to get attached, and fear of losing people caused him to dark side and kill his wife. By contrast, Obi-wan would overcome the deaths of people he cared for without turning to the dark side. The cost was that he couldn't be close to anyone. Obi-wan and Anakin were like two opposite extremes, both very negative. (Too attached and too unattached).

    Because Obi-wan is in exile from the empire, he doesn't wind up with kids (Well, not just kids, also friends and any contact with anyone) which is a very sad lonely fate. If Luke is in some kind of exile, there's no way it could be as depressing or dramatic as Obi-wan's story.
    Last edited by VanishingReality, Apr 28, 2013
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  8. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    I think it's obvious that Luke will serve in a similar role as Obi-Wan (the mentor) but even if he has similar traits as Obi-Wan I still don't think that necessarily makes him Obi-Wan 2.0. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan serve the same role but are two totally different characters. As long as they stay true to who Luke is then I don't have a problem with him being unmarried, divorced, childless or homeless.
    kainee likes this.
  9. Sistros Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2010
    star 6
    so I stand by my argument general audience would prefer Luke being a father and Jedi at least now being allowed the choice of a family/marriage or not.

    ----

    to be perfectly blunt, I don't think the general audiance will care one way or the other, as long as it's a good story and that he has reasons (happy or sad) on why he is or isn't married,

    I know my first thought wasn't "ohhh I wonder if Luke is married!!"

    actually I tell a lie when I heard it was a sequal trilogy my heart sank when I thought of certain characters, like "she who shall not be named" being the dominant thought
    Last edited by Sistros, Apr 28, 2013
  10. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    They weren't allowed to marry because it would go against the selfless Jedi way of life. If one were to have a family, he couldn't take care of it while at the same time fulfill his duties as a Jedi. I would prefer that this concept from Lucas was respected, but since he still wrote the story for the sequels, if there is going to be a change it will probably be explained.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Apr 28, 2013
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  11. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Go read a dozen Attack of the Clones reviews, quite a few will rant about it. AotC was the first time this came up and too boot was the least well recieved movie, bad acting aside... most rants where about the script and what Lucas did and this includes the marriage angle. Yes, people 'got' that it would be to help with Anakins downfall but still most found it a stupid plot point.

    Even the followers of the Jedi religion dont follow that tennant of Lucas's and are fighting to allow their religion to legally marry people in real life. lolz...
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 28, 2013
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  12. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Eh, I don't care what people who follow the "Jedi religion" do. As far as AOTC reviews--depending on the site, I am reluctant to call any of the reviewers making those comments as representative of "the general audience." They could have just been soap opera fans wanting to see something similar on the Star Wars screen.
  13. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    One could interpret this as a cop out. :p
    DarthBreezy likes this.
  14. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Not a cop out... you only offered the bet to people in California so the cop out was yours :p Sorry but I live on the other side of the States pal. Next off, you really gonna remember the bet 2-3 years from now cause at the end of the day it will be till then till we truly know the answer. :rolleyes: Finally the prequals had EU cameos, so you'd be a fool to do this, especially since they aint George's characters anymore. However you wanna dance, Im game... nothing like easy money ;)
    V-2 likes this.
  15. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I really dislike the implication that "you know the desires" of all the reviewers of AotC especially with the dismissive nature you just dismiss a huge portion of them. We all know how poorly that film was reviewed and the countless rants about every detail of that movie yet, some how with a single comment you believe you can ignore all of them to support your opinion that you dislike Mara Jade and/or marriage/kids.

    Disney has already shown hints of trying to distance themselves from the prequals because they know how poorly those films where recieved. Disney doesnt run the day to day with Pixar, for example, but they do tell them to make movies that they can sell toys of... who's to say they haven't told LFL to distance themselves from the choices made in the prequals and make the movies more like the OT. And just maybe, make it about family again.
    Last edited by Ryus, Apr 28, 2013
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  16. appleseed Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2002
    star 4
    To be honest, as soon as I saw Luke in ROTJ I felt he was celibate and that it was good for him to be that way. Han got the girl, Luke had a higher purpose and a deeper place in life than that. So it never threw me in the PT that the Jedi were supposed to not marry, I had pretty much figured that out since ROTJ. And obviously I knew that Anakin doing so would be against their code and the major cause of his downfall.
  17. Aaronaman Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2013
    star 3
    Luke's character will be darker than his portrayal in ROTJ....he'll either have left his wife to pursue the Jedi Order or lost her through death, Luke will be the tormented sole in the new movies and having tragedy in his life will keep the idea around that he could still turn to the dark side.
  18. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Luke and the call of the Dark Side has already been done. It is called ROTJ. Please do something new!!
  19. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    "We all know"? Really? [face_laugh] I'm sure since "we all know," you can provide the quantitative evidence that I asked for as opposed to getting bent out of shape when I don't accept your vague claims at face value.

    Even if you are able to provide the proof that you are familiar with every single AOTC review, which you seem to be claiming with your statement that I am ignoring "all of them" (really? I haven't read "all of them" either, nor do I care to), it's going to take quite a bit more evidence to substantiate your claim that the main reason that AOTC got any negative reviews is because people were pissed off that the Jedi couldn't marry.

    If you want Luke to marry and have kids, fine, you're entitled to that opinion, but if you want to show that the "general audience" supports you on this and that I hold a "wrong" opinion that doesn't deserve consideration, you're going to have to do better than that.
    Darth Chiznuk likes this.
  20. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    Yes, 'we all know'... a simple metacritic (5.3 critic review 6.1 user) and/or rotten tomatoes (67% critic 66% user) peak proves it. Compared to everyother star wars movie its ratings are abyasmal. That 'quanitative' enough for yeah? How about the fact that not much internet sites/posts from 2002 remain, so your demand by its very nature is next to impossible to pull up on a whim. Fact is though, sex/love sells and talk of no marriage not so much. So whine over details of 'quanitative' data all you want but stop asking for countless reviews talking endlessly about one plot point in a 'man bites dog' manner... its simple logic everyone knows how poorly that film was recieved andits common knowledge people found the no marriage rule boring exposition that was a poor attempt at making anakins love of padme like kids being told by parents they couldnt date.

    Next off Im not claiming to have read all of them, you're just looking for a way to dismiss what I'm saying. What I'm claiming is there is a trend in those reviews that gets repeated often enough, they found the lack of marriage a dull plot point at best and a moronic one at worst. Face it, its a theme that is far harder to relate to then say being free to marry or not and due to use already knowing the out come found it even more dull to boot. Worse in the grand sense, Jedi being unable to marry is a very plot constricting plot element, since it forces rehashes of Anakin/Padme evertime love comes up in the future and worse kinda limits Han and Leia or Leia becoming a Jedi till after Han dies. If Disney wants there writers to have artistic lincence and to be inspired to want to write more mvies they'd do really well to distance themselves from the 'no jedi marriage' rule.

    Feel free to dismiss this,you are entitled to. However if you're willing to be bold, next time you bump into a group randomly talking about the movies just ask them two thing first if they got why Lucas did the whole no marriage rule,second if theyd be able to get behind star wars better if Disney ignored that in ep 7 (try to phrash it from them being able to have more creative writing possibilities). If youre really ventourious ask a group of women... who you know, Disney needs to think about if they want star wars sales to top box office records.
  21. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Funny is that in Stoklasas review of Star Trek he points out how for every main character (even the villain) it was made absolutely clear that they are not gay (man, even Scotty has a girlfriend). Because apparently in Hollywood action movies there is nothing worse than a male character appearing gay. :rolleyes:

    Luke will have a girlfriend or wife, I'm super-certain about it. The celibate hero is basically dead in todays media.
    Ryus likes this.
  22. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Some critics mention the romance as in general badly written; Roger Ebert (even in an overall good review of ROTS) says Lucas does not write love scenes well, not his strength. But the idea that negative reviews were focused on the "Jedi can't get married" issue, or some sweeping generalization that the whole population had a problem with that specific aspect is a gigantic stretch.
  23. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I know there is nothing like easy money, that's the whole point.
  24. hachijedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2012
    star 2
    I say Widower with teenage Child. This way if the do an Animated Series set between "Episode VI and VII" then his wife can be featured. At this point Mary Jane will be older if they cast her so I think it will add to Luke's arc better if she somehow passed away.
  25. Darth_Pevra Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2008
    star 5
    Widower is disappointing. You know he had a wife but you won't even see her.
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