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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

ST Should Luke be single, married, divorced, or a widower?

Discussion in 'Sequel Trilogy' started by newdawn12, Apr 21, 2013.

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  1. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    1. No, Rotten Tomatoes is not nearly "quantitative" enough for me, not until the day when 90 percent or more of the people who buy movie tickets are forced to review the film on Rotten Tomatoes before leaving the theater.

    I'm not sure why you're getting upset over my request for quantitative data. :confused:. You are aware, I assume, that your opinion does not become more or less valid depending on whether the "general audience" shares it? You are also aware, I hope, that the "general audience" can't be stereotyped?

    And LOL it's "common knowledge" that people thought the Jedi should be able to marry? Again, cite something. I spent a lot of time studying data collection in grad school. Don't expect me to take the word of someone on the Internet who says "it's common knowledge", no matter how often he or she repeats that statement. And no, I'm not going to go search for this evidence as I'm not the one making the claim that my personal desires constitute what the "general audience" wants.

    2. I have read a lot of sexist bull**** on this website, but your last statement might be among the top worst. [face_plain] I stop taking you seriously when you claim that "women are only interested in romance and/or couldn't possibly handle a story without romance in it." I think you may have just topped Stoklasa's bull**** claim that "women like men who behave like X," as if we are all brainless clones who couldn't possibly have diverging interests.
     
  2. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    You know what's insulting? Calling someone sexist for barely a reason at all and twisting sentences so they fit your agenda. It immediately shuts down any intelligent discourse.

    On topic: It is fact that currently high grossing movies don't feature celibate heroes, or at least I don't any. Every action hero I know from the last couple years was in some sort of relationship or at least flirting with women. So why should a JJ Abrams directed movie (who has made sure in Trek that every male had a female love interest) and a mega-superduper blockbuster like Star Wars Episode VII!!!!! feature a celibate hero?

    I think Iger said they were moving away from PT spirit and want to bring more of an OT spirit into the ST and in the OT it was never forbidden for Luke to have a girlfriend.
     
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  3. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    ^Thank you Darth_Pevra ^:)^

    -----

    Sigh, first off I never stated 'women are only interested in romance and/or cant handle a story without romance' you and only you said that (well till I quoted you anyways :p) and even if I did your lying if that is the most sexist things you read here since I my brief time I've already seen a lot worse. Now what I said was romance is widely appealing and thus attracts the widdest customer basis 'aka the general audience' and women in general do find it appealing (I'll add in here, so do men). You are being disengenous and taking me out of context, subsutiting what I say to win a few points here.
    Next off let me repeat, most web sites/page from 2002 are down/moved since then. It could take days to find them and worse likely will require a paid subscription with a newspaper to reap their write ups (and yes, I already tried finding some of the more reputable ones I knew of which is blocking me with a please pay for this, which is useless to me since you'd have to pay to see it too since at the rate this is going I doubt you'd trust a quote without a source). You being a gradute student should know how hard it is to find these sites due to google requiring sites to update tech wise to maintain being at the top of the page, worse my pc is fried Im looking from my cell phone. Sorry but that isnt worth the data hit to my cell phone bill. Web pages get archived all the time, you should know this being a graduate student and all, yet for some reason you just ignored this reality. Sadly I cant help but again think its cause you where more concerned with winning points in a debate.

    Next off again, taken out of context. I never said it was common knowedge that 'people thought Jedi shpuld be able to marry'. What I said was it was 25 years since 1977 and the release of AotC in 2002 was the first time Star Wars ever stated Jedi couldnt marry. I then said it wasnt well recieved, in part due to lucas not being able to write romance and also because it was unrelatable theme to modern audience. Love/sex sells being celibate has a track record of not selling as well, recently Doctor Who said it best "Monks are not cool" :p.

    Now repeatedly you have taken me out of context. Why should I take anything you say now seriously?
     
  4. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Stereotyping what "women like" or telling me to ask a "group of women" if they want to see romance in Star Wars is perpetuating a sexist stereotype, and I'm not interested in doing that. I will call it when I see it though.

    And I'm not a grad student. ;) Somehow I don't think you're reading my posts. Discussing something that happened "in grad school" does not mean grad school is present-day.

    Fine, you don't want to post sources--don't. This angle of the conversation could have ended several posts ago, but-- speaking of only being interested in winning points in a debate--you were far more interested in telling me how "wrong" my opinion was using some argument about the "general audience" as opposed to just accepting that we have different taste and dropping it. If you're going to tell me that I'm "wrong" and use "we all know" or "the general audience" as your basis, then yeah, you need to cite your sources. Otherwise...we have different taste. Move along.

    Unless, of course, you'd rather call me a liar and score debate points that way. Stereotypes disgust me, especially those about women, you won't change that.
     
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  5. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 25, 2013
    Sigh... this bickering is pointless
     
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  6. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    Guys, the 'Basher/Gusher' wars are so 2000's... PT gushers still love the OT, PT Bashers know that some people will always love the PT - The 20Teens's are all about how the EU sucks/rules now! :p

    Just wait until the ST is actually relased, then the fires will burn bright again!
     
  7. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 25, 2013
    Lets lighten the mood a bit. ;)

    Yoda told Luke "The force runs strong in your family, pass on what you have learned", this is clealy permission for him to start breeding Jedi babies then to train them 8-}
     
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  8. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    Gandalf doesn't have a girlfriend or wife or kids and LOTR did pretty well. Just saying. :p
     
  9. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Yes, but it was pretty impossible to give him one. The books don't focus on his love life and fans would've been in arms if such an important detail were changed.
     
  10. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2002
    The Hobbit made a few dollars, and Bilbo wasn't flirting with anyone.
     
  11. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    Neither was Frodo.
     
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  12. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    Again, based on a series of books. Bad example.

    Star Wars VII won't be based on any books.
     
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  13. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 25, 2013
    He'll be content with just his precious soon enough.

    Next off for anyone who brings up The Hobbit/LotR, Aragon and Arwen say hello. In the 19 endings at the end of RotK there was quite a few other happy romantic endings set up. And I recall some flirting in TTT too, not to mention a hobbit or two getting a crush on a female elf a few times a big one in FotR.
     
  14. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    Sure Aragorn and Arwen had a romance but that didn't mean the entire cast had to have one. Gandalf (the mentor just like Luke in the ST) didn't and the films didn't suffer. The ST may have a romance between characters but that doesn't mean Luke HAS TO.
     
  15. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    No, he doesn't have too. But it is very probable.
     
  16. ezekiel22x

    ezekiel22x Chosen One star 5

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    Aug 9, 2002
    If general audiences were mortally afraid of heroes who don't flirt, The Hobbit could have been altered in adaptation. But it wasn't altered in this respect, and instead what we have is clear, fact-based evidence that a film with a hero who doesn't flirt can make a lot of money.
     
  17. Son of a Bith

    Son of a Bith Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 28, 2013
    I hope he has a love interest - Luke deserves it.
     
  18. Ryus

    Ryus Jedi Master star 4

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    Feb 25, 2013
    Bad example. Gandalf, is a Maiar, a spirit formed at the first Music of the Ainur. He's not really capible of romance as mortal being know it. Luke is a human and does have mortal level feelings.
     
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  19. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    I wouldn't be so sure. I'm actually very much in favor of Luke having a son or daughter to pass on the Skywalker name but I think it is just as likely that he won't.
     
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  20. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    And Luke is a Jedi who according to the Jedi Code isn't allowed to form attachments. ;)
     
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  21. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    The old jedi code, but who cares about them stuffy rules of the PT jedi?

    Risking all the inevitable nerdrage was probably not worth the change.

    And yes, a movie with a celibate hero can make big bucks. But it might make even more bucks with a love interest around. Current hollywood formula is that the hero has a love interest. You don't see many beta male action movie heroes either as alphas seem to make more money (spidey is one exception).
     
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  22. Darth Chiznuk

    Darth Chiznuk Superninja of Future Films star 8 Staff Member Manager

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    Oct 31, 2012
    Luke won't be the main hero though, he's the wise mentor.
     
  23. Darth_Pevra

    Darth_Pevra Chosen One star 6

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    May 21, 2008
    He can be both mentor and father. Two roles rolled in one. Bonus.
     
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  24. TheMadHatter

    TheMadHatter Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 16, 2009
    Feel free to dismiss this,you are entitled to. However if you're willing to be bold, next time you bump into a group randomly talking about the movies just ask them two thing first if they got why Lucas did the whole no marriage rule,second if theyd be able to get behind star wars better if Disney ignored that in ep 7 (try to phrash it from them being able to have more creative writing possibilities). If youre really ventourious ask a group of women... who you know, Disney needs to think about if they want star wars sales to top box office records.
    ---------------------------

    if I'm reading this right, are you suggesting women will go to see Star Wars if there is some marriage or family involved in the story? if you are, then my GF would totally disagree with you on that. She doesn't go to see Star Wars to see days of our lives, she goes to see a fantasy film set in space.
     
  25. HanSolo29

    HanSolo29 RPF/SWC/Fan Art Manager & Bill Pullman Connoisseur star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2001
    Exactly.

    I think it was Lucas himself who mentioned that Luke would be filling the wise sage/Obi-Wan role in the Sequels, if they were to be made. Luke will not be the main hero - perhaps a major player - but certainly not the main hero that everyone is cheering for. Given the history of the Jedi and what we've already seen in the films, I have no problem if Luke stuck strictly to the rules of old and remained celibate. A lot of strict, religious sects already practice that and really, it fits with the character if he is to be some wise, old mentor. I certainly have no issues accepting that.

    Let me say this - what if it's the new hero that starts to introduce change into the Order? I think it would be interesting to see Luke and a new character clash over tradition and things like that.
     
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