Should Luke have tried once more?

Oh, I'm not denying that he was cold. I'm only saying that he didn't necessarily appear cold, and that he could still have been (and appeared) calm.

 

Okay then.

...We need some new threads around here.

 

Good people can be cold.
Bad people can be calm.

A person can be calm AND cold too.

There are different definitions of a good and bad person of course.

I'm sure you all know good people who are very emotional. That shows that calm isn't a defining characteristic of a "good" person.

 

After checking out the definitions I got:

cold-lacking in passion, emotion, enthusiasm, ardor, etc.; dispassionate

Seeing as dark siders utilize passion and emotion, I'd say cold would fit a model Jedi better.

Jedi Code:
There is no emotion, there is peace.
There is no passion, there is serenity.

 

That's a good point. That's why I think there's a key difference between "good" in the humanistic sense and "good" for Jedi.

 

Serenity and peace don't necessarily imply coldness though. The Jedi attempt to overcome attachment, emotion, and passion yet they also encourage compassion.

 

Again, I'm not saying they're mutually exclusive... just that what might be a praiseworthy quality (in a humanistic way) might not be a good quality for a Jedi, e.g. ESB Luke.

 

i would say these things can all be charactoristics of a jedi or a sith
cold and calm, etc

there is no one defining attribute to a jedi or a sith or someone who is good or evil

some may be more likely with one or the other, but there are always exceptions to any rule

 

True, but then that raises the question of just what's good as a humanistic quality which opens an entirely new can of worms.

 

The issue with the Jedi Code as far as I see it is that its so very open to interpretation. Different Jedi take different messages from it to the point that I find it almost meaningless.

The important thing is to keep on the right path, attachment be darned, emotion be darned.

The coldest interpretation of the Jedi COde for me comes from the mighty Yoda himself, to the point that he blinds himself with it. I personally very glad Luke never got carried away with that archaic code. Thinking for himself, knowing while training on Dagobah that Yoda was wrong about going to rescue Han and Leia, thats what makes Luke stand out and above the hypocrisy of the Old Jedi Order.

 

I agree with you. The way I see it, Yoda's Jedi took the Code far too literally. Personally, I think the Code's purpose was to guard against succumbing to emotion. Loving someone is not wrong. Being sad, getting angry, regretting, getting close to someone, none of that is wrong. Emotions are an undeniable part of life, and experiencing them does not make one less of a Jedi. However, giving into them to an extreme is. It's fine and dandy to get angry at someone, but stabbing them in the face with your lightsaber over that anger is wrong. There has to be a happy medium, and I think the original intent of the Code was to do just that. Something like this:

There is no emotion, there is peace = You're angry. Calm down and control that anger, don't give in to it.

I think the Old Jedi Order was so intent on preventing other Jedi from falling that they lost sight of what makes a Jedi a guardian. You can't distance yourself from the people you're protecting, because they will resent you for it. Just as the galaxy began to resent the Jedi.

 

Of course. But if there was a simple answer to that, philosophers would be out of a profession.

Most definitely. The problem is that Jedi still need a strong moral compass, so they do have to distance themselves from the desires of others (i.e. stay neutral), while not trying to ignore them entirely (i.e. ignorance).

 

The problem is, it really doesn't how much the Jedi do right or do wrong. A vast majority of the galaxy will always resent and distrust the Jedi no matter what they do.

 

Those are the same thing. Yoda himself shows emotion a number of times and knows Mace's entire style is based on harnessing his darker emotions. They're not saying emotion is inherently evil, but that it must be controlled.

Also, the old Order is fine with love as demonstrated by Anakin's statement "Attachment is forbidden. Possession is forbidden. Compassion, which I would define as unconditional love, is central to a Jedi's life, so you might say we're encouraged to love." His interpretation of just what the encouragement of love entails is flawed, but that statement itself is accurate. The problem isn't love, the problem is attachment for reasons Anakin would himself demonstrate and Luke would demonstrate to a lesser degree in LotF.

They also recognize that people will feel other emotions. They just have to control them and not let them cloud their judgment.

Point.