Lit Should Mara Jade exist in the nu Continuity?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by StarWarsFan91, Mar 16, 2017.

  1. Darth Basin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 15, 2015
    star 5
    She can be brought back but do something unexpected.....she never falls in love with Luke.
    Lady_Misty and CT1138 like this.
  2. Thrawn082 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2014
    star 6
    Jacen for me became incredibly uninteresting once he started going dark. They just didn't execute it well at all.
  3. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    That's a fine opinion but to say Jacen is inferior to Kylo as a character or center of a narrative-I just can't even imagine who would think that and that I share a planet with them.
    Anedon likes this.
  4. jamminjedi23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2015
    star 4
    It does make one wonder why the decision was made to essentially do a 'soft reboot' with LOTF. I know the NJO series is highly thought of on this board but overall did it get a lot of criticism?
  5. godisawesome Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 2010
    star 3
    NJO was a very different series from what came before and what came after; it was more of a total status quo shift that contained numerous mini-series inside it, rather like the No Man's Land event in Batman, than a single contained storyline. It also felt like just taking the Bantam storylines and taking them all for a whirl under Del Rey. Generally, its high points were really, really good, though I think some of its radical departures from what came before (pseudo-resurgent Empires and a plethora of easily destroyed Superweapons accompanied by hundreds of somewhat laughable Dark Jedi) and what came after (Prequels 2.0) may tell you the issue with them. Del Rey probably thought they'd gone a bit too far afield with the Vong as badguys and the whole "About an 1/8th of the Galaxy is dead at mimimum and we've totally redefined the Jedi's view of the Force." It probably just looked so much easier to copy the Prequels with Sith Lords and to refocus their stories that they couldn't help themselves.

    I do think she's strong enough to stand without it... But I don't think Disney and the Story Group see her as exceptional enough to get an upgrade without that element. Her being Luke's wife made her a peer and confidant of the Big Three human characters, and you *did* see a massive increase in her profile afterwards. And since her interactions with Luke were a focus of her previous iteration even without the romance option, I think you're heading into a headache without that, one way or another. Either she's not being exploited to her full potential because you do something like have her never interact with Luke (thus her fans complain and she doesn't sell as well), or you've got her interacting with him and accidentally teasing both old fans and new with romantic possibilities (in which case backing off still makes fans complain and risks a minor but vitriolic fandom war). I mean, maybe you could make their orientation incompatible, but even that may risk some annoyance from people just because she'd be in the NEU, and she'd represent a conventional happy interlude for Luke between the two trilogies and you'd be daring people to compare it to his new status quo.

    To me, Mara Jade casts a shadow over just enough fanboys that I only really seeing her existing in all her former niches, or not at all, because I don't want to hear Mara fanboys and fangirl complaining about her getting the short shrift, or from romance and anti-"No attachments" fans complaining about a celibate Luke, with her right there in continuity to allow them to bluntly do what-if scenarios to their friends, and I don't think the story group would care for it either. If Luke doesn't have a love interest in the NEU, than Mara can stay preserved as the ideal in Legends. If he does, and the character at all resembles Mara's traits, she should come back. The Luke/Mara relationship is both her largest baggage and her largest selling point.
  6. Thrawn082 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 11, 2014
    star 6
    Comparing Jacen to Kylo isn't fair to the latter anyway. Jacen had what, dozens of novels and other media where he appeared over decades, and pretty much his entire life story was filled in.

    Kylo, on the other hand, has been in ONE movie so far (and he hasn't even played a significant role in any of the novels, comics, etc that they've put out so far), with most of his backstory left ambiguous (intentionally so) to be filled in later.

    It's not even remotely the same situation right now. But one thing that Kylo already has the advantage in is that his flaws as a villain are intentional and built into the character. Whereas with Jacen, it was the result of different people having different ideas and not communicating well. One is intentional, the other less so.
  7. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 4
    Belief in the absolute righteousness of your own opinions and ideas is the height of ignorance.

    On a broader scale, beyond Star Wars of course, that kind of thinking is even dangerous.

    Newsflash: you in fact do share a planet with billions of people who have different opinions than you.

    sent from my Moto X-Wing
    Pfluegermeister and jSarek like this.
  8. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    Because Kylo Ren is an awesome villain and Jacen Solo was a terribad one? I love Jacen Solo who kept numerous pets and made bad jokes. I loved Traitor Jacen.

    Did you SERIOUSLY find his corruption arc good?

    That is as far from my realm of experience with any Star Wars fan as the Prequels being better than the OT.

    Kylo Ren is also an iconic villain now across the globe. Take note.
    Last edited by Charlemagne19, Mar 19, 2017
    Darth Caliban likes this.
  9. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 4
    I really liked DNS and LOTF (and FOTJ).

    There are a lot of people who did...Despite what some of the more vocal people here may say/believe.

    I think that holds true for a lot of SW books most who post here think of as bad. Dark Disciple is a good example. I thought it irredeemably terrible...But there are a lot of people who like it.

    sent from my Moto X-Wing
  10. jamminjedi23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2015
    star 4

    Yep. We need to remember that even though this is an extremely active message board compared to what most message boards are like. It still however probably doesn't have more than 200-300 regular posters.
    Last edited by jamminjedi23, Mar 19, 2017
  11. Stymi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2002
    star 4
    Reminds me of one of my few attempts to contribute to the Wook years ago. I forget the specifics and even what the article was about, but it had something to do with introducing opinion as fact, and the supporting evidence for this fact was a reference to a TFN lit. forum post that aligned with the views on that Wook page. And I was basically arguing that that forum is not evidence for one, and even if it was, it's not a representative sample to support a claim.

    I was pretty fresh out of grad school at the time and naively still believed evidence-based arguments were a thing people in general cared about.

    Long story short, I was pounced on for "whining," and as I further presented my case, I was just straight up called names and swore at for questioning shoddy evidence. It thought it all very odd.

    But an interesting glimpse into how evidence and outcomes have continued to devolve in the US.

    sent from my Moto X-Wing
    AdmiralWesJanson likes this.
  12. jamminjedi23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2015
    star 4
    Though I don't think there is much chance at all that Luke and Aphra will end up getting together romantically if they did choose to go that route though the story actually wouldn't be that dissimilar to Mara Jade and Luke getting together in legends.

    Aphra (two years into her existence) isn't that much different than Mara Jade was during the original Thrawn Trilogy. Both were introduced as characters directly working with the Empire and enemies of the big 3 and both began working closer with the big 3 as time went on.

    If they wanted to they wouldn't have to force it that much for Luke and Aphra to develop feelings for eachother and then the new canon would have its brand new version of Mara Jade. Now if they wanted to turn Aphra into Rey's mom then that would require things to be a little more forced considering Aphra would likely be mid to late forties by the time Rey was born and they have made Aphra look Asian (which Rey obviously is not).
  13. Charlemagne19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    Personally, I'm hoping Aphra stays a baddie and gets back on Vader's good side. They make such an awesome duo.

    Still, I need to catch up on my Aphra reading so I can see her and Luke interact.
    Lady_Misty and Barriss_Coffee like this.
  14. jamminjedi23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2015
    star 4

    Yeah I highly reccomend it. The Aphra series is turning out to be really interesting. They have made it be just as much about exploring the lore of the Star Wars universe as it is about further developing Aphra's character.
  15. StarWarsFan91 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    If she was introduced in the new continuity, I think the marvel
    Comics would be a better starting point then in Rebels or a book.
  16. KamNale Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2012
    star 1
    I wouldn't mind. I had a dream that she was in Rebels and had a purple lightsaber.
  17. Darth Caliban Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2015
    star 3
    But we don"t know enough about his background story and future arc yet. Isn't it too early to decide who's the better character?
  18. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    Okay I'll give you a prediction he will likely be redeemed killing Snoke in Episode 9 or something of a similar effect.

    Any NuEU novels will simply fill in his backstory and will not really tell us much more than is obvious.

    I wager 50/50 this will be the case.

    I could be wrong but I won't admit any such thing until after the last Sequel movie but I doubt it.
    Amon_Amarth likes this.
  19. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    Okay I'll give you a prediction he will likely be redeemed killing Snoke in Episode 9 or something of a similar effect.

    Any NuEU novels will simply fill in his backstory and will not really tell us much more than is obvious.

    I wager 50/50 this will be the case.

    I could be wrong but I won't admit any such thing until after the last Sequel movie but I doubt it.

    Oh and he will likely die.
  20. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    Edit: double post, sorry to any mods watching was a mistake seems when I went back to edit my post it was already posted or wasn't or I hit the button too many times. I dunno anyway truly sorry about that.
    Last edited by Darth Invictus, Mar 20, 2017
  21. jamminjedi23 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 19, 2015
    star 4
    Even if it does turn out to be that way he would still be a better character than Jacen because (like others have said) he was planned to be that way from the very beginning. Unlike Jacen who was something else entirely in the beginning but whose personality was completely altered in order to give legends their own soft reboot.
    Last edited by jamminjedi23, Mar 20, 2017
  22. Anedon Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2016
    star 4
    Well Jacen's change in personality is actually explained. First he was on his years long journey visiting other groups of force users and learning from them. So he was essentialy on a pilgrimage for years and such religious expiriences change people. And of course its clearly shown that the problems of the galaxy weight on his shoulders as he, in contrast to his parents and sister cares for the beings in the galaxy.
    This weight, combined with his believes that there is no light and dark side drives him
    to use more extreme methods to keep the galaxy stable. And than of course his love for Allana that kicks him over the edge.

    I'm not saying that he was justified in what he does but the reasons are there. They are just not as simple and obvious as Kylos.
    Lord Sith Harloxzz likes this.
  23. JediMara77 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2004
    star 4
    I just want to comment on the irony of a thread about Mara Jade morphing into a thread about Jacen vs. Kylo.

    EVEN WHEN SHE'S NOT CANON, SHE'S FRIDGED. :p
  24. Skywalker2B Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2000
    star 3
    I'm gonna have to come back and read pages 2 and 3, but will say that I put something together last year that some people posting here may like. It's in an existing thread (discussion about Kenobi), but I've updated the idea since that original posting. I'll post more in the next day or so.
  25. Darth Invictus Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 8, 2016
    star 4
    Jacen's IU motivations have been debated on this forum to no end, unfortunately for me I wasn't here at the time to contribute. As it is I still love his character and can't help but get offended thinking or seeing Kylo Ren.

    Mara is an iconic EU character and really I don't want here Disneyfied. I have watched Rebels and I despised the way Thrawn has been treated. I don't want Mara given the same fate.

    The EU has a few elements that stand out in anything approaching popular consciousness-Mara, Thrawn, Reborn Palpatine, Revan and the Vong.

    The first two are popular, the second less so, the fourth a lot, and the fifth unpopular to very controversial.

    I don't want the EU to be a strip mine where characters and ideas, and planets and themes are milked for all their worth and then left out to dry as dead husks.

    It's disrespectful to the authors that created them, the fans that appreciated them, and those things themselves.

    But that's my apparently unpopular opinion.