Should Music be censored?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by CarbonKnight, Aug 2, 2002.

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  1. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    I've been watching horror movies since I was 3. And I've had no side-effects, media influencing children is an absurd thing. Especially since Eminem, has stated many times in his music that it's all fake. Yet people take it as fact about the man.

    Sure, Eminem is contrived, but that doesnt make him any less dangerous. Rap gave the slummers a voice, but unfortunately that "voice" has been appallingly mishandled, and now rap is a disgusting reminder of the harsh reality in minority America. When six year olds start idolizing rappers, you've got a problem. As a start, we should take the CD's out of the kids hands.

    media influencing children is an absurd thing

    Yeah, kids aren't impressionable at all. Nope.
  2. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    [sarcasm]Yes... let's censor music. God forbid anyone should be forced to use their brains to have separate fact from fiction.[/sarcasm]

    Seriously... if parents haven't sat down and taught their kids the difference between reality and fantasy, that's their own damned fault.

    Censorship is being touted most by those institutions who thrive on the restriction of information. (Hint: Think medievalism...)

    They will neither approve the free exchange of information, nor will they promote education, knowledge and the fostering of wisdom in place of censorship.

    Why? I've said it before and I'll say it again... People who know how to think for themselves aren't easy prey for fundamentalists?who have everything to gain from the blind devotion of others to their cause.

    If an institution cannot control the flow of information, it cannot wield power over the masses. The decentralization of knowledge and access to knowledge is the single largest threat to selfish potentates.
  3. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    While it should not be censored for adults, I think it should be treated like movies and be rated accordingly. Some should be 18+ only, others 13+, etc. Radio stations would not be allowed to play over a certain rating and all this would be enforced by the government.

  4. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Excuse me, I respect that people want freedom, but when this music is targeted at kids, it's still the parent's job to raise their kids how they want. Maybe some of them don't care if their kids listen to that music, but some probably do. I think it would be much easier for everyone if there were a ratings system. There are rating on movies, but that doesn't stop people who want to see every kind of movie from seeing them.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  5. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    Seriously... if parents haven't sat down and taught their kids the difference between reality and fantasy, that's their own damned fault.

    Right, and you must think all parents have done this, correct?

    Why not throw a porno in the lap of a 5 year old and leave him to deal with it on his own?

    There's a reason we have censorship you know. There is a certain song by Limp Bizkit which has numberable F words... over 100 I believe. Suprisingly the song has no message, meaning or creativity! And yet you feel the need to defend their so called "artistic merit" on the basis of principles?
  6. Ramius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 3
    CarbonKnight, when you say censor, what do you mean? A more extensive ratings system like movies? Or censor like on tv and radio bleaping out bad words?
  7. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    Why not throw a porno in the lap of a 5 year old and leave him to deal with it on his own?

    I don't know about you... but I'd seen naked women at the age of 5. For some reason, though, maybe parenting (gee, ya think?), I don't view nakedness as something to be ashamed about.

    I actually like my body... and I like women's bodies. Is there something wrong with that?

    I don't rape, I don't kill, I don't hunt down little girls, and I don't cheat on my wife... but I know of many fundamentalists who've done one or more of these things.

    I often wonder why half the members of the animal kingdom aren't raping each other 24 hours a day and becoming irrational and violent in droves... I mean, hey, they're naked all the time.

    I'm thinking of a word in relation to the cause of such societal collapse, evident very much so from anthropological studies of different societies... no, not "pornography"... that's not the word I'm thinking of.

    repression... that's the word.
  8. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    There's a reason we have censorship you know.

    We do? Where do you live? China? Hi... I live in America. Government censorship of the arts is expressly prohibited here by the First Amendment.

    There is a certain song by Limp Bizkit which has numberable F words... over 100 I believe. Suprisingly the song has no message, meaning or creativity! And yet you feel the need to defend their so called "artistic merit" on the basis of principles?

    Limp Bizkit has no artistic merit in my opinion. However, they are entitled to their opinion... and their right to express their opinion. That is protected by the same governance, the US Constitution, as is your right to discuss government censorship which is so contrary to the guiding principles of American democracy.

    The problem with censorship is that, because of the lack of statistical data to show that Limp Bizkit is any more negatively influential on a child than say... Raffi (Yes, Raffi does weird things to me... I often want to maul bystanders whenever I hear his feel-good crap which wreaks of Barneyish contrivance and insincerity :D). I mean, then we'd have to start banning pretty much everything from coming into contact with children.

    I mean.. my god... god forbid these kids would have to make mistakes and learn from them in their life! God forbid anyone should have to figure things out on their own or with their parents' guidance. God forbid parents should have to do their job! All this, notwithstanding the fact that Limp Bizkit's musical talent is the artistic equivalent of a cheese grater on a dog's butt.

    If you, as a parent, are telling me you're incapable of discussing with your children the obvious impotence and contrived marketing behind mentioning the "F" word 100 times in a song... then, in my opinion, you shouldn't be having children. If your child is too young to understand plain english, and don't underestimate their cognitive skills either (one of the best ways to set off the sometimes natural rebelliousness in a child).. then they're most likely too young to walk into a store and buy a Limp Bizkit album without some assistance from mother and father. Who drove them to the store? Who paid for the album? Who was tall enough to get it down from the racks?

    Are you telling me there are 4 year olds walking around buying cigarettes, booze, and Marilyn Manson records entirely of their own ability? Who gave them the cash? Is there a state in America that somehow managed to repeal child labor laws?

    If you can't control your four year old's buying habits... either you are easily manipulated, incredibly gullible... or you might want to talk to the National Enquirer about your child's supernatural abilities.
  9. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    ht, and you must think all parents have done this, correct?

    Yes, if they're good parents. Parents want everything easy nowadays. It's like having a child is nothing, just procreation. Who cares if they're raised poorly?

    Why not throw a porno in the lap of a 5 year old and leave him to deal with it on his own?

    I agree with snowdog here. You come into this world naked, I've loved women since I was in kindergarten for crying out loud. I always knew what sex was. Not how it was performed when I was young, but what it was. I disagree that porn is a negative influence too. :D

    There's a reason we have censorship you know. There is a certain song by Limp Bizkit which has numberable F words... over 100 I believe. Suprisingly the song has no message, meaning or creativity! And yet you feel the need to defend their so called "artistic merit" on the basis of principles?


    So? I went to an art museum and saw a yellow block and they called it art. I've listened to verbally offensive music, and have seen a lot of stuff at a young age. It really doesn't effect me anymore. But I don't smoke, I don't do drugs, I occasionally drink, and I treat women like gold. And yet, what you propose to do is supposed to make people like that. I think all of the madmen and women of the world aren't psychotic, they're not evil, they're just repressed, there's a line that everyone has and if your repression crosses that line you're gonna act out. So censorship should not be looked upon as a good thing in most cases.
  10. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    So censorship should not be looked upon as a good thing in most cases.

    I agree... I don't seem to recall any instance in history where censorship or prohibitive economics (*ahem* 18th/21st Amendments, anyone?) ever worked as intended.

    In fact, in most cases, such prohibitive or restrictive tactics only resulted in increases in criminal activity.

    The drug war is a perfect example... we've been wasting billions on an invisible enemy for years... throwing money down a toilet, and not decreased the criminal acts surrounding the drug trade... we've kept the street price of drugs so prohibitively high that one Priest actually said it's so easy and fast to make money selling drugs, that to suggest otherwise at times seems "almost un-American" in our materialistic, consumerist economy?driven largely by the western theological/philosophical "ideals" of manifest destiny and dominion.

    Hell, we are so screwed up because of our repressive attitudes that we actually have people doing drugs to get themselves off other drugs!

    And pharmaceutical companies know this... and make billions off maintaining a mediocre national state of health, while we go after some Colombian shmucks who probably make a lot less money than the CEOs of our largest pharmaceutical manufacturers.

    They'll tell you drugs help fund terrorism... but you will never see the Bush administration support a commercial advertising that buying gasoline helps support terrorism far more than buying marijuana. Out of one side of their mouth they will say "Just Say No", whilst drinking a martini and smoking a cigarette out of the other side of their mouth as they're in the middle of making under-the-table negotiations to arm terrorists abroad so companies like Enron and Unocal can build an oil pipeline through Afghanistan... of course, if such a deal ever fell through, we might have to revoke our support of the terrorist-funded government we helped install... but then that would have retaliatory repercussions... along the lines of, oh, I don't know... the World Trade Center attacks...
  11. medleyoz Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    HELL NO. it's up to parent/guARDIANS to control what music their kids listen to. also if you stop people from listening to "offensive" music they will want to listen to it to just hear why it was censored.CENSORSHIP SUCKS. i live in Australia and the stupid censors BANNED grand theft auto 3 for like 5 months until rockstar games cleaned it up.
    general warnings and recommendations are all that is required like "warning explicit lyrics" or "warning some content may offend"
    Some of my favourite CD's contain content that would offend people due to suicide and anti- jesus messages.
  12. Dracmus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 4
    So? I went to an art museum and saw a yellow block and they called it art

    art is in the eye of the beholder...


    parents, not the government should tell kids what to listen to...
  13. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I don't want it censored, but I think it would be better if it were rated. I mean, give the parents some help at least?

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  14. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Okay, if a parent buys a kid an Eminem cd, don't you think they would've heard about this guy by now? He's been all over the news times over.
  15. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    You'd be surprised at how oblivious parents can be to that kind of stuff. Often, they'll simply tune it out. Hell, I'm 21 and I tune Eminem out as best I can. ;)
  16. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Hehe...well I'm just saying, parents shouldn't be so dumb about stuff. If a guy's cd is named "Hoes for me!" they really should know that it's something their kid shouldn't be listening to.
  17. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    Well there are those warning labels, but only for extreme cases. There are albums sprinkled with other profanities that aren't extreme (like Weezer, my fav band) but parents might want to know about those anyway.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  18. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    My big gripe about rating music or censoring it for that matter, is that music is the last bastion of something that defies ratings. I'm sure that must piss off a lot of parents.

    Censorship is parenting the parents. Or parenting for the parents. It's like they don't know how to raise their own children and go protest about it. But what they're really doing is limiting freedoms to the people who make the music.
  19. stevo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 14, 2001
    star 4
    I don't believe in censorship of offensive music, but to think that the media doesn't effect kids is absurd-- hell, It effects me!
  20. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    Hehe...well I'm just saying, parents shouldn't be so dumb about stuff

    Oh, I agree %100. Once you have kids, you shouldn't be allowed the luxury of being dumb to things, especially things that your kids are involved in. Being a 'detached' parent doesn't work...unless you're trying to raise I kid you someday won't even recognize. I was allowed a lot of privacy as a kid...but my parents were involved enough to know what I watched and listened to. That was there job, and I know that I am a better person for it.

    A rating system might help parents, sure...but they cannot use the absence of one as an excuse for not knowing what their kids are doing.
  21. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Parents get off so easily these days. A kid shoots up a school, they blame the media. Their kid comes home with bruises the kid was influenced by Marilyn Manson so he beat him up. Don't these people ever think that maybe just maybe they are the cause for what their kids do? My parents always believed that my brother and I learned from our own mistakes. They still cared for us, but gave us a lot of freedom most kids have. My point is that the parents aren't at fault for what their kids do. Only their kids are, but if you're a crummy parent, chances are they're the way they are because their parents didn't care about them.
  22. yodafett999 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    Here's a fairly easy solution for finding out what your kids are listening to or what they want to listen to: Listen to it yourself first.

    My parents did this all the time when I was a young child. If there was a movie out that I wanted to see, that wasn't Disney or rated G, then they would watch it first and decide if it was appropriate for me. Most of the parents I see today can't be bothered to take this small step to monitor what their kids are watching or listening to. The average music album out right now is 45 minutes long. Less than one hour out of your life to find out what your kids are listening to. Take the opportunity. Do a little research. Don't just blindly accept that your 6 year old kid is coming up and asking for the latest Eminem album. Don't just sit by as your 7 year old daughter asks for a copy of the second Napalm Death album. Find out about these bands, see what kind of music they play, and make a parental decision to say "no".

    That, to me, is the biggest problem these days. Parents don't want to be the bad guys so they bend over backwards to not discipline their children and not put their foot down. Guess what? Whether they believe it or not, you are doing things for their own good. I know when I was growing up I thought my parents were just extremely unfair by not allowing me to see R-rated films at the age of 9, by not allowing me to listen to a George Carlin comedy album in their collection but allowing me to listen to Bob Newhart's "Buttoned Down Life" at the age of 10. Once I grew up and matured I realized why they had made these choices and I actually appreciated it. I also recognized that my parents weren't simply keeping me away from harmful influences because George Carlin is hardly a really harmful influence, but he is an adult thinker with some interesting ideas. Ideas that I would never have understood at that age and that would have flown completely over my head. I would have focused on the taboo words, not the message behind their usage. George Carlin would probably have lost any real influence on me at that point and I wouldn't be able to recognize what a talented comedian he is because he would have always been that guy who used all those curse words.

    Parents, you have to be the bad guy sometimes. It's a part of your job. If you do it well then you'll reap the rewards and benefits of a happy, socially adjusted child. I think that's what everyone wants.

  23. JediStryker Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
    I've played violent video games and watched violent movies almost all my life (alright, I still remember when the NES first came out, but c'mon), but I am still a well-adjusted, 'normal' person, who respects people and life as well as anyone else. I can attribute that to my up-bringing. No one can blame anyone else for how their kids are.
  24. Ramius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 3
    Well there are those warning labels, but only for extreme cases

    :( Tell that to my mom 5 years ago. I remember several times she wouldn't let me get a CD because it had that warning :_| I tried to tell her it wasn't a bad band, but she would never listen. But that was when I was like 10, so I guess the labels served their purpose.

    I don't think violent movies effect the average kid. I saw T2 when I was six! When I was 8 I saw Undersiege. Not showing kids violence, nudity, profanity, is not going to make them a better person. How they live their life is what molds their personality, not something they see on tv. If you shelter your kids like that, they'll end up like Rod and Tod Flanders.

    I have parents that are involved in my life, and don't count on tv to raise me. They always said things like, "why don't you go read a book instead of watching tv, or go outside and ride your bike".
  25. DarthYama Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 4
    If you shelter your kids like that, they'll end up like Rod and Tod Flanders.


    Or, for that matter, Ed Gein.
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