Should Music be censored?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by CarbonKnight, Aug 2, 2002.

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  1. Ramius Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 3
    Or, for that matter, Ed Gein

    Forgive my arrogance, but who's that?
  2. Rebecca191 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I don't think a violent movie will effect most young kids in the long term, but what about right after they see it? Some kids might be really scared, and have nightmares.
  3. Lieutenant Tschel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 1999
    star 2
    Hmm, my Dad even downloaded Shareware versions of Doom and Wolfenstein 3D for me when I was little. Did that turn me into a psychopathic killer? No. He knew me well enough to see that I fully understood it was just a game. Besides, even he thought the guy with the two gatling guns who'd pop out and say, "Guten Tag!" was pretty funny.

    Both my parents have supported my interest in WWII with no apparent worries that it would make me into some Columbine-esque wacko. In fact I was one of the victim of the Columbine backlash. I had a practice of adorning my binders and bookcovers with various images and symbols pertaining to all combatant nations. This is the stupidest thing of all. I had a binder with a picture of Adolf Galland's Bf 109E circa Battle of Britain and some loudmouth got me in trouble because it had a swastika on the tail! OOh....

    Anyway, after being sent to the Counselor's office I calmly explained to her that during the Second World War the swastika had become the national emblem of Germany and so was placed on the aircraft as a kind of national ensign, not as any indicator of the individual's dedication to National Socialism. I also stated that the pilot whose aircraft it was was often at odds with Hitler and Goring on various matters and is a respected figure in nearly all military history circles.

    That was pretty much it, although I had to remove the picture. So I replaced it with one depicting an SS Panzer Division which no one recognized and so didn't complain about. The only good thing about ignorance is defying the people without them even realizing it.
  4. Darth_SnowDog Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2001
    star 4
    We live in a society of instant gratification... is it any wonder that parents don't want to have to work to figure out how to be good parents? Is it any wonder that, as in their career, their lifestyle, their faith, and many other aspects of life, parents in America want there to be a quick path or simple answer to everything?

    In parenting, there is no such thing as a simple answer or quick path. Kids, each one of them unique in their own way, do not come with instructions.

    Lt. Tschel: Most public school administrators and faculty would not be aware of the fact that the swastika is a symbol of nobility and spiritual power, first used by my ancestors, the Indo-Aryans. It was Hitler who confused, distorted and twisted the meaning of the swastika to ultimately become more synonymous with the Nazi movement. Of course, he often made misconceptions about the Aryans and Dorians, whom he idolized, because of his interest in the mediocre writings of Max Müller and other historians of even lesser repute.

    Censorship should not be used to excuse your teachers' and administration's ignorance of history. By prohibiting the display of the swastika because of their misconceptions, they are, in my view, legitimizing the false meaning attributed to the swastika by the Nazi party. I consider such an act as giving credence to Nazi propaganda, and therefore an insult to the heritage of my ancestry.
  5. JediStryker Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2000
    star 4
  6. Lieutenant Tschel Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 1999
    star 2
    Well you have to give them some latitude considering that in popular opinion, the swastika is the #1 symbol of the Nazi regime and its brutality. I'm more with you however, and believe that symbols should not be made to pay for the crimes of those that bore them, especially one with so broad a following as the swastika.

    This applies to music too. I enjoy many of the marches that were used by German military formations during the War. Most of it even predates the Nazis, but of that which does not, it's still damn good music. One of the reasons the Nazis were able to grip the minds of an entire nation (sad but true) is that they were such great "entertainers". Just look at some of the footage of those massive rallies...
  7. DarthYama Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 4
    Forgive my arrogance, but who's that?

    A lunatic that exhumed corpses and made clothes and furniture out of them. Weird, neh?
  8. Tash-Lamour Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2002
    No. I really don't even like the idea of stickers.. or maybe I just don't like the idea behind them or the 'laides' who put them into place. *harrumph* In any case, if we're depending on stickers to teach our kids what's okay to listen to whilst riding to church on sunday morning and what we should keep in our personal discplayer, then we've gone bonkers, because goverment officals can't even get themselves straightened out, let alone millions of children.
  9. DilatedPeoples Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    No, they should not be censored.

    J5 barely swears, but because they are rappers, they get the PA tagging. Their messages are good ones and they are filled with skills. People should listen to them. The sticker hinders this.
  10. EnforcerSG Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2001
    star 4
    I personally have never understood why, with ratings for TV and movies, we don't have similar ratings for music. I don't like listening to music with explicit language, but I don't mind some. That's fine for me because I just don't listen to music with warning labels. But how is someone, epecially a parent, to tell the swear-free music from the music with some swearing by just looking at the packaging?

    I personally have never understood why, with no ratings for music and books, we have ratings for TV and movies.

    There are warning labels, and that is good. I am not sure how descriptive they are, but moderate warning lables are IMHO not a bad idea. Let everyone who wants to know what is in the music (make it easier for parrents) but dont limit it at all. Anything by age is bad since some people are simple more responsible than others. (I dont know why they would want to listen to some of the bleep the record company pushes out) but many of the ppl who listen to the music in question dont have any problems and for some reason enjoy it.

    Any type of forceful censorship IMHO sets a bad president. What next? Books?

    The typical 3 year old should not be watching horror movies. The poor kids will have nightmares....

    But he said he didnt.

    IMHO, art is something that took time and effort to make. If I throw a bucket of paint on a wall, and say it simbolises the chaos of the world, and call it art, i would be well off my rocker, and unless that yellow block was somehow something that others could not to, it is not art. Same with the F-word song. How hard is it to make? What effort was put into it?
  11. TeeBee Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    While I don't agree with censorship, I also don't understand the rush we seem to be in to normalize the profane. I have no respect for crap-mouthed neanderthals, and any children I have will be taught not to idolize them. Musicians who can't seem to write songs without a plethora of profanities and TV show writers who create filth and target it towards children should be shunned, not celebrated.

    Our culture keeps getting coarser and coarser and because each step we take down the filth road gets written of as 'eh..no big deal...don't be such a prude', we simply become more and more numb to it. Just when I think pop culture has hit rock bottom, something even more grotesque or obscene becomes the epitome of 'cool'.

    Because of this, I haven't watched prime time TV or bought any 'new' music in years. I'm a firm believer of the idea of 'garbage in, garbage out'. Besides, if I wanted to vomit that much, I'd become a bulimic. [face_plain]
  12. yodafett999 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    If you haven't watched it or listened to it how do you know it's garbage? :p

    I'm all for instilling morals in the youth of today but if I'm writing a movie or television show primarily geared towards adults I'm not going to change the way I feel it should be presented (be it by profanity, violence, sex....whatever) for the sake of protecting and sheltering young kids that might possibly come in contact with it at some undetermined point in their development.

    I agree that throwing things in just for the sake of sensationalism is in poor taste but when it's the basis for a story or is a key component in the placing of a character type it is imperative that you be as realistic as possible. If you're writing a movie about drug dealers then you're going to have to show a little bit of the product and its usage or the audience will not be as drawn in as they should be and you need them to be to further the development and structure of the story.

    I hate to do this again and again but it's called "freedom of expression" for a reason. If you don't like it then that's fine, that's your personal choice, but you have no right to deride and crusade against someone else's right to listen to it.

    This post, after the opening sentence (love you Teebee :) ), is in no way directed at anyone in this thread. It's merely a comment on the things I have seen in my life in regards to this issue.

    I do not agree with a ratings system for music just as I really don't agree with a ratings system for movies. Nor do I agree with one for television. I look at them as lazy parenting tools designed to give these parents a very hands-off approach to raising their children. Parent/child interaction is the most key thing in the development of that child and the installation of the morals that you want them to mimic.

  13. DarthPhelps Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 5
    It would cost a fortune to see (preview) every movie as a tool for parenting. Having a ratings system in place gives parents a starting point.

    Oh, this one's a G or PG. No prob. This one's PG-13, better check it out. Movie previews don't tell the whole story, as far as objectionable content. Don't confuse ratings with censorship. Ratings have a place.
  14. yodafett999 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    I didn't say they had to preview every movie. Just every movie their young child would like to see. I'm not talking about kids in the 13 year old range. I'm talking about 3 to 10 year olds. You can tell a lot about a film just by seeing who is in it, seeing a trailer for it, knowing what company it comes from, and things of that sort.

    I know they'll never get rid of movie ratings :) I just don't like them :p
  15. TeeBee Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    I hate to do this again and again but it's called "freedom of expression" for a reason. If you don't like it then that's fine, that's your personal choice, but you have no right to deride and crusade against someone else's right to listen to it.

    Actually, I think I have the right to 'deride' anything I darn well please. :p "Freedom of expression" doesn't trump "freedom of speech" last time I checked. Crusade against it? No, as I said I'm not for outright censorship, I'm for the ratings system. But what I'd prefer the most is for people just grow up and put a little dampener on their own mouths and 'art', but since anything goes anymore, that's not going to happen. This is what I mean about the profane becoming normal. Why self-censor the 'normal'? No matter how disgusting it is, it's your "right to free expression".
    Eh, that's nice..whatever. But it's still manure in my book.

    And I do understand the difference between making a movie with drug dealers in it and having to make it realistic and marketing filth just for sensationalism. I'm talking about the latter, not the former.

    (And I love you too, yodafett999. ;) :) )
  16. Devilanse Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    Let me be devil's advocate here.

    Many people use the 1st amendment as a shield to peddle sensationalism...which can get people hurt or killed...
    Just ask Jenny Jones and Jerry Springer.

    If anything should be censored, it should be some people's poor judgment and taste.

  17. yodafett999 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    Gotcha, TeeBee. Just wanted to draw lines in the sand to see where they fit.

  18. Jedi_Master_Anakin Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    Should music be censored?

    No way. I think that censoring music is infringing upon the artists copyright laws. It is annoying to me. I think that censoring is taking away from the intent of the artist. If the artist wanted to song to say the f-word, than it should be in there. It should not be edited because it offends people. I think that is so immature.
  19. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    If the artist wanted to song to say the f-word, than it should be in there. It should not be edited because it offends people. I think that is so immature.

    So if some "artist" created a song with nothing but fart noises to a beat, would you stand up for their (gulp) artistic merit? Usually the F word is considered vulgar. It has nothing to do with immaturity... not many would dare utter the F word in church for example... you must think of them as "immature". The F word is also completely overused... "Yeah, yeah is like dis yall, i wanna break dat f***in lamp, yo"

    Uh, the lamp is "f***in" now?
  20. Falcon Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2002
    star 10
    Music shouldn't be censored, a child is going to hear it from someone like a friend or an older sibling. I know this is true, because I know someone who has a younger sister, and I was told that she was mouthy at the age three.


    Carbon: Yeah, yeah is like dis yall, i wanna break dat censored lamp, yo"

    Uh, the lamp is censored now?


    Please refrain from using abbreiviations in the future, even from song and lyrics. Thank you
  21. yodafett999 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 2000
    star 4
    So if some "artist" created a song with nothing but fart noises to a beat, would you stand up for their (gulp) artistic merit?


    I would. Just because you don't consider it art doesn't mean that someone else doesn't. You define art for yourself and if you don't like it then don't listen to it.
  22. shinjo_jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 5
    Um...Farts to a beat ?[face_plain]

    I wouldn't be buying it :p

    Cheers,
    Shinjo!
  23. TeeBee Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 3
    I have an ex-boyfriend who would! [face_laugh]
  24. Lairis Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    While I wouldn't really have objections to a rating system to help parents out I am fully against actual censorship of music and other forms of expression. In fact here is a Heinlein quote that explains my feelings on censorship rather eloquintly(sp?)


    "I began to sense faintly that secrecy is the keystone of all tyranny. Not force, but secrecy...censorship. When any government, or any church for that matter, undertakes to say to it's subjects, This you may not read, this you must not see, this you are forbidden to know, the end result is tyranny and oppression, no matter how holy the motives. Mighty little force is needed to control a man whose mind has been hoodwinked, contrariwise, no amount of force can control a free man, a man whose mind is free. No, not the rack, not fission bombs, not anything---you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is kill him."
    - John Lyle in If This Goes On--
  25. Falcon Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 7, 2002
    star 10
    farts to a beat?

    I can see my dad buying it. But I sure wouldn't 8-}
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