PT Should Obi-Wan and Yoda have double teamed Palpatine in ROTS?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Polydroxol, Feb 6, 2014.

Moderators: Bazinga'd
  1. Polydroxol Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2014
    star 2
    Instead of taking on one Sith each, should Yoda and Obi -Wan have confronted Palpatine together? If they defeated him, I heavily doubt the Empire would be the same with Vader as its head. Most importantly, he wouldn't be able to name himself Emperor as Palpatine did, which was a big part in the creation of the new empire.
  2. TX-20 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 4
    Obi-Wan knows from experience that two Jedi fighting one Sith does not end well.
  3. Polydroxol Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2014
    star 2
    Not always, for example Darth Maul is only able to defeat Qui-Gon when he is separated from Obi-Wan.
  4. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4
    No. Obiwan would've lasted about as long as the other members of Mace's posse did against Sidious, even with Yoda present. He's jut not at that level.
  5. TX-20 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 21, 2013
    star 4
    To be fair, Obi-Wan doesn't die until ANH so he would have been protected with Plot-Armor.
    Kato Sai and MOC Yak Face like this.
  6. MOC Yak Face Moderator, Classic Trilogy

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 6, 2004
    star 4

    Plot armour. The scourge of so many stormtrooper attacks!
    Big_Benn_Klingon and TX-20 like this.
  7. Polydroxol Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2014
    star 2
    "Come fight with me you shall. Plot-Armor you have"
    Kato Sai, MiWa and TX-20 like this.
  8. Darth_Nub Saga, Classic Trilogy and Film Music Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2009
    star 4
  9. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    Actually - in my opinion - yes. Either they should have both gone after Anakin together (which they would have beaten him) and then gone after the Emperor. Or immediately confront Palpatine. The Emperor only barely beat Yoda (if one wants to argue that he did beat him). A Jedi of Obi-Wan's caliber would have made things very difficult for Palpatine. Although...some could argue that while there is strength in numbers, it is difficult to have a "sword" duel with an ally. Because you constantly have to worry about hitting the other person by accident. Yoda's ninja meets Sonic the Hedgehog flips are not very conducive to having an ally fighting in close quarters with you. He might have gotten in Yoda's way and Palpatine may have dispatched both of them...

    Obviously - it makes sense why they split up. If Obi-Wan and Yoda had both died at the hands of Palpatine (or Anakin) then there would be no one left to take out the other Sith. At least in this case, Anakin was defeated. Unfortunately...Palpatine...not so much...
    Kato Sai, Lord_Anzeroth and Iron_lord like this.
  10. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    Not by himself. Palpatine butchered three Jedi of Obi-Wan's caliber when Mace tried to arrest him.
    Vialco likes this.
  11. Lord Chazza Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2013
    star 4
    I'm pretty sure there's another thread on this subject. I'll try and find it. Anyway, you have to remember that Yoda was trying to save the galaxy from the Sith. He probably figured there wasn't enough time to take them down one at a time. Yoda was also a bit arrogant and must have thought he could handle the Emperor by himself. You can see why he would then order Obi-Wan to take down Vader.
  12. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    It's not really necessary for Obi-wan and Yoda to double team on Anakin because either one of them can defeat him by themselves but the real problem is Emperor PalpSidious. He's already murdered 4 Jedi masters singlehandedly and sent Yoda packing on a trip to Dagobah but even if Obi-wan helped Yoda battle PalpSidious, he would've died just like those 4 Jedi. Both Darth Maul and Count Dooku made Obi-wan look like a bitch when it came to fighting Sith Lords so battling PalpSidious would be suicide for Obi-wan. Yoda knew this which is why he told him, "To fight this Lord Sidious, strong enough you are not", hence why Yoda fought PalpSidious alone while Obi-wan deals with Vadakin.
  13. May_The_Force_Be_With_You Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2014
    star 1
    I didn't say by himself. I am well aware that Palpatine would probably beat Obi-Wan in a one on one fight. I said with Yoda. And I don't agree that Obi-Wan is at low level with those other three Jedi that died by standing there while smiling at Palpatine. But this is something we're likely not to agree on anyways.
  14. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    Obi-Wan is far better in a fight than Fisto, Tiin, or Kolar. By himself he would've been pasted to a wall by Palpatine, but together with Yoda, maybe–maybe–he could've survived the encounter. As someone else said, Yoda's acrobatic lightsaber style probably would've gotten in Obi-Wan's way fighting Anakin, and Obi-Wan would've gotten in Yoda's way fighting Sidious. One-on-one was their only chance and Yoda didn't have what it took. At least, not that day. I always wondered, what if Mace, Yoda, and Obi-Wan had all faced Palpatine together, with Yoda providing Force backup and Obi-Wan and Mace saber-dueling him?
  15. CT-867-5309 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2011
    star 5
    Just have Obi-Wan keep his distance (to keep him relatively safe from Sidious) and provide whatever support he can while Yoda fights up close with a lightsaber.

    Just think of the duel in your mind, and then think "what if Obi-Wan was nearby at that moment?"

    What if Obi-Wan helps out during the TK duel? What if Obi-Wan simply gives Yoda a little push when Yoda was struggling to hang on to the pod?

    What if Obi-Wan knocks Sidious off balance when Sidious was hurling pods?

    There are so many situations where Obi-Wan could have made a difference.

    Of course, playing this game is worthless, since one can never know how it would go. One can speculate, but things don't always turn out how you'd expect, or even how the odds say they should. It's very likely that, if Obi-Wan is present, the duel plays out completely differently, with none of the above examples even occurring.

    What are the odds Sidious simply decides not to play one on two? What if he calls in his guards? What if he escapes by any means necessary? Out the window? Into the streets for people to see two Jedi with lightsabers chasing down the Supreme Chancellor with murderous intent?

    Should they have? I don't see anything that compels me to say they definitely should have.

    This is all ignoring the fact that it is all determined by a writer, and not anything in-universe.
    Revanfan1 likes this.
  16. Cushing's Admirer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2006
    star 6
    That last bit was going to be my point. It wouldn't matter if Palps was doubled teamed or not. The result would still be as GL wanted. Though I do think many are much too hasty to discount Obi-Wan's skills. He is very skilled, he just has the restraint and sense when a bit older to not be nearly as rash as his ex-Padawan and that is a *great* thing. Plus, he's often defensive, likewise a great thing. He's not about brute power and he doesn't care to fight. He is chiefly a man of peace. A shame Anakin didn't absorb more from him.
    Last edited by Cushing's Admirer, Feb 9, 2014
  17. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    Not really. He's just a more high profile character with more feats to his name. The others are all named as among the best in the Order's history and Kit was kicking Grievous's ass as neatly as Obi-Wan ever did in TCW. But I'm of the opinion that obvious hierarchies notwithstanding (Yoda and Mace), the members of the Jedi High Council are more or less on par.

    Ha, had Mace and Yoda double-teamed Sidious, all Obi-Wan would need do is sit back and calmly sip from his beverage of choice.
    SlashMan likes this.
  18. Revanfan1 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 3, 2013
    star 5
    I'm not so sure. Mace told Obi-Wan in the novel that he considered him the master of Soresu. So out of the three only Kit (as you said, he took on Grievous and thrashed him soundly) could be on par with Obi-Wan, because he was considered the master of Shii-Cho. However, Tiin and Kolar were good fighters but not the masters of their forms, so Obi-Wan was at least better than Tiin/Kolar.

    True that. :p
  19. SithStarSlayer Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2003
    star 6
    No. Two Jedi were not sneaking into the new Emperor's office.;)
  20. The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2011
    star 4
    Yes, I think they should have double-teamed Palpatine, right in his office. Though I think Yoda would have lasted longer than Obi-Wan, because of his experience. In fact, I'd be surprised if Obi-Wan lasted more than ten minutes before he lost control of his lightsaber and Palpatine snatched it up and gave him a killing blow.
  21. Palpatine's P.A. Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 9, 2014
    star 1
    Everything points to Obi Wan being pretty handy in a duel, EXCEPT whenever he fights Dooku he just looks a total bitch. That is one thing I really don't like about those duels and why it would suggest that he wouldn't last too long against Dooku's master.
  22. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    In the RoTS novel, Yoda and Obi-Wan do discuss it:

    "Palpatine faced Mace and Agen and Kit and Saesee - four of the greatest swordsmen our order has ever produced. By himself. Even both of us together wouldn't have a chance.'

    'True,' Yoda said, 'But both of us apart, a chance we might create...
    Last edited by Iron_lord, Apr 1, 2014
    Darth Dominikkus likes this.
  23. Vialco Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 6, 2007
    star 4
    Double-teaming Palpatine simply would not work. We see Force-users try to beat Darth Sidious with numbers, in Lawless and ROTS, and both times it fails. Sidious holds them all off, and easily kills the weaker combatants, like Kolar, Tiin, Fisto and Savage. It's only when Sidious is facing off against a single foe, that he actually has to fight harder. In this case, Sidious would have blasted Yoda aside with Force lightning like he did at the beginning of the fight, and then proceeded to overwhelm and kill Obi-Wan quickly, while Yoda was still incapacitated. Then it would be Palpatine vs Yoda, which would end the same way it did in ROTS.

    Obi-Wan lost to Dooku in a lightsaber duel on Geonosis, and though Dooku had to use the Force against him on the Invisible Hand, he was still defeated by the Count's superior power. Sidious's power far surpassed Dooku's, as shown by Yoda's difficulty with absorbing Palpatine's lightning, whereas Dooku's lightning was easily countered and neturalized. Obi-Wan is a powerful Jedi, but he wouldn't be able to contributed any real aid against Sidious. The Emperor would either kill him quickly, or, if the battle was starting to look like a long slog, Palpatine would just call the clones and then retreat once they arrived.

    I always thought that the only reason Palpatine didn't call the guards right away was because he wanted to kill Yoda personally. We see him knock Yoda to the ground with the intial lightning barrage. If Palpatine wanted to call his guards, he could have done it then, and the fact they arrive so quickly after the battle ends, means that they were always within calling range.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  24. Master Jedi Macen Arren Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2013
    star 1
    There's a lot of factors to think about, for example, sometimes the biggest threat can be the surroundings as demonstrated in the 4-1 Mace vs Sidious fight, No room for those guys meaning Sidious was able to take them out quickly. Say the fight panned out the same it did in the film, would Obi-Wan have able to move out the way of the flying pods? How far down would he have fallen while trying to escape them? Would he have been able to get back up as quickly as Yoda to Sidious's pod? How much damage would the lightning have done to him?.

    As a lot of people here have stated, Obi-Wan was nowhere near as powerful as Yoda, Hell if Sidious had blasted him with lightning it may have been to much for him, or knock him out for so long he may never even had time to get on the chamber that took them up into the senate. I mean look at how long Anakin was out for when Dooku blasted him with lightning.

    I think the truth is Yoda was being cautious. He knew Obi-Wan could take on Vader and survive, he also knew that he may survive his encounter with Sidious. It's better to have 2 Jedi than 1. Also as people have said the clones where very near by, and had he been in any danger could have gotten them involved very quickly, taking on a Sith Lord is bad enough, but taking on a Sith Lord and clones I think we all know that ain't going to end well.
    Iron_lord likes this.
  25. SlashMan Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 5, 2012
    star 3
    Obi-Wan is a master swordsman, but against adept Sith Force powers, he's greatly crippled. Dooku took him out with a simple Force choke. His failure against Dooku the first time, I'd attribute that how fatigued me must be from the prior battle.

    With Obi-Wan and Yoda facing Palpatine, one would assume that Palpatine would take out the weaker one first (as before), and focus his efforts on taking Obi-Wan out quickly before dealing with Yoda. As a swordsman, Obi-Wan could hold his own, but when Force abilities are thrown into the equation, Palpatine has much more power over him.
Moderators: Bazinga'd