Should people be sterilized against their will?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by CarbonKnight, Jul 17, 2002.

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  1. Ramius Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 3
    I DO feel that the old Eugenics movement was wrong and if Ramius was trying to expose their ignorance, then that was justified.

    I guess I should have explained that link a little more. Yes, I was trying to show the stupidity of the old eugenics. I posted that link back when the debate about sterilizing retarded people was going on, and I just wanted to show people that it had aleady been tried and it didn't work out.

    I'm all for the new eugenics. If what you're talking about is what they did in the movie Gattica, then thats cool. If I ever have kids, I want to weed out any really bad things. My uncle was an alcoholic, and died from kidney failure and a damaged liver, so I want my kids to have to best start in life.
  2. DarksiderGeorge Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 2
    Ah very good, Ramius The movement will need your help when it comes time to vote on such matters!! The Crusade appreciates enlightened and motivated persons such as yourself!! Bravo!
  3. BKK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 3
    Starfire, I didn't mean if there was something wrong with you like depression or whatnot that bam you would be sterilized. What I meant is that the sexual predators and/or repeat violent criminals should be. I meant it more for the really, really unfit people who have no business raising a child.

    If we started sterilizing people it would have to adhere to the very highest standards. I know it goes against a person's basic civil rights, but I look at it this way. You lose all your basic human rights when you commit cold-blooded murder, rape or any really violent crime.
  4. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I know it goes against a person's basic civil rights

    If we start accepting that, we're headed down a dark road with no end in sight.

    You lose all your basic human rights

    Never. You never stop being a person. You never stop being human. You might lose your political rights, but you never lose your rights as a human being.
  5. Kimball_Kinnison Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2001
    star 6
    Here's an interesting point to consider: from the perspective of the gene pool, sterilizing someone is like killing them. Is there anyone here who supports sterilizing a person but does not support the death penalty? I'd be interested in hearing why?

    Kimball Kinnison
  6. BKK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 3
    Knightwriter, so what would you do if someone murdered your parents. Would you want that person to be a parent to a child. I think if you make the conscience decision to take a human life than you lose your civil rights.
  7. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    You cannot take away human rights. It's like trying to change the past. It's set in stone.

    A person is born with human rights that can never be taken away. You can lose your political freedom and rights, but you can never lose your human rights. If someone murdered my parents or my family, that wouldn't change their status as a human being. It would make them a felon and they would lose some other rights, but not any of their human rights.

    If we as a society ever stop recognizing those rights for anyone, we're in major trouble.
  8. BKK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 3
    Okay, let's say he went to prison for murder. He then had conjugal visits and then fathered a child. Let's say that the mother was an addict or something. They would be considered unfit parents. I know it's not right to take away a person's civil libeties but 100% pre-meditated cold blooded murder gets no sympathy from me. If you make the conscience decision to take a human life then why should we care about the killer's needs. What about the rights of the people's lives he ended.
  9. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I'm not sure you're getting what I'm saying.

    You cannot lose your human rights.

    You can talk all you'd like about what these people have done, but they don't become sub-human or lose their rights. If you are a living person, you have human rights than can never be lost.
  10. BKK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2002
    star 3
    I know what you're saying, but I am more of the opinion an eye for an eye type of thing. I never said it would be right to take away a person's civil liberties.
  11. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    It's not a matter of right and wrong. You can't do it at all, so it's a moot point. You can refuse to recognize them, but that's another matter.


    I'm not an eye for an eye person. As Gandhi (and others) have said, an eye for an eye makes the world blind. I would hope that I would be able to forgive a person for what they've done and not let that person (or people) control my life through hatred.
  12. Lady_Jedi26 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 17, 2001
    star 4
    i guess there are some circumstances yes that you would think sterilization would be for the common good. I just dont think if it were my decision to say you should be sterilized that i could in all honesty say it. It just seems so inhumane.
  13. DarksiderGeorge Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 29, 2002
    star 2
    One of the first steps that the Eugenics Movement must do, is to reverse the cultural belief that one must have a child to be a "complete" citizen in the society. As a culture, there is FAR TOO MUCH emphasis on being a parent. I vote for larger tax breaks for parentless citizens than those with children. Would you guys vote for that?
    Ironically, the freedom to be a parent is the one of the most enslaving things a person can choose.

    What do you guys think about making people learn how to be parents before they can legally do so? A huge amount of resources goes to taking care of children that should have not been born yet!! These resources could have been spent on you guys,who IMO,would benefit society much more!!
  14. StarFire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    Society isn't made, it becomes. Society is a bunch of people getting together and going with it.

    When the government begins to 'guide' society, problems often emerge.
  15. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    This topic should have been locked and deleted. I am not going to discuss this anymore as the first post of this thread was meant to do nothing but incite the people of this forum with common sense to respond in a hostile manner. I would call this trolling, and ban the person causing the problem, not the people that respond, even if the responders flame.

    I am sorry I forgot the S in fascist and that I stated a fact. Fascism in this case was not a flame, but an accurate description of the views of a poster, as his views on this issue coincide with those of fascists.
  16. citizen-tom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    I agree with AYBABTU, and I dont care if it gets me banned either. I just read this thread and CarbonKnights complete neglect of Human rights is sickening! He is obviously the one with the head problems. the thought of sterilizing a person just because they are mentally retarted is just as bad as the thought of racism, and genocidal acts, yes, such as hitler. Im going to lose the salad i just ate for dinner!
  17. citizen-tom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    1.lets be predjudce against a group of people just for being different

    2.lets take rights away from people just for being different

    3.lets sterilize a group of people just for being different

    4.lets kill a bunch of people just for being different

  18. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    This topic should have been locked and deleted. I am not going to discuss this anymore as the first post of this thread was meant to do nothing but incite the people of this forum with common sense to respond in a hostile manner. I would call this trolling, and ban the person causing the problem, not the people that respond, even if the responders flame.

    I am sorry I forgot the S in t and that I stated a fact. m in this case was not a flame, but an accurate description of the views of a poster, as his views on this issue coincide with those of ts.


    The evolution thing was actually a joke. The loud motorcycle thing was kind of a joke, but also a plug for my distaste of motorcyclists. As for trailer trash and criminals, I see we have some supporters!

    I agree with AYBABTU, and I dont care if it gets me banned either. I just read this thread and CarbonKnights complete neglect of Human rights is sickening! He is obviously the one with the head problems. the thought of sterilizing a person just because they are mentally retarted is just as bad as the thought of , and genocidal acts, yes, such as . Im going to lose the salad i just ate for dinner!

    Blue Yoda Society member. 'Nuff said.

    1.lets be predjudce against a group of people just for being different

    2.lets take rights away from people just for being different

    3.lets sterilize a group of people just for being different

    4.lets kill a bunch of people just for being different


    Is this your sarcastic statement or society's?
  19. CoolGuy Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2001
    Well, I thought we had a no humor rule in the Senate...


    As for this issue, I am for sterilization of convicted criminals and the creation of laws that prohibit someone that has multipule children and does not pay child support from creating new children.
  20. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Is this your sarcastic statement or society's?

    I think that was his summary of what views he gathered from your posts.
  21. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    4.lets kill a bunch of people just for being different

    Wow, this is exactly what I think. Thanks for clearing it up.

    Oh BTW, it's not just for being "different"...
  22. citizen-tom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    hmmm... bye saying that im a BYS member 'nuff said

    even in humour, i think your being predjuduce.

    also youll be suprised to know that at the BYS ezboard we took survey to see what drew us together and we found out the most of us were either minoring or majoring in political areas or where taking a political course in high school
  23. CarbonKnight Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 19, 2002
    star 4
    hmmm... bye(sic) saying that im(sic) a BYS member 'nuff said

    even in humour, i think your being predjuduce(sic).

    also youll(sic) be suprised to know that at the BYS ezboard we took (sic)survey to see what drew us together and we found out the most of us were either minoring or majoring in political areas or where(sic) taking a political course in high school


    Maybe I am being "predjuduce". But maybe I'm justified.
  24. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Essentially, your logic is similar to the logic used by people who supported segregation and slavery the United States and elsewhere. In other words, even though those people were/are prejudiced, it was justifed because of what it dealt with (in their eyes).
  25. citizen-tom Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2002
    star 5
    i dunno maybe you are justified to think less of us just cause we decide to have fun in a joke thread

    i dunno maybe you are justified to think less of people just for being born with the curse of being mentally retarted
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