Should Qui-Gon Jinn appear as a Jedi ghost?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith (Non-Spoilers)' started by Kit-Fisto7BA, Mar 23, 2003.

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  1. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    GARTH_MAUL, who told you my theory!?! :D
  2. Porkins_Dietician Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 16, 2002
    star 1
    If lucas did that I am sure that he would vanish from the face of the earth. :p
  3. scuiggefest Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    I watched the scene several times tonight.

    Darth Maul's body definitely disappears as he falls down the shaft. Da_Joker agrees with me and so does my other brother.
  4. Garth Maul Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 6
    okay, I'm going to go watch it.

    I think what you're seeing is called perception.

    The sun looks like it's a big ball of light with a diameter of 6 inches in the sky. However, it is millions of miles away.

    Darth Maul looks like he disappears, because when the distance between grows to a certain extent, you can no longer see him.

    If I was standing 5 feet away from you wearing a grey hoodie, you could probably read the adidas label.

    If you were standing on the top of the Empire State Building and I was on the street, I'd look like a dot, and you might not even be able to tell I was wearing a grey hoodie.

    Scuigge, I understand what you're saying, but this seems more like trying to fit facts to a pre-conceived theory that an actual unbiased observation.;)

    Plus, if Maul was meant to disappear, I'm sure Lucas would make it obvious.

    Then again, considering the Vader debates (do we even know if he disappeared?), maybe not.
  5. scuiggefest Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 8, 2002
    star 4
    Yeah I guess I always sort of assumed his body disappeared. The view switches back to Obi-Wan before Maul's clothes disappear into the depths, but in the second after Maul's head disappears it looks to me like his clothes lose the weight inside them and flutter down slowly.

    It could be just that ILM didn't spend a lot of time to perfect that particular scene. If Maul came back as a ghost it would be a surprise for GARTH_MAUL, that's for sure
  6. arrowheadpodracer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 5
    I dont get the whole disappearing/ reappearing as a ghost thing. But I am convinced that Maul does not disappear.
    I know Qui-Gon doesnt either.
    And neither does Anakin (that we can SEE).

    I still want to see Qui-Gon as a ghost or vision of some kind.
    And I think we will.
  7. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "Then again, considering the Vader debates (do we even know if he disappeared?), maybe not."

    In the film, no. On the website, yes. On the TPM DVD commentary, Lucas compares Qui-gon's funeral pyre to Anakin's.

    It's a toss-up. I don't even think Lucas knows for sure. ;)

    "Yeah I guess I always sort of assumed his body disappeared."

    He did disappear, [Obi-wan] from a certain point of view. [/Obi-wan] :D
  8. jedimastertess Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2003
    maybe not as a ghost...but as a voice like in episode 2. i think while anakin and obi-wan are fighting, he will try to get anakin to stop going to the darkside and then give obi-wan hints on how to take down anakin.
  9. Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group

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    Member Since:
    Nov 21, 2000
    star 4
    Obi-Wan is fighting Anakin...
    voice of Qui-Gon: "Trust the force, Obi-Wan!"
    Mace Windu: "Hey, Obi-Wan, you switched off your targeting computer. What's up?"
    Obi-Wan: "Everything's alright..."


    A good theory would be if either all beings became one in the force and lost their identity in the process (which would mean some Jedi only stall the process), or that there is an afterlife in the force where everyone keeps their identity, even non-Jedi.
    Qui-Gon would be the first to actually come back from the afterlife and give the living a proof for a continued existence. You could say that he has unifnished business to take care of (and who would be better to be included in this than a little boy...?). Later on, Jedi who know this possibility learn to go back, too.
    This would explain the whole ghost-thing better and would provide us with a "happy end", as even Han will be there in the afterlife when he dies (although he hasn't got the Midi-Chlorians).
    The other version fits better with the religious concept behind the force, of a life force from which everything comes and where everything goes back.

    So we have to wait till ep3. I guess it still won't be clear after that, but there will be some background-book in which some guy sells us his opinion with a Lucasfilm label, so it will be official...
  10. Nathy_Wan_Kanathy Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2003
    MAUL DOES DISSAPEAR... He turns into a crappy dummy with a rubber face displaying shock as he falls down the pit.

    And with the debate earlier on yoda using sith teachings to enhance his force abilities, i have 1 thing to quote to you Garth_Maul... "Know thy enemies", Yoda is obviously powerful enough to overlook sith teachings and remain unnafected.. i mean, who wouldn't be able to push away the darksides temptation with 800 years of the light side under your belt?
  11. KNIRE_DARK Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 18, 2002
    star 1
    I read a few concerns about why Anakin (according the official site) disappears after dying in ROTJ. Simple, he was conceived by the Force. If the Chosen One can't retain his identity after death, I'm not holding out much hope for ol' Qui-Gonn, tho I do like the theory that identity retention was a Sith teaching and that Dooku taught Qui-Gonn when he was his Padawan, Qui-Gonn teaches Obi-Wan (in the hopes that he'll use it for good), Obi-Wan teaches Yoda after the Jedi have been slaughtered (because they have to be around to help Luke fulfill the prophecy) and Sidious teaches Vader. But then if that were true, why doesn't Sidious appear as a Force ghost? Meditate further on htis, I will.
  12. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Qui-Gon Jinn will appear as a Force Spirit.

    I'm positively certain.
    His character had always something special about him, there was always something that meant that he had more to do with the story than just TPM.
    In AOTC he tried to connect with Anakin to safe guard him from giving into his Darkside. He failed only because Anakin could not hear him. But yet Yoda could, though Yoda is visibly shaken and disturbed by such an occurance.
    So what in Episode 3 is the next evolutionary step?

    Qui-Gon Jinn does not appear to Anakin, no by the time Qui-Gon does it will be too late.
    He instead appears to Yoda & Obi-Wan, and could possibly reveal to them certain things, that as someone who is beyond the grave can divulge or consults to give them the guidance they need to what they must do now (assuming this is after the Empire has taken its strange hold and the children must be hidden).

    Obviously this is just my speculation but I firmly believe Qui-Gon will be a spirit and ultimately has to be. Because his view on things was ultimately the right way, which the Jedi Order and dismissed to their peril. And Obi-Wan & Yoda, eventually learn from because of Qui-Gon. Truely the wisest Jedi in a flawed Order.
  13. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    I am most sure Qui-Gon will be in EpIII in some capacity. I remember way back in 99 when TPM promotions were a big thing, seeing Liam on some show kind of hinting that his role might not yet be complete. Qui-Gon's story doesn't feel complete by any means. I would like to see him return to Obi-Wan. The whole Force ghost thing is going to get explained methinks.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  14. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Well I thought I'd up this thread and change my reasoning for why Qui-Gon will appear as a Jedi Spirit.

    Its all to do with the Buddhist notion of the Bodhisattva.

    An enlightened being who, out of compassion, forgoes nirvana in order to save others.

    I'm surprised no-one has made this link before (or if they have I must have missed it).

    It seems now looking on it, that Lucas is showing us a Jedi version of the Buddhist Bodhisattva.

    Qui-Gon Jinn has delayed his becoming one with the Force, because of his compassion towards living beings (due to his strong contact with the Living Force) and sets out to save certain individuals.
    In AOTC there was a connection made between Anakin's suffering/pain and Qui-Gon Jinn's voice/identity.
    This isn't as confusing as it seems.
    In Buddhism the belief is that when someone is suffering pain, the Bodhisattva reaches out and with his/her compassion attempts to save that person.
    The idea is that if the connection is made and the person hears the Bodhisattva's words then he/she can be saved. Remember Obi-Wan speaking to Luke? Luke didn't understand why he heard Kenobi's voice but in the end followed Kenobi's advice and survived. Therefore Obi-Wan saved Luke.
    Unfortunately with Anakin, Qui-Gon was unable to save him.
    It is possible (though we do not know because it wasn't in the film) that Anakin did hear Qui-Gon shouting out but such was he consumed by his thirst for revenge that he did not listen or was unable to hear him.

    So who does Qui-Gon try to reach out to? For who else heard him?
    Well I've save the Duh comments......it was Yoda.
    And it is Yoda whom he will appear to in Episode 3. For in his failed attempt(possibly attempts?) to save Anakin, he either warns, advises or just speaks to the wisened Jedi Master. And this is the source of how Obi-Wan and Yoda learn of the technique we see in the OT.

    It is only through Qui-Gon Jinn's halting of his joining in nirvana (or becoming one with the Force) that he regains his identity so that he might save those whose suffering could be soothed by his compassion.


    Hmmm sorry if this is kinda mumbled and doesn't quite make sense....its just something I stumbled upon.
  15. Master-Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2002
    star 5
    I don't think he should but I think he will
  16. jediart Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2001
    star 3
    Should Qui-Gon Jin appear as a Jedi ghost?
    It would be COOL!!!
  17. arrowheadpodracer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 5
    DarthTerrious - That is pretty cool! :)
    I like it. I like it a lot.



    Qui-Gon will return!! :D
  18. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Also if you think of the religious overtones that Lucas uses, the PT & OT are now coming to a joining of Western and Eastern thought, which is most recognisable in the Jedi's retaining their identity after death.

    In AOTC, as I've said, is where the Bodhisattva notion is seen most notably.

    But in Episode 3 (and later in the OT) we'll see a melding of the Bodhisattva and the Western concept of a Guardian Angel.
    For Obi-Wan, most importantly, doesn't just become a saviour of those who suffer (Luke) but he then transcends both the Living and dead world by appearing as a spirit (Christian reality - Holy Ghost), therefore guiding the hero or whoever he is reaching out to with his own compassion.

    In Episode 3, Qui-Gon Jinn will make this "leap" and tie West with East.
  19. sidious1 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 5, 2002
    star 6
    I've always had this theory. Jedi can only return as ghosts if they die of natural causes or decide their own fate as Obi Wan did in ANH. Qui Gon did not choose to die at the hands of Maul so he cannot return. I only say this because if every Jedi could return you would have Jedi popping up all over the place and as we all know this is not the case.

    Just as a foot note, I think that AOTC would have been the time for Qui Gon to return if he was going to do so.

    "Let's play!"
  20. GrandTheftWatto Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 1
    Most everyone here is assuming that the act of jedi "disappearing" is tied to their ability to reappear as "force ghosts".


    These two things may not be related at all.


  21. SULTANOFSITH Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 1, 2002
    YES,he could explain the idea of "becoming one with the force"to OBI-WAN & Yoda,OR he could try to appeal to Anakin before he completes his turn to the dark side.I think the theory of giving yourself over to the force ex plains why none of the Jedi disappeared in AOTC and why Qui-Gon didn't in TPM;none of them were ready to die,none of them had a chance to surrender themselves to the force.Obi-Wan knew this when he faced Vader in ANH,Yoda let go in ROTJ.They were ready to go.
  22. Darth_Blight0925 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2003
    star 3
    It is highly likely Liam will not want to come back... Those english actors hate starwars... He doesn't have to come back, and I dont think he will..
  23. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    It is highly likely Liam will not want to come back... Those english actors hate starwars... He doesn't have to come back, and I dont think he will..

    Erm they don't hate Star Wars, whatever got you thinking that?

    Liam, Ewan and many of the other English actors love being in Star Wars. Its the filming it thats the drag, which I can fully understand.

    Liam will be back, I promise you. ;)
  24. Ghost_Jedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2003
    star 5
    It is highly likely Liam will not want to come back... Those english actors hate starwars... He doesn't have to come back, and I dont think he will..

    Liam is Irish :mad: Dont ever make that mistake again - or a lightsaber will be in your future
  25. Kit-Fisto7BA Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 21, 2003
    star 3
    I hope he comes back.I don't care if he's a hologram,a voice,or a ghost.
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