Should radio hosts Opie & Anthony have been fired for airing sex at St. Patrick's Cathedral?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Master-Jedi-Smith, Aug 26, 2002.

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  1. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    "In the case of the priests, they consider it an internal matter, between the church and God."

    That certainly sounds like they think they are above the law.

    As if the church and God have the right to deal with this situation in the manner that they did.

    How can you say they don't think this? Are you trying to justify their actions?

    Latre! :D
  2. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    As if the church and God have the right to deal with this situation in the manner that they did.

    How can you say they don't think this? Are you trying to justify their actions?


    I wish you would not be so superficial and simplistic. This was a tremendously complex situation, and still is. For a long time, things were dealt with internally in the Church (be it good or bad). When you've done something a certain way for a long time, you keep going with it. I'm not saying they should have handled it that way, only why the Church did handle it that way. Many would say that things should still be internal matters, unless they are criminal in nature. Don't be so quick to throw out a people's way of believing and doing things just because it doesn't suit you.

    It wasn't just a matter of allegations and then getting thrown to the wolves. Many mistakes were made, but it irks me that you see it as being so simple and easy.
  3. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    I believe my posts were labeled thinly veiled attack on the Church and Catholics.

    Well, some individuals' posts here appear to be nothing more than thinly veiled justifications for the way the catholic church handled the molestation of children.


    Latre! :D
  4. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    No, I'm not trying to justify the way the Church did things. I'm trying to explain why they did things that way. Don't be so quick to judge.


  5. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Like the Catholic League was with the two DJs?


    Latre! :D
  6. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    No, that is a different matter. Sex in a church is wrong by most people's standards, and they were dealt with accordingly. Abuse of children is wrong by just about anyone's standards. However, the process of dealing with it is *much* more complex.
  7. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Appearently only in the eyes of the church, since as you said, abuse of children is wrong by just about anyone's standards.

    Each one is against the law. What's so hard to understand about that.

    What if it had been a priest and a nun who had sex in the church, and had it broadcasted over the air waves?

    I would really like to see how that would have been handled.

    Latre! :D

    Edit: Well, if not agreeing with how an organization handles child molestation, and justifies allowing child molesters to go about their normal lives, is called not being understanding of that organization, I don't want to understand it. Which is the reason I went my seperate ways with the catholic church many years ago.

    (not that I was molested or anything)

    Latre! :D
  8. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    That certainly sounds like they think they are above the law.

    As if the church and God have the right to deal with this situation in the manner that they did.

    How can you say they don't think this? Are you trying to justify their actions?


    Not necessarily "above the law", but more, "apart from the law," I guess. As I said, I don't agree with that viewpoint. There are certain actions for which the church is the only authority to assign punishment: blasphemy, extramarital sex, etc. And this can be applied only to church members, as the church has no jurisdiction over the general public.

    However, when a crime is committed, even within the Catholic church, the government still has jurisdiction. The problem, I think, is that the church pressures its members not to go to the police because it is, after all, an "internal" matter and they don't want outsiders getting involved. If church members and/or officials commit crimes, they should be punished, because they are governed by the same laws as the rest of us.

  9. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    And that is what I am trying to say.

    Again, as I have said before, it's a "Good old boys" mentality.

    And it is just that simple. The law's the law, and should make no exceptions. Just as people have been arguing about how the couple should have been arrested for what they did because it was against the law, no matter where they might have done it, the same should go for any child molesters, no matter who the perpetrator is.

    Latre! :D
  10. womberty Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 21, 2002
    star 4
    But the law can't go after anyone if they don't know what's happening. I imagine that most of the concerned people in the Catholic League who protested about Opie & Anthony would have also demanded action on the priest molestation cases if they had known about them. The problem is probably that the church officials who know about the problem are concerned about their public image and use the "internal matter" excuse not to publicize problems within the church. That doesn't mean that all Catholics agree with it; it's probably, as with many other things, limited to the few people with the power to control the situation.
  11. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    What you continually fail to understand is that the process for dealing with the radio people was going from point A to point B, and that was it.

    The process for dealing with possible child abusing priests is going from A to B to C to D and so on. You don't just turn a priest over to the wolves without strong evidence. There needs to be some kind of investigation into things. Once that process has been concluded, then you turn them over and the law does what it should.

    Again, as I have said before, it's a "Good old boys" mentality.


    I really don't understand how this applies here.
  12. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Very true womberty. Very true.

    Except, I still don't see the kind of outrage by the public or church community that one would think would come about from such a crime.

    Here you have people ready to condemn two people who haven't even had their day in court for having sex in a church, and on the other hand, you have a taped confession from a Cardinal who is still in "power".

    Why is this?


    Latre! :D
  13. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Except, I still don't see the kind of outrage by the public or church community that one would think would come about from such a crime.


    ARE YOU BLIND?

    I'm going to gather up some old threads from here, and some news articles from this year. I hope you have some time on your hands, as you will no doubt enjoy reading about the public outrage that swept the country regarding the sexual abuse scandal.
  14. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    "Good old boys" mentality.

    They are looking out for each other, even if it violates the law. This was seen throughout the South where those in charge (the local law enforcement and courts) looked the other way in cases of racial violence.

    Latre! :D
  15. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Of course they are looking out for each other. I would hope so. It is a brotherhood. It's like the Armed Forces or anything of that nature. It's not wrong to look out for each other, so long as they hold each other accountable. Obviously, that wasn't always the case, but to say that the brotherhood shouldn't be there is not true at all.
  16. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Except, I still don't see the kind of outrage by the public or church community that one would think would come about from such a crime.


    ARE YOU BLIND?


    Actually, I'am. I don't see any marches, protests, speeches, etc. etc. coming from people who attend church. Again, they're not responding like they should have!


    Of course they are looking out for each other. I would hope so. It is a brotherhood. It's like the Armed Forces or anything of that nature. It's not wrong to look out for each other, so long as they hold each other accountable. Obviously, that wasn't always the case, but to say that the brotherhood shouldn't be there is not true at all.

    Brotherhood or no, they should still have turned these sex offenders in. The fact that they've done very little, and in fact have even helped child molestors run free should give people a reason NOT to listen to them. Baah! Sheep like behavior. [face_plain]
  17. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Well, if there was so much public outrage as you suggest there was, I would think that more action would have been taken.

    But, I suppose just like any other tragedy in this country, Americans are quick to forget.

    I suppose you will also say that there is still a large group of people outraged by 9/11. (Oh boy, look out! I may have opened a hornet's nest with that one! :p )

    Latre! :D
  18. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Well, if there was so much public outrage as you suggest there was, I would think that more action would have been taken.


    There HAS been action taken. The bishops were called to the Vatican about it, and they met in Dallas for discussing new ways of dealing with the scandal. Also, dozens of priests across the nation have been turned in by their respective dioceses. I'd call that action.

    To say that there was outrage over this scandal is the same as saying there was no outrage over what happened on September 11. That's the kind of statement you are making. People were angry about it, people were hurt, and they wanted answers. I read about it in countless articles and debated about it time and again here.

    Brotherhood or no, they should still have turned these sex offenders in. The fact that they've done very little, and in fact have even helped child molestors run free should give people a reason NOT to listen to them. Baah! Sheep like behavior.

    I agree they should have turned them in. I'm not saying they shouldn't have. I think what you say about helping child molestors run free is greatly exaggerated from reality, and that a great deal of action has been taken to turn in offending priests and to change policy on these matters.
  19. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Anyone remember when Shenad O'Connor ripped up the picture of the pope? I think Cathloics were far more outraged by that than they were about this. She even got booed off stage for cripes sake!


    I agree they should have turned them in. I'm not saying they shouldn't have. I think what you say about helping child molestors run free is greatly exaggerated from reality, and that a great deal of action has been taken to turn in offending priests and to change policy on these matters.


    As I recall didn't they create some rule where one strike you're out? But for the ones who offended before this rule they'd give them some leeway? Something like that.
  20. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I am literally sickened and digusted by this.

    To say there was no outrage is ridiculous and just about every word of disbelief I can imagine. It's spitting on the faces of parents and Catholics (and non-Catholics) who have been outraged throughout the year.

    I am through with this discussion.
  21. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I agree with KnightWriter. *Shakes head sadly*
  22. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    But, from what I have seen, not much has been done about it.

    Oh, they had meetings about how to FINALLY deal with such things. And individuals were FINALLY turned over.

    Why? Because it after many years, it all came out.

    I have seen cases of people who just possess child pornography get railroaded quicker than anything I have seen when dealing with the church.

    Said case occured in Iowa City, IA, and the man was a janitor at an elementary school. How long do you think he was allowed to keep his job, which included working around children?

    And still we have priests who are know molesters, or allowed it to go on, still being allowed to preach.

    (P.S. For the record I don't find child pornography acceptable.)

    Latre! :D
  23. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    KnightWriter,

    "I am through with this discussion."

    But wasn't it you who told me not to back down, even after I had asked if we could change the line of discussion?

    Well, let me just say this. I think we can all agree on the fact that child molestation is wrong, but that we disagree on the degree of outrage, and punishment that was dealt out over this situation.

    I guess as long as we have the children's best interest in mind (unlike the church did for so many years) I can live with that.

    Latre! :D
  24. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I am through with this discussion for right now so I do not say or do anything I would regret.

    I am too angry and disgusted for any reasonable discussion.
  25. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Why are you so angry?

    We just have a different view on the issue.

    Latre! :D
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