Should radio hosts Opie & Anthony have been fired for airing sex at St. Patrick's Cathedral?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Master-Jedi-Smith, Aug 26, 2002.

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  1. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    You must be blind if you don't understand why I'm angry.

    I experienced something personally in my own life and listened and talked with people who were outraged over this, read news articles that had people who were outraged and calling for changes, saw a former parish priest be accused of sexual abuse, discussed and debated most of all of the above here and in other places, and you're telling me it never existed?

    THAT is why I am angry. I am being told that things that I experienced and and saw firsthand aren't true. Something that is very important to me personally.

    If you don't understand, well, I don't understand either.
  2. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Oh, I understand, and can sympathize, but they really haven't done much. That whole thing with the Vatican and that meeting in texas was a big smoke and mirrors trick. Change, riight...

    Again, I have nothing against the faith, but the thing is what's happened as far as 'change' and 'reform' go have been zero to none.
  3. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    I never said it didn't exist.

    I just believe more should be done about the situation than I have seen.

    Not to point fingers again, but wasn't I labeled bias against the church?

    Seems to me someone else is being bias themselves.

    But that's just me.

    Latre! :D
  4. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Except, I still don't see the kind of outrage by the public or church community that one would think would come about from such a crime.


    I think any normal observer would look at this and say, "hmm... he doesn't think people were very outraged by what happened."

    That's saying the huge amount of outrage didn't exist.

    I'm not talking about the amount of change that has or has not been put into place. I'm talking about the tremendous amount of anger, hurt and outrage that erupted when these cases were made public.



  5. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Well, as I said before, we just have a different view on this.

    Because you have gone through something personally, of course it affects you more than me. It was right in your "face."

    I on the other hand, being an outside observer, don't see that it has been dealt with as appropriately as I think it should be.

    I'm not here to pick a fight, or bash someone's beliefs.

    Latre! :D
  6. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    Look break it down like this.

    The two radio DJ's incident. Breaking the law by having sex in a public place. Cut and dry, and yes since it happened in a church the people in charge of the church have every right to press the charges and want the maximum penalty. It's no different if these idiots had sex in a grocery store in the milk isle.


    The situation dealing with Preists molesting kids.

    First off this is not an isolated thing. This is nation wide and EVERY single one of them must be handled seperately, until evidence can be gathered to link 2 or 20 cases to one suspect. That is the law. These cases are sensitive in nature dealing with no consenting adults but with kids. So extra means of sensitivity must be done. Now as for the Catholic Church handling the situation from the inside rather than letting the authorities handling it is BS. They cannot exclude the law of the area into a case against a clergy member. An investigation will happen if there is first a victim and then witnesses, physical evidence the whole nine yards. Now if the Catholic Church is covering things up with certain individuals then that is obstruction of justice, but proof must still be provided before a criminal investigation can take place. Several interviews and testimonies must be done. Long and complicated, and it's not cut and dry like the two idiot DJ's. That is a 2 minutes sentencing hearing. Those individuals found to have evidence linking them to having molested a child will be dealt with in the harshest matter, and then if that does not happen then a higher institution of the law must step in. Also I would like to add that ripping a picture of the Pope up would be offensive to Catholics all over the world because your spitting on a man they love and respect and your basically disrespecting them as well when you do it. There has been plenty of outrage for what has happened recently but it's a different type of outrage. This is not coming from an outside source like a Bald idiot like OConner, but from within. It will be handled differently.

    I think I remembered you and I had a debate some time ago about the communist hunt in the 1950's. I think you can say the same thing is going on in the Catholic Church today. Looking for anything out of the ordinary is fine but at the same time putting every single member of the clergy on a lie detector test will do you no good.

    I would also like to go on record to say I'm not a Catholic so before anyone says I'm standing up for my religious group then think again. I was born and raised Babtist. However I'm a non practicing Christian at the moment.
  7. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    I on the other hand, being an outside observer, don't see that it has been dealt with a appropriately as I think it should be.


    Again, I'm not talking about how it was dealt with. I'm talking about people's reactions and feelings, which were filled with anger, hurt and outrage. The gist I've gotten so far is that little to none of that was present.

    Edit: We often disagree, Pigfeet, but your thoughts on this matter are particularly appreciated.
  8. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    First,

    As far as I know, it was only the couple who were arrested (and that comedian Paul Mercurio) as far as I know. The DJs were only "let go" to my knowledge.

    This couple, as far as I know, has not even had their day in court. I don't even know if they actually had sex. Like you said, they need evidence, witnesses, etc....

    Second,

    There have been taped confessions of the cover up, but have those people who allowed it to occur been brought to justice?

    And as stated before, the church has said that they will still allow those who have "one strike" to continue as priests.

    All I am seeing are different standerds being applied when you deal with the "brotherhood" of the church.


    And third,

    I don't want to see another "hunt" for communists in this case. I believe in due process. But when other believe that they can skip that all together, then I do have a problem.

    Latre! :D
  9. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    And as stated before, the church has said that they will still allow those who have "one strike" to continue as priests.

    All I am seeing are different standerds being applied when you deal with the "brotherhood" of the church.


    Have you heard of Ex Post facto? People cannot be punished for crimes that were committed before a law takes effect. You know that. Now, the reasoning of the priests who have been accused is that they would be given jobs that are far away from any contact with minors, but still allow them to be productive priests in some way. I'm not saying I agree with it, just that that's the rationale behind it.



  10. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    "I'm not talking about how it was dealt with."

    I guess that is where I am coming from. I am talking about how it was dealt with.

    For argument's sake, let's agree that there was this nation wide outrage. The molestation of children as we have all agreed upon is horrible.

    For such a horrible act, and so much outrage, I, myself, would have thought that more action on rectifying the situation would have taken place, and that more "heads" would roll for allowing this terrible act to have continued for as long as it did.

    I guess you feel that enough has already been done, and the matter is closed.

    I don't, and feel more things could, and should be done.

    Latre! :D
  11. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    "People cannot be punished for crimes that were committed before a law takes effect."

    As far as I know, molesting children has been against the law for awhile.

    Or are we talking about the "Church's" law?

    Latre! :D
  12. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    That's true, molesting children has been against the law for a long time.

    I don't feel now that enough has been done. However, I feel that strides have been taken. A lot of priests' names from both the past and the present have been turned over. Many previously kept files have been turned over as well.

    The Church has moved slowly throughout its history. Sometimes that's good, sometimes it's not. In this case, it is not. However, keep in mind that there needs to be a protection against witch hunts and false accusations. Care must be taken. Changes are happening right now. Things just don't happen overnight.
  13. TOUCHPUMP Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2002
    star 1
    Ex Post facto?

    Weren't crimes committed and covered up by local Parishes? That I have seen first hand with two priests from an old parish I frew up in.

    And yes there has been plenty of outrage. My outrage is that the Church has been covering this up for years. That is what has annoyed me for a very long time; even before we saw this as a news story.

    Although it is not popular I am sure there is a case for state District Attorney's for molestation cases and some form of cover up. I believe at one point some states were discussing evoking RICO Statutes.

    BTW Opie and Anthony still are boring and not funny. Fired? If I were the Station Manager I would be worried about losing advertisers. Howard Stern Rules!
  14. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    That was a bad usage of the term on my part. My apologies. I'm not sure what my reasoning was on that (it made sense at one point, but not now).

  15. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    KnightWriter,

    I am happy to say that I totally agree with your last post.

    I have nothing to argue with you on it.

    :::curses:::


    :p

    Not that this should be the end of this discussion, but I am glad that we can at least agree on something.

    :)

    Latre! :D
  16. TOUCHPUMP Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2002
    star 1
    KnightWriter,

    That is why you never let an argument become emotional.

    You will always lose even if you are right.
  17. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    KnightWriter,

    I meant the post before your last post! :)

    Latre! :D
  18. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    KnightWriter,

    That is why you never let an argument become emotional.

    You will always lose even if you are right.


    Interesting statement. I think this was probably the first time I've ever become truly emotionally upset on the JC in my time here.

    Jedi-Smith, yes, I'm glad we have something to agree on :).
  19. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Well, I wouldn't take that as a bad thing. :)

    At least you care enough about something to get upset about it. :)


    Edit: Or is that really a bad thing? I can't make up my mind about that. :p

    Latre! :D
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