Should ROTS have showed Palpatine putting Anakin in his place?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by DarthDischarge, Jan 9, 2006.

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  1. DarthDischarge Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2004
    star 1
    Maybe messing him up with lightniong real good for a second to let Anakin know whos boss and not to mess with him but join or die? Even taking his saber from his hand against his will using the darkside? Palpatine showing some awesome power directed at Anakin directly and Anakin feeling the pain of it would of helped explain why he must serve his master and the fact that he had fear of Palpatine he would later need to overcome would of been interesting.
  2. Get_in_Gear Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 29, 2004
    star 5
    No.
    IMO, Vader is well and truly put in his place by Palpatine, in fashion which has far more lasting and harrowing effects than just pure bullying.
  3. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    if you think that then you missed the point. It's about SEDUCTION. and greed. you can't force Anakin to turn , he has to choose to. ;) .
  4. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    Your suggestion sounds like a good idea, DarthDischarge. Showing the Emperor dominating Anakin the way he did with Luke would be better for the Emperor's image of awesome power. As the film stands, many people think the Emperor was underwhelming- unlike ROTJ where people thought he was insanely powerful. However, Anakin willingly agreed to join the dark side, so there was no reason for the Emperor to attack him.
  5. thechozn1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    star 4
    You mean as opposed to Obi-wan?
  6. TomPiltoff Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 7, 2005
    star 2
    Should ROTS HAVE showed Palpatine putting Anakin in his place.
  7. thechozn1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    star 4
    Have shown if you really wanna get technical.
  8. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    I did'nt know we were in english class.:p


    Anakin had to want to join the Dark Side (as he did).
    If he was'nt willing to, I doubt lightning would have
    changed his mind. If he had no conflict and there was no
    way he was turning, then he would of fought Palp's and
    at the most... died fighting him, before turning.
    But he did choose to turn, so Sidious did'nt need to
    physicaly persuade him.
  9. DS_Emp_Viper Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 2001
    star 4
    I think what he is saying is that ONCE Anakin turns to the darkside it would have been cool to see Palpatine put him in his place...I mean after all that garbage about "I'm stronger then the chancellor..I can overthrow him!"...I mean comon.
  10. thechozn1 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    star 4
    JMJ77 class is in :p

    Seriously when people come on here it's usually to let loose. Not much of a need to correct every grammatical error.

    As far as the topic I guess it suffices to say that Palps had a great and strong teacher. He had learned to cheat death except for that whole sleeping too much thing. Palps had come into his own though and as was the Sith way, the Master had to go when the student is capable of offing him. Then he had years to develop his talents. Not only that he had untold ancient whatchamucallits that allowed him to learn from all the Sith Masters through the decades.

    Anakin woulda been pwned until dabbling in the darkside for a while
  11. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Yeah, thanks I understood.
    BUT Palps (at this point) does'nt know Anakin's intents.
    So your point is moot my friend.
  12. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    I don't see how Palpatine could or would get Physical with Anakin . first he had ample opportunity to Get physical when he revealed to Anakin he was Sideous. because Anakin pulled out his saber and pointed it at him. Palps did nothing because firstly he Did not want to validate the things Anakin thinks he believes about the Sith , and second i don't think it has ever been shown or proven anywhere that you can force a person to turn. they have to give themselves willingly. just as the ROTJ novel say's when Luke say's "you will not turn me like you did my father ". and Palps say's" I did not turn him he did that himself " . the reason Luke get's the lightning was not to turn him. it was because he won't turn.it was punishment, not a ultimatum. as Palps said " If you will not be turned , you will be destroyed " . by that point Palps has resolved himself to killing Luke. even when he takes a break in the lightning he say's " you have paid the price for your lack of vision ",and , " now young Skywalker , you will die " . everything leading up to the Lightning was the SEDUCTION . feeding Lukes hate. after he refuses after taking Vaders hand. everything after that is Punishment. and frying Luke would not have persuaded him. but Palpatine came close when he got Luke to give in to his Hate, and fight Vader. it's all about Seduction people. Anakin would have never turned if Palpatine used Violence on him. that is why he didn't ;)
  13. -General_Kenobi- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2003
    star 2
    It's a shame the Emperor didn't show Vader/Anakin the true power of the Dark Side. I always thought Anakin/Vader's injuries would be caused by Obi-Wan and Palpatine. As if Anakin had betrayed Windu and in desperation fought against good ole Palps. Then finally giving up when experiencing the power of the Dark Side and joining Sidious's cause. Then he could've gone and fight Obi-Wan to also get his classic beating. I thought it would go that way because of a single quote Yoda has in ROTJ, "Do not underestimate the power of the Emperor, or suffer your father's fate you will." In my opinion that almost states Anakin underestimated the Sidious the same way Luke did--and we see Anakin doing it. But the thing is we do see Luke realizing his mistake when he is getting lighted. We don't see such thing when it comes to Vader. Instead what we get is Anakin arrogantly thinking he is more powerful than Palpatine when he is not. And I do believe Palpatine wouldn't have let Vader become as powerful as he could have been had Obi-Wan not mauled him. Thing is Palpatine probably planned to subdue Vader, but did not need to once Obi-Wan served Vader. The potential would never have been realized and Palpatine needed not worry.
  14. Adm_Thrawn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2004
    star 4
    Sidious would've put Vader in his proper place had Vader not fallen into the lava on Mustafar. His injuries changed him. They humbled him, and took away a lot of his ambition (for whatever reason). They also took away the possibility of Vader ever killing/overthrowing Sidious, which would be the only reason Sidious would have to put him in his place.
  15. -General_Kenobi- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2003
    star 2
    Exactly my thoughts. But I still would have liked to watch them duke it out.
  16. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    "Do not underestimate the power of the Emperor, or suffer your father's fate you will."
    it shows that Yoda underestimated the power of the Emperor. as far as telling that to Luke , it fits well too. do not underestimate his seductive power. it's all about underestimating Palpatine. they all did.

    Sidious would've put Vader in his proper place had Vader not fallen into the lava on Mustafar. His injuries changed him. They humbled him, and took away a lot of his ambition (for whatever reason). They also took away the possibility of Vader ever killing/overthrowing Sidious, which would be the only reason Sidious would have to put him in his place.


    why would he put him in his place. ?. by saving him ,telling him he killed Padme , he sorta did put him in his place.but not through violence. Palpatine was satisfied enough with Vader , or he would not have saved him. it's after Luke arrives that Vader looks like a disapointment. since there are no more Jedi left Vader is the next best thing to Palps.he is the no2 Force User. then Luke comes along. and i see no proof that his Injuries Humbled him. the guy would choke the life out of any officer who screwed up in the least. that's not very humble.if anything he got worse. as for his ambition, he likely feels he owes Palpatine for saving him. but he is a Sith after all, and as soon as Vader learns of Luke, he has already plotting to turn Luke and kill Palps. he just has to be patient.something he learned well from Palpatine, not ObiWan. even as Palps say's to Vader in ESB " i hope your feelings are clear on this matter " as to turning Luke. Palps thinks Vader will help turn Luke.but he is suspicious of his intention. cause Vader is Sith. and Vader is thinking about turning Luke and killing Palps. it's the Sith circle of Life. :p
  17. -General_Kenobi- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2003
    star 2
    Palpatine was one smart ************. He probably knew Vader would eventually try to take his place as master. He never let his apprentices fulfill themselves. Maul was sent on a suicide mission against 2 Jedi. Dooku was betrayed by him and when a new younger apprentice appeared Palpatine inmediatly aimed his gun at him with the thought of replacing Vader. He probably learned that after Plageuis(spelling?) was betrayed by his own apprentice.
  18. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    He believed fully that the Jedi were no match for Maul.it was definitely not a suicide mission. it was bad Luck that Maul fell. the TPM novel even say's that. he adjusted his plans accordingly after Mauls death. he had no time to train a new apprentice from childhood, like Maul. so he get's a disgruntled Ex Jedi to fill in till Anakin is ready. but yes, Dooku was never meant to last . he was always meant to be a device to turn Anakin. and i believe that Palps always knew that he would someday be overthrown by Vader.as he killed his own Master. when he say's to Yoda " Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us " he meant it. it's the Sith way.
  19. Adm_Thrawn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2004
    star 4
    Anakin's injuries took away his hubris and made him dependent on Sidious. Had Vader killed Obi-Wan on Mustafar, he would've eventually mustered up the confidence to try to kill Sidious. Vader knew that Sidious had arranged the whole thing. That he had manipulated him. He just didn't care. He didn't care because he got what he wanted more than anything: power. And he'd have gotten even more power with the death of Sidious. However, falling into a river of molten lava and becoming a glorified Frankenstein changed that.
  20. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    Agreed. but i get the impression that some think that if Vader was never injured Palpatine would just beat him down to prove a point. which is not so.
  21. i_dont_know Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2005
    star 4
    I think this says more about the audience than the movies. The Emperor doesn't come off as that much more powerful in ROTJ, people were just more easily impressed when ROTJ was released.
    In the prequels Sidious being all-knowing was a given. But when we first heard the Emperor say "Perhaps you refer to the imminent arrival of your Rebel fleet" we thought "Whoa!"

    This is achieved in a more subtle way. From the novel (warning: spoilers if you haven't read it):

    "Padme? Are you here? Are you alright?"
    I'm very sorry, Lord Vader. I'm afraid she died. It seems in your anger, you killed her.
    This burns hotter than the lava had.
    "No... no, it is not possible!"
    You loved her. You will always love her. You could never will her death.
    Never.
    But you remember...
    You remember all of it.
    You remember the dragon that you brought Vader forth from your heart to slay. You remember the cold venom in Vader's blood. You remember the furnace of Vader's fury, and the black hatred of seizing her throat to silence her lying mouth-
    And there is one blazing moment in which you finally understand that there was no dragon. That there was no Vader. That there was only you. Only Anakin Skywalker.
    That it was all you. Is you.
    Only you.
    You did it.
    You killed her.
    You killed her because, finally, when you could have saved her, when you could have gone away with her, when you could of been thinking about her, you were thinking about yourself...
    It is in this blazing moment that you finally understand the trap of the darkside, the final cruelty of the Sith-
    Because now your self is all you will ever have.
    And you rage and scream and reach through the force to crush the shadow who has destroyed you, but you are so far less now than what you were, you are more than half machine, you are like a painter gone blind, a composer gone deaf, you can remember where the power was but the power you can touch is only a memory, and so with all your world-destroying fury it is only droids around you that implode, and equipment, and the table on which you were strapped shatters, and in the end you cannot touch the shadow.
    In the end you do not even want to.
    In the end, the shadow is all you have left.
    Because the shadow understands you, the shadow forgives you, the shadow gathers you unto itself-
    And within your furnace heart, you burn in your own flame.
    This is how it feels to be Anakin Skywalker.
    Forever...


    That pretty much sums it up :_|
  22. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    There's no reason for Palpatine to put Anakin in his place. He has the boy on his side and Obi-wan takes care of Anakin, thus preventing Sidious from having to do this to Vader.
  23. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    i think it's the point that palps doesn't have to do it. anakin does it by himself. there's no need to show him his place because he goes there by himself. on his own volition.
  24. JMN77 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 19, 2005
    star 3
    Exactly.
  25. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    Basically

    Did anybody see that scene where Anakin gets on his knees and reluctantly calls Palpatine his Master? Who then proceeds to do the closest thing a Sith Lord has to a giggle?

    That's him put in his place right there.
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