Should ROTS have showed Palpatine putting Anakin in his place?

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by DarthDischarge, Jan 9, 2006.

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  1. CJedi72 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 4
    That needed to be shown, so it would make the statement in ROTJ by Vader validated, "You don't know the power of the darkside, I must obey my master."

    I was waiting for this in ROTS, and it never happened.
  2. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    Knowing that Sidious defeated 4 Jedi Masters singlehandedly was enough to put Anakin in his place because it forced Anakin to realized, "If neither Mace or the Jedi he brought with him can defeat Palpatine, what chance do I have." Plus, being tricked into betraying Mace has scared Anakin into joining up with Sidious because he knows that if he goes back to the Jedi Temple alone, some of the Jedi Knights that are there would automatically label Anakin a Sith lord and will attempt to kill him.
  3. CJedi72 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Sep 29, 2005
    star 4


    Then why does he say to Padme on Mustafar, I can defeat the Emperor and we can rule the galaxy, but in ESB he tells Luke, "Together, we can defeat the Emperor and rule the galaxy."

    See where it doesn't make sense, and Lucas needed to show The Emperor putting Anakin in his place in ROTS. Anakin thinks he can overtake the Emperor by himself in ROTS, but he doesn't in ESB. Another problem when comparing both trilogies, and why so many things dont make sense to many fans.
  4. Cyph3r Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2005
    I guess by ESB Vader was aware of his weakness, and that Palpatine had a number of tricks up his sleeve that would do away with him more easily than they would have had he remained (mostly) man as opposed to machine (e.g. force lightning)
    However, if you're of the opinion that Vader is stronger in all ways by ESB, then I agree it doesn't make much sense.
  5. vadersmyfather Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2005
    star 1


    That needed to be shown, so it would make the statement in ROTJ by Vader validated, "You don't know the power of the darkside, I must obey my master."


    The reason for this is more to do with his decision in ROTS than it is fear of the Emporer.

    He had made the choice 2 decades before to join the Sith to obey Palpatine. There was no going back and that was even more entrenched in him in OT. Therefore he must obey Palpatine. It was more of a mindset than fear of reprisal.

    Knowing that Sidious defeated 4 Jedi Masters singlehandedly was enough to put Anakin in his place because it forced Anakin to realized, "If neither Mace or the Jedi he brought with him can defeat Palpatine, what chance do I have."


    To all intents and purposes Palpatine looked weak when Anakin entered so he would hardly have been impressed by the dark side. At that point, it wasn't power in a physical sense or force sense that Anakin wanted. He wanted the one thing he though joining the dark side could offer him--the ability to save Padme.

    So you see, it wasn't important or needed that Anakin see the dark side as powerful.

    See where it doesn't make sense, and Lucas needed to show The Emperor putting Anakin in his place in ROTS. Anakin thinks he can overtake the Emperor by himself in ROTS, but he doesn't in ESB. Another problem when comparing both trilogies, and why so many things dont make sense to many fans.


    He doesn't in ESB, not because he doesn't want to, but because he alone isn't strong willed enough nor strong enough in the force to be able to defeat Palpatine, mainly due to his 'accident'.

    This is why he leaps at the chance when he finds Luke is his son. He now knows he has a chance to get rid of Palpatine as he's always wanted.

    It's not a problem, it's been explained by Lucas quite clearly and simply....in striving for everything, he lost everything.
  6. Darth_Froschler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 13, 2004
    star 2
    There is no need for Palpatine to attack Anakin. Palpatine has been Anakin's father figure his whole life and he looks up to him. It's only natural that Palpatine would be the master.

    Plus, Palpatine "says" he has the information that he needs to save Padme. Anakin has to learn it from Palpatine as his student.

    Anakin willingly turned to the darkside under palpatine. He already knew his place.
  7. s0Lstar18 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2005
    star 1

    I don't think so being that Anakin would've kept getting stronger and stronger 2x as powerful as the Emperor????do you know how much power that is ,he wouldv'e only gained more power in the Darkside after killing Obi Wan.
  8. vadersmyfather Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 20, 2005
    star 1
    Anakin has to learn it from Palpatine as his student

    Not to be picky, but he wasn't going to learn it from Palps and Palps never promised this.

    Hence why on Mustafar Anakin tells Padme he will kill Palps.

    Palps said that through the darkside they could discover the secret...together.

    He never actually said he would tell Anakin.
  9. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Believe it or not, in an early draft of ROTJ there was a scene where Palpatine puts Vader in his place with a force choke.

    97. INT. THRONE ROOM - HAD ABBADON

    Vader storms into the throne room and marches right up to where the Emperor is sitting. The Emperor slowly raises his head to stare at the Dark Lord.

    VADER
    Where is he?

    EMPEROR
    Safe?There is no need for you to worry. I will take good care of him?

    VADER
    It is for me to train my son?you must?

    The Emperor raises his hand, and Vader's breathing suddenly stops. The Dark Lord struggles at his controls, attempting to regain his air supply. He chokes.

    EMPEROR
    You forget yourself?Lord Vader. I will tolerate no more discussion on the subject. The boy is mine to train. Your place is with the fleet.

    Vader collapses on the floor and the Emperor lowers his hand. Vader starts breathing again and rises to a kneeling position.

    VADER
    Forgive me, master.

    EMPEROR
    The Rebels will soon begin their attack. You must be ready for them. For now that I have all of them in one place, they will be crushed once and for all.

    VADER
    Yes, my master.

    EMPEROR
    Now take your leave, for I have your son to attend to.

    Vader rises and exits the throne room, and the giant door slides closed behind him.


  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    That needed to be shown, so it would make the statement in ROTJ by Vader validated, "You don't know the power of the darkside, I must obey my master."

    Maybe Vader's refering to the Dark Side is his master and not Darth Sidious.
  11. farrellg Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2005
    star 4
    I think this says more about the audience than the movies. The Emperor doesn't come off as that much more powerful in ROTJ, people were just more easily impressed when ROTJ was released.
    In the prequels Sidious being all-knowing was a given. But when we first heard the Emperor say "Perhaps you refer to the imminent arrival of your Rebel fleet" we thought "Whoa!"


    I think it would work better if the movie was filmed in such a way that the audience is impressed by the Emperor's powers just as easily as they were in ROTJ.

    To all intents and purposes Palpatine looked weak when Anakin entered so he would hardly have been impressed by the dark side.

    He killed three Jedi Masters and used force lightning. I would think that's enough to show that the Emperor is powerful. That's another reason why the Emperor should have done something to Anakin or at least put on some display of overwhelming power. A villain who comes off as weak is not a good thing.
  12. Dezdmona Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2005
    star 4
    It is my understanding that during Vader's "reconstruction" after his failure on Mustafar that no painkiller's were used, upon Sidious' request; thereby essentially "torturing" him so he could experience the full pain of his injuries.
  13. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Only as means of keeping the anger and hate going.
  14. DroidGeneral Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2005
    star 4
    Uh, when someone saves you from the shores of a lava river, I think you'd know your role.
  15. ChestRockwell Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 9, 2004
    star 2
    Well its obvious that Palpatine probobly didnt do anything to Anakin behind the scenes since Anakin was so cocky and confident to the wife about overthrowing him so they could run the galaxy (at least in his small mind..lol)

    The fact is that Vader never got to run anything before he died without Palpys approval,

    Right after the movie ended there might have been a behind the scenes thing where palps let anakin know that the breathing for the suit was controled by THE CLAPPER... and only palpy could shut it off
  16. Darth_Zoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2002
    star 4
    No, that would have been ridiculous.
  17. PowerUnlimitedPower Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2006
    star 1
    ;)
    He should have put him in a Bacta tank ,the Bugger . Palpatine obviously wanted to keep Vader down and weak so he can't become more powerful than him. Bacta would have helped heal his wounds better. but Sid's is sadistic , like all good Sith Lords. so he does the bare minimum just clean him up , slap on some limbs and throw him into a suit. that is how we treat Failure Lord Vader. and Vader passes that logic on to many Imperial officers.
  18. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Vader had bacta treaments aboard the Theata Class Shuttle, on the return trip to Courscant. That's what the medical capsule (sp) was. Those were third degree burns and not subject to quick healing. Nor do they have the luxary to leave him immersed (sp) in it. But it did help to stablize him until they arrived home.
  19. PowerUnlimitedPower Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2006
    star 1
    i'm talkin a Bath here. not a wipe down.
  20. darth_frared Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 24, 2005
    star 5
    palps could have destroyed him any day of his sad life. that'S agood enough reason, don't you think? fear of dying?
    huh? that's the point, isn't it? if he didn't see that as a possibility and if he hadn't witnessed the dark side as actually *being* powerful, why would he turn to palps? it's absolutely necessary that he sees the dark side (mind you, not sid) as powerful.
    true, he feels he isn't strong enough by himself (for whatever reason).
    he thinks he can overthrow the emperor in ROTS because he's obviously lost his mind.
  21. darthvaderv Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 20, 2005
    star 4
    Agreed to some extent I was too. But after ROTS I then knew Vader's words in ROTJ were aimed at the darkside in general. And was Vader also concerened that Palps would tell Luke he killed his Mother, just an after thought.
  22. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    The Dark Side has twisted Anakin's mind to the point where he THINKS he can destroy the Emperor so easily and rule the galaxy alongside with his wife and son but in both those moments, he cannot do so because he has fallen into PalpSidious' trap by betraying Mace and now, he cannot escape from it. Anakin already knows what Force lightning felt like when he fought Dooku so he sees that if he attacks the Emperor, he'll have a lightning bolt shoved up his behind. To quote Benny from the 1999 version of the Mummy, "It is better to be the right hand of the Devil than in his path. As long as I serve him, I am immune" which is why he defended Palps when Obi-wan called him "evil" and why he stopped Luke from killing Palps.


    Lucas doesn't have to show anything because the fact that the Emperor killed 4 Jedi and has a clone army at his disposal is enough to put Anakin in his place. The only reason Anakin didn't overtake the Emperor in ESB is because he is injured beyond belief that he's no longer capable of taking down the Emperor by himself.

    But after Palpatine destroyed Mace, Anakin sees that Palps is NOT as weak as he was led to believe. That's why he shouted "What have I done?"...because he fell for the "I'm too weak" trick that Palps pulled on him.
  23. PalpatineAntikristos Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 2002
    star 3
    ChestRockwell wrote, "Right after the movie ended there might have been a behind the scenes thing where palps let anakin know that the breathing for the suit was controled by THE CLAPPER... and only palpy could shut it off".

    Hence C3P0's line in AOTC that he's fallen and can't get up. That George Lucas, always foreshadowing and repeating the same motifs in his films. He's an under-appreciated genius.;)
  24. AnakinSucks Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2005
    star 3
    Nah, Obi-wan did that for him.
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