Should Talzin be revealed to be Darth Traya?

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV' started by Sitara, Mar 9, 2013.

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  1. Sitara Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 3
    To salvage the whole Mother Talzin thing, wouldn't it be fun if the writer's ended up making her Darth Traya, who survived for thousands of years and is using a Force Illusion to appear as Talzin?

    That way, Maul can be her 'Wound' in the Force which she could be using to kill the Force as she was in KOTOR II. Ventress, Savage and Maul could be her attempt at a new Triumvirate as before, and with Savage gone she could be after Anakin.

    Sidious discovers her true nature, and he and Tyrannus team up to finally destroy her.
  2. CaptainRegor Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 15, 2012
    star 2
    Interesting, but no way that is going to happen.
  3. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    That would feel sooooooo incredibly forced IMO. Taking a square peg, cutting the corners off of it, and forcing it into a round hole, still wouldn't be a good fit.

    I have my personal bias against Traya, just because I thought she was a boring character - especially as far as villains go. But on top of that, I think there would just be too many questions, like why she even bothered to hide herself as some pasty skinned witch with her hand back. Plus that would be opening the door for yet another Sith cheating death.

    Vitiate never quite sat well with me because of how horribly he one-uped Palpatine and Plagueis in managing to survive for over a millennium. Though at least he cheated death through the loophole of body hopping. Traya's story felt concluded (albeit the end of KOTOR 2 felt rushed). To bring her back after all this time opens a can of worms and raises questions that I don't think could be easily answered. Especially not in TCW itself where Filoni would be stuck having to introduce Traya for people that don't know her, and then bring the audience up to speed as to what she's been doing for a few thousand years and why she's sitting on Dathomir, looks completely different, etc.

    Since most of these stories come from Lucas. I would think that there is about a 100% chance of this not happening.

    If we're talking pure fanon of things that are not likely to happen but could be interesting, I've thought that it would be interesting to see an ancient Sith appear. Whether it be as a Sith spirit (idea was shot down by Lucas and Filoni) or whether they use some kind of plot device like a prisoner trapped in carbonite, or time travel (not really been done in SW to my knowledge) to explain the appearance of an ancient Sith.

    The early Empires of the EU are just so much different than Palpatine's that I thought it would be interesting to see how someone from the prior would react to someone like Dooku or Palpatine.

    Questions he/she would have: Why are there only two?! Why are they such cowards that they are hiding? How did the Sith lose whatever was he had been a part of? Perhaps what happened to the red-skinned Sith? Why are the Sith cooperating with aliens? Why are the Sith tip-toeing around politics rather than subjugating the week through force of arms? etc.

    Basically the ancient Sith would be incredibly disgusted with the current state of the Sith and feel like the glorious Sith of the past were run into the ground and became morons. I used to be open to such an idea, and had they not brought Maul back, they could have used such a character to represent a second Sith faction trying to get traction in the universe and fix things.

    That would almost certainly never happen, but even in entertaining the idea, I think they should go with an original character not making someone like Traya involved, nor folding Talzin into the idea that she's some kind of ancient Sith Lord established by the EU.
    Last edited by TaradosGon, Mar 9, 2013
  4. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    Frankly, it sounds like a terrible idea for reasons provided by @TaradosGon. More importantly, Sidious wouldn't need to team up with anyone to take her down. I realize the EU teems with aggrandized feats of power, but the idea that Sidious is the pinnacle of the Sith comes straight from the Flanneled One's playbook. In the same medium, Sidious would shred any of his predecessors. He's smarter, stronger, and more skilled than all of them.
    cwustudent likes this.
  5. K'Kruhk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2011
    star 3
  6. Nubbs Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 16, 2013
    What if I told you Darth Traya wasn't really an ancient Sith, but was... Mother Talzin!?!? using a force illusion to appear as a Sith in order to have Meetra "bad-*** mutha" Surik destroy her rivals before they conquered the galaxy?

    Or, what if I told you Ahsoka Tano was really just a force illusion projected by Mother Talzin to trick everyone into thinking Anakin Skywalker had a Padawan?

    OR, what if I told you George Lucas has been dead since 1994 and the person walking around calling himself George Lucas is just a force illusion conjured by Mother Talzin?

    I like this game!

    In all seriousness, I like the idea that someone can use the force and not be joined to either the Jedi or Sith. Independent agents in the galaxy are under-represented IMO and Talzin knowing things about the Force that even Darth Sidious/Palpatine doesn't know makes things more interesting. It should be impossible for someone to know everyone and everything in an entire galaxy, even someone as powerful as Sidious.
    Dark Lord Tarkas likes this.
  7. Sitara Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 3
    Hmm, I don't know, the Flanneled One also said there would be no more movies after the current six. He also said Maul was dead. And many other things that turned out to be...from certain points of view :p

    Also, answer me this: If Sidious is the best and the brightest the Sith have to offer, why can't he teleport like Talzin? Wouldn't that have been handy while he was falling down the shaft in ROTJ? Or he could have teleported behind Vader and blasted him into oblivion? Also, why can't he conjure up a force bubble around himself that can protect from starfighter grade weapons at least like Talzin could? One would think that would have been mighty useful against Windu and Yoda, wherein Palps would be safe behind his bubble and would be able to blast Windu and Yoda with lightning all day.
  8. Darth_Zandalor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 2, 2009
    star 4
    No. No! NO. NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

    Talzin's philosophy is nothing like Traya's at all. Even if Traya is only a title, and was not always Kreia herself, the idea behind Traya is the death of the Force, wipe the slate clean and bring everyone down to the same level. The ultimate goal was to destroy fate, which is essentially the Will of the Force. In other words, an attack on the foundations of Star Wars. Fate, destiny, will of the force, they are all just shackles that dictate people's lives, and Kreia despises the Force for it. She looked beyond the physical boundaries set in place by the films and saw the world for what it was; an entire universe enslaved to the will of an unpredictable energy that could manifest itself as both benevolent and destructive. She wanted people to think, to choose, to live their life the way they wanted to, not by the cosmic plan of the Force.

    Does that sound anything at all like Mother Talzin? No, it does not.
  9. Theo333 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2011
    star 2
    Please stop saying words.
  10. Barriss_Coffee Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2003
    star 6
    Tarados basically covered everything I was thinking of replying, particularly this:

    QFT. One of the reasons I love the EU is that it's created so many characters with their own diverse take on the metaphysics of the Force. Traya was one of these. And while they're both creepy manipulative old women whose names begin with the letter T, Talzin and Traya share little else in common. Traya's more of a thinker, Talzin's more of a doer.
    Last edited by Barriss_Coffee, Mar 9, 2013
    Nubbs likes this.
  11. DanielUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4


    It would make no sense. At all.
  12. Todd the Jedi Mod and Sitcom Dad of SWTV - Vacationing and stuff

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Oct 16, 2008
    star 5
    [IMG]

    I don't like Talzin. Let's not make her any more complicated and stupid than she already is.
    Sitara likes this.
  13. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    Best and brightest doesn't mean all powerful and invincible. And Talzin, for all her ethereal power, fled from Grievous in "Massacre"... And I don't see Sidious running from a guy Obi-Wan routinely beats.
  14. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Talzin's powers seem to be more grounded in alchemy, whereas Palpatine's power is pretty much always at his fingertips. Talzin needs her spells, potions, enchanted objects, etc. Whereas Palpatine does not. When Talzin has these things, her power seems to eclipse Palpatine's (like when she threatens Dooku's life from a completely different star system, using a single hair and a spell. But strip her from those things and Palpatine has the upper hand (or so I assume). I mean, Daka pretty much had to sit there and chant a spell to raise the dead, while Talzin was preoccupied with a spell of her own to bring down Dooku. Disrupt their spell and Daka was weak, and Talzin was forced to flee. The source of Palpatine's power doesn't seem so easily taken away.
  15. Why_So_Serious Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 2
    Also, from reading "Restraint", it's pretty clear that Talzin's powers are tied heavily to actually remaining on Dathomir itself. On a space station, she can't even hold a force illusion for more than a handful of seconds, and complains of "this sterile place" holding her down.

    Also, she displays no actual physical abilities at any time, unlike Sidious. You'll note she never wields a weapon, or even runs. She's pretty much the epitome of "squishy wizard".
  16. Sable_Hart Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2009
    star 4
    True. When confronted with Sidious in "Restraint," Talzin reacted with extreme caution and deference despite having armed backup.
  17. Why_So_Serious Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2013
    star 2
    And, from reading "Darth Plagueis", we know he was only a Sith apprentice himself, at the time.

    She possesses no ability to physically fight, and seems powerless to do anything but run when confronted at close range, even in the heart of her home on Dathomir. Furthermore, her leadership abilities suck, as she decided messing with a Sith Lord at the head of one of the two galactic superpowers was a great idea. She further severely underestimated his resolve in the face of pain, and Grievous' ability to cut through her clan and their zombies like butter. She led her entire clan to their hideous and pointless deaths against the CIS, which means I doubt she'll be allowed near a position of power in other Nightsister clans ever again.

    In short Sidious > Talzin.
    Sable_Hart likes this.
  18. General Immodet Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2012
    star 4
    The people who are not into SW will not know who Kreia is, so I do not recommend them using Kreia in TCW.
    By the way, the exile killed her. Kreia's ghost came back in TOR.
  19. DanielUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 4
    Exactly.

    "fan service" is the worse aspect of movie franchises. Just look at Prometheus. The goal of Disney is to produce a film that caters to the entire audience, not only a small percentage of die hard fans.
    General Immodet likes this.
  20. rumsmuggler Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2000
    star 7
    My answer is no.
    Prometheus had a crappy writer come in and screw up the film. You can't put that on fan service. If it was fan service they were looking for, they would have kept in the xenos instead of showing one being born at the end.
    Last edited by rumsmuggler, Mar 11, 2013
  21. Narutakikun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
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