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Should the EU follow George's new movies, mix, or ignore? *possible Ep2 spoilers*

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Charlemagne19, Nov 3, 2001.

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  1. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    I know it probably should have never come to this but it's an interesting question I think that needs to be addressed that if George says something blatantly against continuity do we try and mix our works with his, politely ignore the offender, or blend matters?

    The matter has already come up in the Phantom Menace with the Sith as being a 1000 year old Cult of Black Magicians instead of a 100,000 year old Race of Evil and before then a 5,000 year old cult of Evil.

    KJA very nicely gave the understated Army of Darkness a tie to Darth Bane.

    However recent rumors for Episode II include the possibility that the stormtroopers will all prove to be clones and that Boba Fett will in no case be Jaster Mereel. Not to mention Dear Greedo....

    The first of course is the most difficult to fit into established continuity because cloning is meant to be a rare and powerful event that has very drastic effects on the galaxy when introduced.

    In that case it's my opinion that the EU should not beat itself up on this and include what it can but in places of direct contradiction simply ignore the offending piece from Lucasfilm and enjoy the wonderful Star Wars serial as it is.

    The books have gone to all this trouble to build on each other and establish even an official chronology then there is no need to invalidate all of this out of some need to stay true to roots.

    [Note: this may seem hypocritical with my recent petition but this is not a post to determine who or what is considered the "C" word but an attempt to seriously analyze issues of timeline in the EU should they come against one another]

    [Subnote: Please do not bring the C word or any questions of it to this particular thread beyond saying that George's word is law or you see no need to seperate them even in Anakin dies in the 3rd film just so the tweedy one can mess with our heads]
  2. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    However recent rumors for Episode II include the possibility that the stormtroopers will all prove to be clones and that Boba Fett will in no case be Jaster Mereel. Not to mention Dear Greedo....

    Fett can still be Mereel and Greedo can still have his story. We'll just have to see the movie before we can sort everything out.

  3. chissdude10 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2001
    star 5
    I really dont care unless Thrawns in Ep.#
  4. Vaderbait Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 26, 2001
    star 6
    bold text In that case it's my opinion that the EU should not beat itself up on this and include what it can but in places of direct contradiction simply ignore the offending piece from Lucasfilm and enjoy the wonderful Star Wars serial as it is.

    The books have gone to all this trouble to build on each other and establish even an official chronology then there is no need to invalidate all of this out of some need to stay true to roots. bold text


    What about all the time Lucas put into creating the whole story and spending millions to bring it to the big screen? You want to ignore his work just because some authors who've never written a decent novel (for the sake of arguement lets say outside the SW universe) decided to contradict it or create his/her own story?

    Canonist/EUist or not, where has all the common sense gone?

  5. MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    star 4
    If the TPM Greedo scene didn't even make the final cut, is it considered canon?
  6. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    I consider it canon. Other cut scenes were added to the movie, and a couple sources besides the filmed scene name the Rodian as Greedo.

    I can't see any contradictions, even from every single spoiler I've read about AotC.

    There's "trouble areas", like Owen Lars and the Clone Wars, but no "contradictions" as of yet.
  7. Skywalker_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 2
    Fett can still be Mereel and Greedo can still have his story. We'll just have to see the movie before we can sort everything out.

    No, LFL said to forget everything that you've ever heard about Boba Fett. Just because we can work it out doesn't mean we should.
  8. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Skywalker...look what forum you're in. The EU forum.

    If something won't fit, we make it fit. Capice?

    But we only have a few words from Sansweet. I'm not about to start discounting all of the enjoyable Fett stories just because this dude says so.
  9. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    True but the question of this thread is whether LF should have any bearing on the Expanded Universe at all?

    George did his part getting it set up but things have moved well beyond his company.

    I note however the fact people have no desire to ignore the Master of Industrial Light and Magic's work either for EU
  10. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    I thought I'd point out that one of the very premises of this discussion, and one of Charlemagne's recent thoughts, is to avoid discussion of Canon levels. This is the lit forum.
  11. Skywalker_Kenobi Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 2
    No contradictions?

    How about Anakin never met Yoda, Obi-Wan and Owen are brothers, there are numerous Sith Lords at one time, Boba Fett's past, Greedo's past, the reborn Emperor (return of the Sith), Boba Fett didn't really die, Mace uses a blue lightsaber, Ki-Adi uses a purple lightsaber, Luke uses a yellow lightsaber and there are many, many more where that came from.

    Oh what is EU gonna do next? Bring back Greedo? Yeah, it only looked like Han killed him, he really just dazed off for a couple hours when Han shot him with his sun-tan gun. Now he's out to get revenge on Han for giving him such a bad sun-burn, and then he's gonna get revenge on Darth Vader for beating his ass when he was 9.

    I agree. Keep canon out of this
  12. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    No contradictions?

    How about Anakin never met Yoda, Obi-Wan and Owen are brothers, there are numerous Sith Lords at one time, Boba Fett's past, Greedo's past, the reborn Emperor (return of the Sith), Boba Fett didn't really die, Mace uses a blue lightsaber, Ki-Adi uses a purple lightsaber, Luke uses a yellow lightsaber and there are many, many more where that came from.

    Oh what is EU gonna do next? Bring back Greedo? Yeah, it only looked like Han killed him, he really just dazed off for a couple hours when Han shot him with his sun-tan gun. Now he's out to get revenge on Han for giving him such a bad sun-burn, and then he's gonna get revenge on Darth Vader for beating his ass when he was 9.


    It's generally a cheesy idea to cut and paste a post you made in another forum, Skywalker_Kenobi.

    Let me correct you on each item :

    There are contradictions. They are just very rare, and not all are officially explained at this point in time. Therefore, occasional "fan fixes" are made, usually in the interesting of discussion and debate here in Lit. Quite simply, because it's fun to do.

    How about Anakin never met Yoda

    I'll wait and see the next two movies before I debate this. But it may be just a fluke. Or maybe Anakin wanted to meet Yoda "one last time" before he died. I'd need to reread the passage in ROTJ.

    Obi-Wan and Owen are brothers

    Blame Lucas. He either forgot or changed his mind. We do not know. AotC knowledge reveals that they are not brothers, but is not impossible that they still could be. It would just be very unlikely. However, Greedo fighting Anakin is more unlikely, and it happened.

    there are numerous Sith Lords at one time

    This shows your lack of knowledge of the Expanded Universe of Star Wars. There have never been more than 2 Sith Lords, aside from the time of the Old Republic, before the "rule of 2" was ever instituted.

    Boba Fett's past

    Fett's past as a young boy has never been documented. Fenn Shysa was the only character to provide faulty information, to Leia. He said that Fett fought in the Clone Wars on the side of the Emperor, as a Mandalorian Chief. He was either getting mixed up with Jango Fett ( during the First Clone War ), he was lying, or he was a clone, and had false memories flash-imprinted into his mind.

    Greedo's past

    1 story contradicts the young Greedo seen in the TPM DVD. It's mostly a problem with age and dating. A fix is easy enough - it's actually Greedo's father.

    the reborn Emperor (return of the Sith)

    No one ever said the Sith couldn't return, let alone the Emperor. That George Lucas quote you'll think of to try and prove me wrong holds no weight. You can still post it for others to see if you wish.

    Boba Fett didn't really die

    George Lucas approved Fett coming back. 'Nuff said.

    Mace uses a blue lightsaber, Ki-Adi uses a purple lightsaber

    Seeing as how lightsabers change over the years, and AotC is set 10 years after TPM, where's the contradiction? Next thing I expect is someone to claim that Luke has a green saber in ROTJ and a blue one in ANH and ESB, therefore, ROTJ is a contradiction.

    , Luke uses a yellow lightsaber and there are many, many more where that came from.

    I don't know of any story where Luke uses a yellow lightsaber.

    Oh what is EU gonna do next? Bring back Greedo? Yeah, it only looked like Han killed him, he really just dazed off for a couple hours when Han shot him with his sun-tan gun. Now he's out to get revenge on Han for giving him such a bad sun-burn, and then he's gonna get revenge on Darth Vader for beating his ass when he was 9.

    Lucas brought back Greedo. I guess you're saying that the EU should be more like his way of telling stories. :)
  13. Dev Sibwarra Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 4
    The only memory I have of Luke using a yellow saber is on some of the old ANH posters, where it looks like it could easily be a trick of the lighting (Does lighting affect lightsabers? Explain. :))
  14. Charlemagne19 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2000
    star 8
    *claps hands*

    I love your debate here about canon fixes and potentials but do try and stay on topic here....basically the merits of sticking with Lucas's viewpoint or ignoring the contradictions.

  15. Dev Sibwarra Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 4
    Whichever causes the least damage. When there's a continuity conflict, the explanation chosen should be that which invalidates the smallest amount of material, regardless of format. If it's a conflict in which the entire EU can be preserved by ignoring ten seconds of AotC, then go with the EU version. If the whole prequel trilogy conflicts with a single line in one novel, go with the movie version. Hopefully, the issue will never come up.
  16. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Exactly Dev.

    After all, Luke is Blue 5 in the ANH novelization.
  17. Jedi Merkurian ST Thread Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    [Subnote: Please do not bring the C word or any questions of it to this particular thread]

    Hey, what do you have against Chocolate!?!? :p
  18. Sturm Antilles Former Manager

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2000
    star 6
    Mmm, chocolate.

    Hey, I have a thought. Why do Movie-canonists always pick on Fett and cloned Palpatine, but they leave things like the Ewoks invisibility soap alone?
  19. Kier_Nimmion Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 5


    I don't see the error in Greedo's past unless I missed something on the DVD, and I saw the out take. The only story I read with Greedo in it is when he was sent after Han that lead into the sequence from A New Hope. And I am sure Bib will correct me if I make in error.

    Why can't Greedo, a Rodian, have grown into adult on Tatooine, gone back to Rodia (because I recall there was a section in the story where he remembers hunting), became a guntzel for Jabba the Hutt and met his head when he threatened Solo?
  20. Matthew Trias Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    You're all freeting over a CUT scene.

    It really never happened.
  21. Mr_Whills Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 1
    I found a big continuity problem in AC Crispin's Han Solo trilogy. In The Paradise Snare at the beginning when Han is escaping from Shrike he begins to think about his past, when he was teased at the age of 7 about being a Captain in the Imperial Navy. Well, Han according to EU sources Han would be 7 at the time of Ep2(MILD EP2 SPOILER AHEAD:)

















    but it seems to me that the Empire won't appear until Ep3 by which time Han would be 9.

    This is a blatant continuity problem, but I have dismissed it as Han getting confused because he was running out of air. Besides, I'm sure we can't all remember exactly how old we were when certain events occured.

    You just need a bit of imagination. And as for Stormtroopers being clones - fine. But I'm sure the Emperor would also want fresh blood in his military so recruits could be trained on Carida.

    And Palpy coming back? Yeah, Anakin brought balance to the force, but it didn't last long. The offspring of the Chosen One had to take over from where he left off. To me it seems perfectly logical that a being as powerful as the Emperor would make sure a little thing like death wouldn't get in his way. After all, he was 86 when Vader killed him. He couldn't have had long left anyway so it comes as no surprise that Palpy had a back-up plan.


    And the story of Fett? He's a legend - stories get twisted so by the time of the OT no one really knows the true id of Boba Fett.
  22. Matthew Trias Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    whaaa?The Empire is 20 years old.Han joins when he's 18....Han is 7 or 9 by Episode III.
  23. Matthew Trias Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    Yep.He was born 3 years after TPM.
  24. Mr_Whills Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 1, 2001
    star 1
    Sorry, to clarify, he was teased at age 7 about being an Imperial. He wasn't of course, but Shrike and his crew took the **** out of him for knowing so much about spacecraft by referring to him as Captain Solo of the Imperial Navy or whatever the actual quote is. He is 7 at around the time of AOTC when the Empire doesn't exist.
  25. Matthew Trias Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 8, 1999
    star 6
    In that case,canon takes precedence and that line will have to be ignored.

    Or you could just say that his memory was a bit erroneous.

    The rest of the book is not harmed.
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