Should the fanfic forum be split up?

To make my opinion clear - I'm for the 3-way split. JG convinced me very nicely that it is the only practical way to do it.

We obviously need a sticky index - why shouldn't it be part of the "Welcome" thread? Any changes to the actual regulations (i.e. the first post(s) of the thread) can be edited by the moderators anyway, right?

But what about some way of accessing ALL new stories from ANY of the forums, at least on a writer-voluntary basis? I would appreciate having direct access on one forum to a list of new stories on other forums, to decide whether they're worth my while, instead of looking for a forum index on each separate forum. In that case, perhaps it would make more sense to have each forum index have a sticky link in each forum. If the "welcome" thread was also the index, then that would mean that each forum would have 3 sticky threads at the top. This is what we have now, and doesn't seem to be too much of a bother to most people.

An alternative would be to have a floating "new stories" thread in each forum as suggested. That way, each thread would only contain really new stories. Then, there could be a sticky link to the latest new stories threads in the other two forums. This would necessitate monthly (?) maintenance of the sticky thread identity (if this is possible), but would allow any forum user to get a glimpse of the latest the other forums have to offer. If you want the full index, you'd have to go to the other forum itself. That way, you still have only three sticky threads in each forum (Welcome/index, Latest Stories A and Latest Stories B).

 

So now we have three sticky indexes - one for each board - each month and a Master story index in which all the stories from all boards that month are added at the end of each month. Well, in each board we could have a header link to the montly story index of that board, and we could have the link to the story indexes of other boards and the master story index in big, bold, capital red in the first post. How does that sound?

Speaking of story index links, I think it would be good to have links to some more indexes - namely, the beta reader index, the beta reader academy index, the links to various character-based indexes, links to various resources (Timetales, theForce.net encyclopedia, and starwars.com databank), and links to other useful websites/pages that writers and/or readers may find helpful. This probably will be in the Welcome New Fanfic Writers thread, of course.

If this is a "go-ahead," then I'll start assembling the links.

EDIT: I like the genre code idea, too. Maybe we should also add in the Welcome New Fanficcers thread encouraging all writers to include a brief sticky-thread-like formatted info about the story they're about to write in the first post

Got to run for class now.

Aunecah

 

So now we have three sticky indexes - one for each board - each month and a Master story index in which all the stories from all boards that month are added at the end of each month.

My suggestion was that the entire list be housed in a sticky thread here in Writers' Resource. The monthly threads can be floating threads - I don't think there's really a need for sticky threads on those, since they'll be upped daily anyway.

Well, in each board we could have a header link to the montly story index of that board, and we could have the link to the story indexes of other boards and the master story index in big, bold, capital red in the first post. How does that sound?

Again, the monthly indices will be upped at least once a day. A link in the header wouldn't really be necessary, and having to change it on three boards every month would be a bit of a pain. A link to the Master Stories Index in the header would be great, though.

Speaking of story index links, I think it would be good to have links to some more indexes - namely, the beta reader index, the beta reader academy index, the links to various character-based indexes, links to various resources (Timetales, theForce.net encyclopedia, and starwars.com databank), and links to other useful websites/pages that writers and/or readers may find helpful. This probably will be in the Welcome New Fanfic Writers thread, of course.

Links to the non-JC resources like Timetales, the CUSWE, and the sw.com databank could go in the first post of the "welcome" sticky - I think the plan for replies to that thread is to have links to the indices here, like the J/J, A/A, H/L, etc. threads.

EDIT: I like the genre code idea, too. Maybe we should also add in the Welcome New Fanficcers thread encouraging all writers to include a brief sticky-thread-like formatted info about the story they're about to write in the first post

Yes, I think there should be some kind of formatted story info thing (wow, my vocabulary today is riveting) that authors are encouraged to use - if for no other reason than to make my life easier with the NSI. Something like this...

Title: Why Love Was Forbidden in the Old Jedi Order
Author(s): padawan lunetta and Melyanna
Timeframe: NJO
Rating: PG
Characters: Original characters, Luke Skywalker, Mara Jade, Jacen Solo, Ganner Rhysode, Corran Horn
Keywords: OC, AU, romance, drama, angst, Naboo
Summary: On a mission into the Unknown Regions, Luke Skywalker, his wife Mara, Corran Horn, Jacen Solo, Ganner Rhysode, and four young apprentices discover more than they bargained for about the Old Order of Jedi - and about each other.
Notes: Part of a post-Rebirth AU series by multiple authors.

In Julie's master index, she included this list of common abbreviations:

H/L - Han/Leia
L/M - Luke/Mara
Ani/Ami or A/A - Anakin and Amidala (Padme)
S/S - The Skywalker and Solo families
EU - Expanded Universe (all of the books)
JA - The Jedi Apprentice books about Obi-Wan's youth before TPM
JQ - The Jedi Quest books about Anakin Skywalker's youth before AotC.
PT - Episodes 1-3, the prequels
OT - Episodes 4-6, the original trilogy
NJO - The New Jedi Order books, 25 years post RotJ
TPM - The Phantom Menace
AotC - Attack of the Clones
ANH - A New Hope
ESB - The Empire Strikes Back
RotJ - Return of the Jedi
post-RotJ - takes place after the movies
pre-TPM - takes place before the movies
inter-trilogy - between the two trilogies
AU - alternate universe
Obi-torture - Obi-Wan gets hurt and comforted
H/C - hurt/comfort
squad fic - fighter squadron stories
humor - lots of silliness
angst - anguish, torment, fear, anxiety
crossover or x-over - mixing Star Wars with another movie, tv series or book
round robin or RR[/

 

"Mush": Heavy doses of love scenes...

It's interesting to note that the term "Nookie"/"Jedi Nookie" has broken out of the fan fic realm and into the other forums... Including but not limited to the E-3SA fourum...

 

I meant float threads, just used sticky because I had to run to class ?


Links to the non-JC resources like Timetales, the CUSWE, and the sw.com databank could go in the first post of the "welcome" sticky - I think the plan for replies to that thread is to have links to the indices here, like the J/J, A/A, H/L, etc. threads.

I think having this run by volunteers would be nice as well. There are clearly those who read A/A no matter what time era or genre the story is in, just as there are some who wouldn't read J/K or J/J or J/T. These indices could be updated every month, by simply taking stories from the master sticky index and fitting them into the appropriate category ? which probably means, we would want to add a "Dramatis Relationship" (for the lack of a better noun) category (optional, of course) that would indicate if the story is an A/A, J/K, J/J, J/T, O/OC, etc. If the story does belong to one of the pre-existing indices, then we put it in the appropriate index.

Sounds like a lot of work, but I wouldn't mind doing it. On the other hand, I'm not really sure if the effort we're putting into it will be worth it ? does anybody go to the particular indices to figure out what stories they want to read

Aunecah

 

[face_shocked]My god when I said I like a Genre split I thougth it would be some thing like this:

Humor

Romance

Horror

Mystery

Angst*However you spell that*

ect. Not like that. How many Genres have been made up on this board?

 

How many Genres have been made up on this board?

I imagine most genres have been covered...there'd be A LOT to cover in stick threads.

I'm a fan of keeping things simple - one index per new forum and an old style sticky "Master Index" here in the Resource forum.

That's just me though...

 

Question:

If the old threads become read-only, how will I, as an author, post a link to the continuation in the new framework? That is, if someone comes across the story on the old board, how can I include a post that links them to the new thread?

 

Booster: I asked this earlier because I was confused, and it turns out that the old boards will be Reply only, so you can't make new topics, but you can still reply to existing ones.

EDIT: And if you make a new thread, you can put a link to it in your first post on the old thread.

 

As it's near the end, my current fic will stay put for a while... But I think once the initial moveing panic dies down I'll slowly start shifting things over a bit at a time...

 

If the old threads become read-only, how will I, as an author, post a link to the continuation in the new framework? That is, if someone comes across the story on the old board, how can I include a post that links them to the new thread?

It's not "read-only," it's "reply-only." Pre-existing threads won't really be effected at all. You can keep adding to them right up until you finish. The new forums are for new stories (and any reposts people want to do of old ones).

 

Melyanna - How about mine? Would you find this a little more useful both as a reader and as an author?


Title: Tales of the Galactic Empire: Survivor (Linked)
Author(s): CmdrMitth (Linked is Optional)
Date Began: 07/05/02
Status: In the Works (Completed, Incomplete, Locked, etc)
Timeline: 1 day ABY (After Battle of Yavin)
Prequel/Sequel To: None (Link to Other Fic)
Genre: Action Adventure, Suspense
Characters: General Veers, Exar Kun, Original
Keywords: Veers, Exar Kun, Sith, Imperial, Yavin, Rebel (For search engine)
Summary: One man alone and stranded on the 4th moon of Yavin must survive the harsh environment, escape the clutches of the Rebellion, and resist the temptation of the Darkside... (30 Words or Less)
Notes: Minor EU inconsistencies, Pro-Imperial

Date Began - This was pretty much borrowed from the current index form. Allows readers to know how long the story has been posted.

Status - This would let readers know if the story has been completed or still being written by the author.

Timeline - Let's readers know when the story takes place. We should use the timeline abbreviations ABY (After Battle of Yavin) and BBY (Before Battle of Yavin).

Prequel/Sequel To - This is beneficial for both the author and reader. Not only does it help advertise the authors other stories that preceed or conclude the indexed story, but it also lets readers know there is more to the story.

Genre - A simple entry that lets the reader know what kind of a story the author is writing. Great for search engines.

Characters - Another simple entry that lets the reader know who is in the story. Great for search engines.

Keywords - This here would be where Julie's abbreviations would go.

Summary - 30 words or less. Describes briefly what the story is about.

Notes - Informs the reader if there are certain things the author wants them to know before reading. For example: EU inconsistances.

Of course we would still use Julie's abbreviation list unless someone can come up with a better one.

What do you think?

 

Mitth: I like your format, but it's a little on the long side. I think we have a greater chance of actually getting people to fill out the whole thing if it's shorter. So let me see if I can compress yours.

Date Began - This was pretty much borrowed from the current index form. Allows readers to know how long the story has been posted.

The New Stories Index (henceforth the NSI) is updated daily, so having this entry isn't a big deal either way. I'll be adding this in myself.

Status - This would let readers know if the story has been completed or still being written by the author.

I'm talking something to put up in the first post of a story - I'm doing the actual collection myself, so this isn't like the current stickies. Obviously a story (other than a vignette) that's just getting started will be in progress. I suppose that once every three months, authors could be PMed about the status of their stories. Julie did this occasionally.

Timeline - Let's readers know when the story takes place. We should use the timeline abbreviations ABY (After Battle of Yavin) and BBY (Before Battle of Yavin).

Definitely useful, but the timeline abbreviations you used aren't ones I've seen commonly - anyone else see them a lot in fan fic? If so, I'll add them to the abbreviations list.

Prequel/Sequel To - This is beneficial for both the author and reader. Not only does it help advertise the authors other stories that preceed or conclude the indexed story, but it also lets readers know there is more to the story.

I think that this would go better in a general notes section, just to save on space. I also can't think of anything else that would belong in a notes section.

Genre - A simple entry that lets the reader know what kind of a story the author is writing. Great for search engines.

I'd rather have this in keywords, to keep the number of fields to fill out smaller.

Characters - Another simple entry that lets the reader know who is in the story. Great for search engines.

Keywords - This here would be where Julie's abbreviations would go.

Summary - 30 words or less. Describes briefly what the story is about.

Notes - Informs the reader if there are certain things the author wants them to know before reading. For example: EU inconsistances.

I like the rest of these categories. For my own sanity, I'd rather have fewer categories that encompass more than having very specific categories. Any other opinions?

Mel

 

I would keep the Genre in at least. Because there are going to be people out there who just look at that to see what type of a fic it is. When I mean type, I am refering to: Action Adventure, Romance, Comedy, Suspense, Drama, Murder Mystery, Military Thriller, etc. Plus authors may neglect to put that in the Keywords section and result in disappointed readers. Believe me I've been disappointed before because of misinformation provided by the author. IMO, Keywords is just a thing for the search engine. Not to describe what the story is.

 

Timeline - Let's readers know when the story takes place. We should use the timeline abbreviations ABY (After Battle of Yavin) and BBY (Before Battle of Yavin).

Definitely useful, but the timeline abbreviations you used aren't ones I've seen commonly - anyone else see them a lot in fan fic? If so, I'll add them to the abbreviations list.

I haven't seen many people who care about specific timelines - whether it is one day ABY or thirty months ABY. As long as you have the main characters, I think it would be okay - perhaps instead of specific timelines, we should simply have eras (back to the past, Old Republic, Clone Wars, Rise of the Empire, Rebellion/Fall of the Empire, New Republic, NJO, far future)

I'm with Mitth on the genre issue - I think it would be better if we have the genre and the keywords as two seperate categories rather than one, because sometimes, I'm just in the mood to read action or military thrillers instead of basing it on characters. I too think that the genre will be most likely omitted if it is a part of the keywords section.

Other than that, the format's looking great Mel.

Aunecah

 

Okay, Mitth, Aunecah, I see your point. I'll add a genre field.

Title: Why Love Was Forbidden in the Old Jedi Order
Author(s): padawan lunetta and Melyanna
Timeframe: NJO
Rating: PG
Characters: Original characters, Luke Skywalker, Mara Jade, Jacen Solo, Ganner Rhysode, Corran Horn
Genre: romance, drama
Keywords: OC, AU, romance, Naboo
Summary: On a mission into the Unknown Regions, Luke Skywalker, his wife Mara, Corran Horn, Jacen Solo, Ganner Rhysode, and four young apprentices discover more than they bargained for about the Old Order of Jedi - and about each other.
Notes: Part of a post-Rebirth AU series by multiple authors.

Will that work for everyone?

(Oh, links are kind of unnecessary, I think - this is a format for people to use in the first post of the story.)

Okay, here's my revised version of the common terms and abbreviations list:

H/L - Han/Leia
L/M - Luke/Mara
Ani/Ami or A/A - Anakin and Amidala (Padmé)
J/J - Jaina/Jag
J/K - Jaina/Kyp
Obidala - Obi-Wan/Amidala
A/T - Anakin (Solo)/Tahiri
S/S - The Skywalker and Solo families
EU - Expanded Universe (all of the books)
JA - The Jedi Apprentice books about Obi-Wan's youth before TPM
JQ - The Jedi Quest books about Anakin Skywalker's youth before AotC.
PT - Episodes 1-3, the prequel trilogy
OT - Episodes 4-6, the original trilogy
NJO - The New Jedi Order books, 25 years post RotJ
TPM - The Phantom Menace
AotC - Attack of the Clones
ANH - A New Hope
ESB - The Empire Strikes Back
RotJ - Return of the Jedi
post-RotJ - takes place after the movies
pre-TPM - takes place before the movies
inter-trilogy - between the two trilogies
AU - alternate universe
Obi-torture - Obi-Wan gets hurt and comforted
H/C - hurt/comfort
squad fic - fighter squadron stories
humor - lots of silliness
angst - anguish, torment, fear, anxiety
crossover or x-over - mixing Star Wars with another movie, tv series or book
round robin or RR - multi-author story inviting more people to join in (also called an add-on)
song fic - a story based on the lyrics of a song

Mostly I added some couples that weren't in the original list - anything else?

Oh, and I'm thinking a message like this:

Welcome to the New Stories Index! This index is updated daily with all new stories from this forum, and at the end of the month all the entries in this thread will be compiled into a master index, along with the stories from the two other fan fiction forums here at the Jedi Council.

I will be maintaining this index, so if you have any questions, feel free to PM me. You can also PM me with the information for your story, though I will be locating the new stories every day.

To help standardize the entry format and to help me in gathering information, please put the following information in the first post of your story:

(yada yada yada, see above. )

Also, using the following abbreviations will be helpful to those wishing to use the find function in their browsers in order to effectively search this index:

(Up there 'cause I'm too lazy to copy it. )

And my mind has officially gone blank. Any more suggestions?

I still think a cross-referencing index (and I mean fully cross-referencing - characters, timeframes, genres, etc.) is a good idea even if hosted off-site, but I'm not sure anyone would be willing to take it on. Somehow I see months of sorting and coding involved on that one... Still, I'd be willing to lend my time to that project.

Mel

 

Hmm. Is the "rating" part really necessary? The boards are conservative PG, so you can have only G or PG, anyway. It's not that big a deal, but I'm speaking under the consideration of making things simpler.

On the other hand, even if the authors don't follow that thingiee's (whatever you want to call that - "synopsis" block ) formatting, I think we should very strongly encourage them to write summaries for their 'fics. That way, if nothing else, we at least don't have to hammer people for summaries of their 'fics.

Actually, I would be happy to take on updating indices based on characters and genres. I wanted to have two such indices for a long time, anyway. I don't mind doing them for all three indices, but I would like some volunteers to stay with me just in case I fall suddenly sick. Updating the indices once or twice (or maybe thrice) every day seems to be a good idea.

Oh yeah, here's a list of onsite and off-site resources that will help fanfic writers:

starwars.com databank
The Completely Unofficial Star Wars Encyclopedia
Star Wars Timetales
The Ultimate Star Wars Timeline
STAR WARS: Lightsabers

(Add a list of writers' resources sites)

That's all I can come up with. Anybody else know other good links?

EDIT: I just realized something. Romance, drama, vignette, and political intrigue aren't in the common terms and abbrevitions list...
Aunecah

 

I definitely agree - summaries would be nice. And encourage them to do the tagging like if its a H/L story - have them indicate it, etc.


I have probably missed out on a lot of good stories because of lack of information with titles.


This looks like a great idea, Mel. Good Luck!

 

I just want to clarify, because my head is muddy at the moment--these are indexes you're talking about keeping here at WR, right?

Anyway, here's the proposal--can we get a quick yay/nay?

The current two forums will be split into five: Writers' Resources (for all non-fic discussion of fic, including indexes), Reply-Only forum (current forum), Before the Saga, The Saga, Beyond the Saga (timelines as previously defined). At the top of each era board is a sticky thread with a welcome message defining the era, and links to indexes of stories which are kept here in Resources. In the header, each forum will link to the other four.

Can we get a simple yay/nay on that?

 

Looks good to me, JG.

Julie kept the daily update thread in the actual stories board - would it be a huge deal if I did the same thing? I can put it in WR, of course, but for some reason it just makes more sense to me to have it with the board it's indexing.

And since you're the manager around here, is putting the master index in a sticky thread possible? I'll be maintaining it, of course, but I do remember that there were a lot of people who commented after the stickies were available that Julie's master index should be in a sticky.

Mel

 

That looks great, JG. In fact, I'd like to second Mel with the indices - can we also include a link to the character and genre indices in the Welcome sticky thread? Namely, these are the indices I'm thinking about:

Ani/Ami
L/M
Obi-Wan Kenobi
J/J
J/K
A/T
H/L
S/S

Genres:
Romance
Drama
Action-adventure
Angst
Humor
Horror

(And any other that I've missed.)

I'm thinking about having two indices - one Character index and one Genre index in which the stories are sorted according to the character- and- Genre-based stories.

Does anybody have major problems with this?

EDIT: I'd have the two indices in the WR, of course. I don't think it's really necessary to have them in the actual stories boards.

Does anybody know if it will really help with the "Forum Search" if we include a keyword section in the first post of each 'fic?

Secondly, if we will have a Welcome sticky thread in each board, is the "Official Handbook and FAQ" really necessary? And how about the "Official Story Index"? Since we're having new indices, I think having a link to the old master index in the current sticky master index in the WR? Also, ehem, how about the Writer's Lounge link - is that really necessary I just would rather have the Story of the Week link in there. I, however, think it would work a little better if a horde of volunteers actually read old, completed stories (me, if nobody else will volunteer), and choose one of the stories to be put up in the header link each week (or every two weeks). Is it possible at all to keep the link there?

EDIT 3: As a tangent, I have a question that pertains to 'fics but not really the fanfic splitting (not really). Can we have spooky 'fics that are PG or less - a.k.a., the 'fic doesn't include anything graphic, but it is still spooky? (I have a strange sense of deja vu that I already asked this question before... )

Aunecah

 

Absolutely. The welcome thread would have links to any indexes people want to put in it.

EDIT: I don't think we have any rules against ghost stories, etc, as long as they're in the general PG and under bracket (lots are, and not just the kiddie ones, either--The Haunting of Hill House is brilliant, and never crosses the PG line in content--no real swearing, no sex, no violence... just spookiness and serious paranoia.)

 

Thumbs up for the outline, JG.

At the top of each era board is a sticky thread with a welcome message defining the era, and links to indexes of stories which are kept here in Resources.

This is really small, though I may have misunderstood somewhere along the lines. It was my impression that the ?Welcome? thread housed all helpful links ? not only indexes. If it?s not too much trouble, JG, could you PM me with the details of what links are going in there? That is, if the decision has been made.

Okay, let?s see if I can answer some of these questions.

I think we would clog up the new board sections if the indexes were placed where the actual stories are. A link to them, through the ?Welcome? thread, sounds adequate enough. That way the stories forum remains clear, but the WR stores all the necessary things. Mel, I would think the indexes would be given sticky status (now that sounds strange when I phrase it that way ).

Secondly, if we will have a Welcome sticky thread in each board, is the "Official Handbook and FAQ" really necessary? And how about the "Official Story Index"? Since we're having new indices, I think having a link to the old master index in the current sticky master index in the WR? Also, ehem, how about the Writer's Lounge link - is that really necessary I just would rather have the Story of the Week link in there.

The FAQ is still necessary, because the ?Welcome? thread is not going to have all the information needed for people starting out on the fanfiction boards. Of course I imagine the ?Welcome? thread will have a link to the FAQ included. I like the idea how the ?Official Story Index? link could be replaced with the current link. That would work out well. As for the lounge, I don?t know what JG wants to do, but I think the link does need to be replaced ? either with the new ?Community? or the ?Story of the Week? link. Sometime soon the awards will also have to fit in there, or they could otherwise go in the forum announcement header.

Like JG, my mind is a bit foggy in all these indexes, but I?m sure as long as one of the mods are sent a link to them, they will be edited and placed in each of the ?Welcome? threads.

As for what links should go in the ?Welcome? threads, I would like to suggest the thread, "The Indexes? Index: a guide to story indexes" to be placed in there.

Am

 

Let me see if I have this right...

This is what's going to be linked at the top, correct?

Before the Saga
Between the Saga
Beyond the Saga
Welcome Thread
Official Story Index
Official Handbook and FAQ
Writer's Resource Forum
The Writer's Lounge
Forum Search

And this is what we are going to have in each forum for sticky threads...?

All Boards
Welcome Thread
Index Thread (Author's post so won't need any maintaining)

Writer's Resource
Welcome Thread
Official Story Index (with links to individual board index? and is maintained monthly?)
Official Handbook and FAQ


And what is the "Reply-Only" board?