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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Should the fanfic forum be split up?

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by JediGaladriel, Feb 1, 2003.

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Should the fanfic forum be split up?

Poll closed Mar 1, 2003.
  1. Yes--there's too much traffic for one board and stories are being overlooked.

    425 vote(s)
    78.7%
  2. No--I prefer the fanfic forum to be unified, so all stories get the same chance.

    115 vote(s)
    21.3%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Melyanna

    Melyanna Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2001
    Grrr, must learn to type faster...

    Then that's because the author doesn't bother to advertise. I actually sent private messages to a bunch of random people asking if they'd like to read my fic. The ones that like it stuck. And over the course of two years, me and my partner have picked up a few new readers.

    That's all there is to it. Ask, and they may come. If nobody reads, what does that say?


    Ugh, that's just not true. We went through this last summer, I guess, about advertising stories and such. There's an author here (whom I will keep anonymous) who is really a great writer, one of the best I've read here. But he started out writing stories that weren't read very much because they just weren't about popular topics. Then when he wrote a story in a different vein, it got a considerable number of readers right off the bat. Did something change in the interim about his writing? Did he suddenly get better? No. He started writing a story that fit a larger audience.

    But this is way off topic. The point of this is to give all the stories room to breathe and be seen. Will it help? I don't know. We won't know until we try it, but for me, all indications are that it will help the traffic problem immensely.

    Mel
     
  2. katha

    katha Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2002
    And you know, not everyone can win. Just because this is a PG board doesn't mean that every single person needs to be read. Some stories will sink to the bottom.

    It

    happens.


    Sure it does, but the point is some people's stories sink so fast that no one sees them. I have one story and it sinks to the 10th page within an hour. Half the time its at the bottom of the page as soon as I post an update

    The good stories stay at the top not because of what timeline they're in, but because they're GOOD STORIES.

    I can't believe anyone would say that! I'm not saying of course that the ones on the top aren't good, but just because one isn't on top doesn't mean its NOT good.


    I believe I will vote yes for this split.
    Though I agree that spliting the forum up too much would be in convenient to all.

    I would be willing to keep the forums as is if the index were imporved (maybe slightly more sections or something, I dunno)
     
  3. ami-padme

    ami-padme Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 1999
    If a great writer is working on stories with characters, time periods, or genres that aren't all that popular here, I doubt splitting the forum is going to help that, or suddenly change people's tastes. I wouldn't call that unfair -- people like what they like. And I don't know that indexes, split forums, or whatever else is going to help.

    As for the general speed of the forum...I guess we'll just wait and see what happens when a gazillion Ep. III stories are written, and there are writers in that forum who still feel that they aren't getting their fair share of time on the front page, and that they don't have readers (or, a lot of readers) because there are too many stories, too many "ups" in the popular stories, etc., etc. If we do wind up splitting the forums, I hope, at least, this will be the end of the road. There's only so much stuff that can be done, there are only so many spots on the front page, and no matter what happens, there will always be people who believe that if only x-y-z were done, they'd get the attention they deserve. I'm against the split, but if it happens, let that be it.
     
  4. Grand_Admiral_Jaxx

    Grand_Admiral_Jaxx Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2000
    so what's next, banning the "ups"??

    if people want to read a story, they will. it's just WHAT story they want to read is up to them. so what if the more popular stories are "mediocre"? It's like TV- Friends is a show that I think is mediocre, but it gets a lot of attention. Do I whine and gripe? No. I turn to something else, like the history channel. I work around the problem.
     
  5. DarthBreezy

    DarthBreezy Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 4, 2002
    but if it happens, let that be it.

    But it won't be the end of it....

    Man, I can see that market bridge getting closer...
     
  6. JediGaladriel

    JediGaladriel Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 3, 1999
    but if it happens, let that be it.

    But it won't be the end of it....


    Yeah, I have a feeling that it kinda will. I don't think that infinite splitting would get the kind of support that one major split would from the people whose boards these are.

    TFN is not a fan fiction forum, it's a SW forum with an active fanfic board. It's a concession to split it into three or four; splitting it into fragments would be very odd in context. Heck, the whole Classic Trilogy discussion only has one board here. We're talking about essentially having five fanfic boards--Resources, Old Stories board, plus three categories. That's edging up toward having a whole fanfic site... which isn't a bad idea, but I'm sure is not how TFN wants to define itself.

    Nothing is going to solve the problem of stories in unpopular genres not getting as many readers as stories in popular ones. I'm a "name" writer to an extent, but my original character stories fall right off the boards, too, and they definitely hit a plateau near the bottom of the hit counts in the Archive, too. People come to read fanfic instead of going to the library to read non-SW fiction because they like certain things about the SW universe... no amount of board-splitting is going to change that.
     
  7. Grand_Admiral_Jaxx

    Grand_Admiral_Jaxx Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2000
    People come to read fanfic instead of going to the library to read non-SW fiction because they like certain things about the SW universe... no amount of board-splitting is going to change that.

    EXACTLY! That's why the boards shouldn't be split.
     
  8. Grand_Admiral_Jaxx

    Grand_Admiral_Jaxx Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2000
    the awards ceremonies on the boards used to be a lot simpler. There were fewer categories, so by winning it was an honor. Now there's a gazillion categories and nobody wants to go through that effort to vote. Now the "prize" is dimished.

    it's the same principle here.
     
  9. Melyanna

    Melyanna Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 2001
    Let's not drag the awards into this, okay? No matter how it's done, people complain about it.

    The argument about this isn't advertising or popularity. There are just too many active threads for one board. The front page is prime real estate, as someone (Herman, I think) put it, and when a story doesn't stay there for more than half an hour, that's not fair to authors or readers.
     
  10. DesignSith

    DesignSith Jedi Master star 2

    Registered:
    Feb 12, 2000
    Yes. I'm tired of digging through prequel stories. Even if you just split up PT and OT it'll make looking for things much easier.
     
  11. Kit'

    Kit' Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 1999
    The good stories stay at the top not because of what timeline they're in, but because they're GOOD STORIES. Splitting the boards will not make it easier.

    I'm reading a great story now. It's fantastically written and guess what - I'm its only reader. The girl who writes it has advertised her fic, but she hasn't got any more readers. People are too busy wading through the torrent of other stories that they are going to miss the few good ones.

    Having been on this board for close to four years I honestly have to say that popularity comes really down to two things - being a 'recognised' name -- in the sense that people will look through the boards for your name to see if there are new stories -- and writing about a subject/character which most people want to read about - like writing about JA a year ago or now writing about Jaina and Jag.

    When I started here the boards were slower. For my first story I had over 20 replies - my story was only two posts long and the worst piece of writing I have ever done. I know that if I had written that same story and posted it in the current situation the boards are in, I would have recieved no replies and I would have ended up losing interest, becoming discouraged and I would never have stuck around for as long as I have.

    Kithera
     
  12. Casper_Knightshade

    Casper_Knightshade Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Oct 18, 2000
    Jaxx is absolutely right; every time the Awards Threads had too many catagories to make people happy, or so the theory went, interest was lost pretty fast. I've been here long enough to see it happen three times now in over three years. That's also why I suggested that last year/last time winners not be carried over to the next Award Thread; so new writers may be nominated and get exposure. The Awards Threads Are Ad Threads.

    One of the things that effect all writers, and not just here but all over the world, is that not everyone is going to read their stories no more how much advertising is done period. That's life, and it does suck.

    Eventually history is going to repeat itself if the Boards split; people will begin to complain about not getting enough exposure. It's going to happen, and we can't split the boards up again just to have a Free Up list. TF.N won't tolerate that and before you know it they will give up on Fan Fiction Boards here all together.

    Ultimately the problem here is that there's too many authors and not enough readers; if you think about it, the vast majority of readers here are writing and posting here as well; everyone in my reading circle is a storyteller. There are very few folks that just read; our seclusion from the rest of the Boards overall has its curses and this is one of them. What I did two years ago was, six months apart, went to the JC Community and invited folks there to read what we have here and it worked. I stopped it when AOTC euphoria took hold of folks and people blitzed these boards all through summer. Now, they're gone; some of them anyways.

    What I would encourage a lot of folks to do if they are 'looking' for fan fiction to read, especially newbies looking for newbie fiction, I would change your display settings to 50 posts per page to maximize your search effect. That will solve a great deal of the problem.

    As for new authors; I really do feel for ya. If anything, I would find a better way to get you noticed than by splitting the Boards. If there is a split, then I would recommend a New Author Board and a Old Author Board; New Authors will have their first stories there, and a newbie audience will flock there to see what they have because they're all newbies, and they're all nervous.
     
  13. Whiskey in the Jar-Jar

    Whiskey in the Jar-Jar Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2000
    I decided to vote no for splitting up the boards.

    When I started posting I had to shamelessly up my thread several times before someone took notice, and I included the links to my threads in my signature.

    If you're going to write, I think you should at least be willing to give up the whole 'master to padawan X' or 'padawan to rogue12 of some fictional squadron' and plug your story that way. Splitting the forum up takes accountability away from the authors to be responsible for their own stories.

    If you start a story here, I think it's up to you to advertise it with links or plugs in threads dedicated to such things. Besides, let's face it, folks, we all can't have thousands of posts on our threads or have a following equivalent to half the registered users here...it's not gonna happen. If it does, great, if not, be thankful for what audience you have and continue to write.

    Levelling the playing field is best accomplished if everyone takes better care of their own threads, and leave the boards as is.

    OF course, that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.
     
  14. Coota

    Coota Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 2, 2002
    Except that this has very little to do with exposure, and everything to do with clutter.

    Hypothetically, if there are a hundred stories being updated right now, and we were somehow able to split those hundred into three seperate groups, then the amount of stories being bumped and updated with each passing day on each of those three forums would obviously be much less, and go much slower. It would just make everything a little easier to browse, without having to refresh every ten seconds.

    Jaxx and others are opposing this for all the wrong reasons. Not to mention that several people are being a little bit arrogant by claiming that stories that fall to the bottom deserve to fall to the bottom. Maybe sometimes this is true, but I doubt you can make the judgement call without really checking around. Maybe those people were just unwilling to spam people's PMs like Jaxx claims is neccessary to become read.

    Having said that, I don't think that splitting the boards will change who gets read, and who doesn't. I don't think that's even an issue. I do think, however, that splitting the boards will slow down post rates, at least for a good long while. And if it doesn't, big deal. At least it's a try It's not like you're really being troubled if you have to look in three areas of a forum for a story, rather than one.
     
  15. Spike2002

    Spike2002 Former FF-UK RSA and Arena Manager star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 4, 2002
    Is that a "yes" Coota?
     
  16. Lyta_Skywalker

    Lyta_Skywalker Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 2002
    Whisky in the Jar Jar,

    That would be wonderful, if I didn't have other things which needed to be in my signature, mainly the links to the Fan Force I happen to be City Rep for. Sorry, but I really doubt that the members of my FF would really appreciate it if I gave my fics advertising space which should be used to promote the group.

    Just my 2 creds worth.

    Jaded
     
  17. GreyJediAntarFodoh

    GreyJediAntarFodoh Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 3, 2001
    It's already been said, but to Sith with it... The fanfic forum is way too high traffic and many great stories get overlooked. Even posts from earlier today are all the way on page 8.
     
  18. RosyRedFinguredDawn

    RosyRedFinguredDawn Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 19, 2003
    Yes definalty. I'm new to the boards, and while it has quickly become one of my favorite places to go for stories, I was immediatly struck at how difficult it was to navigate in order to find a particular story or genre. I think, if it were possible, that the fanfiction should be broken up by both era and type (i.e. I could look for Pre-TPM angst or NJO humor.) Additionally this might give newer stories and authors a chance to be read more. Thanks.
    ~Dawn

    Yub Yub!
     
  19. Rose_Skywalker

    Rose_Skywalker Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2002


    I think there should be an easy way to categorize everything.

    There's
    Before the Saga-everything pre TPM
    During the Saga- everything from TPM to ROTJ
    After the Sage-everything after ROTJ
    Other- anything where people aren't sure where it would go.

    I think everything could be categorized into those. Then all the AU and crossovers have some place to go. It saves everyone time and energy. I can never find my story, i always have to dig it out from page 11.

    ~*Rose*~

     
  20. Scruffy-looking

    Scruffy-looking Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    May 26, 2002
    Not to toot my own horn, but if people are interested here is a link to an earlier discussion in Writer's Resource about this same topic.

    If the forum is split, I think doing it according to the way the Sticky Indexes are done (pre-Saga, Saga, post-Saga) would be the best compromise. If it isn't split, perhaps we should try to educate people to 'up' with restraint. ;)

     
  21. Miana Kenobi

    Miana Kenobi Admin Emeritus star 8 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Apr 5, 2000
    And does it matter if your story sinks? As long as you have a few faithful readers who provide thoughtful and insightful comments, that's far better than 2,000 readers posting "Yay! want more." and forget about you until the next post.

    EXACTLY, Jaxx...

    Just a side note/recomendation, Let's please try to keep the Awards out of this. Even though I'm one of those people who isn't all that impressed with the Awards, that subject is completely different then the matter at hand. This topic is about the splitting of the forum, not awards. ;)

    As one of the older people in here, I can remember when there was no such thing as "Writer's Resource." The WR was made to take all the "clutter" (things that aren't stories) out of the Fan Fiction forum. We already have 2 boards for fan fic., and it was hectic enough when WR was added.

    And you know, not everyone can win. Just because this is a PG board doesn't mean that every single person needs to be read. Some stories will sink to the bottom.

    It

    happens.


    Once again, very good point, Jaxx. I know from experience that some stories just don't make it. Granted, when I was new, during the reign of UBB, new stories got read because there was no variety. Now, times have changed, and you have all the variety you want. But, if the forum be split, everything will be organized into it's own category, which will clear up the clutter, and let stories stay on page 1 longer.

    WHOOPTY-DOO.

    As I asked before, "Who here really writes for the sole purpose of getting readers??" We write because we WANT TO, and fan fiction is the only place where we can technically "publish" our stories.

    I know that things would be more organized when it's seperated, but again, I feel it would be depriving some stories of readers. I'm one of those people who, when in the mood, will look over the first dozen or so pages. If a story that I normally wouldn't read catches me eye, I'll read it.

    If the forum is split, then those of us who stick to one genre won't catch these stories.

    And also, to the "having to dig your story up from the depths of the board", you can save yourself a heck of a lot of time by simply going to your profile, clicking on "View Latest Posts" and finding the story there, where you won't have to dig through pages for it. IT'S NOT THAT HARD.
     
  22. Grand_Admiral_Jaxx

    Grand_Admiral_Jaxx Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2000
    Amen Miana!

    Maybe those people were just unwilling to spam people's PMs like Jaxx claims is neccessary to become read.


    Whoa whoa whoa whoa! I never said anything about spamming. I asked the people whose stories I read. I started by READING other people's stories, then I asked if they would like to read mine. Most were kind enough to say yes.

    Not to mention that several people are being a little bit arrogant by claiming that stories that fall to the bottom deserve to fall to the bottom.

    I know you didn't refer to me specifically, but I said that the good stories stay at the top, or the more popular stories stay at the top, not that the bad ones sink.

    Going on with Miana, what I do is I bookmark my threads. I add them to my favorites.

    It's ridiculously easy to do it that way, and you don't have to go through the main board, unless you're bored.
     
  23. Kit'

    Kit' Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 1999
    It doesn't however stop the fact that newer authors are being overlooked or that thier stories are pushed down so quickly.

    As for who writes for the replies. I think you'll find that an awful lot of people do. Otherwise why would be write here? Why not just publish it on your own website (so easy to set-up in yahoo) - that why you can write just for the sake of writing. Writing on a message board is one of those instances where you are going to expect to get replies...people usually want feedback - it's how they improve and write better stories.

    There is a big difference now being a new author then there was when I first started. A lot of that realzly does have to do with the pace of the boards and how fast stories fall.

    Kithera
     
  24. DarthKimballDreamer

    DarthKimballDreamer Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2002
    I'm very new to these boards, I realize that-I only joined last September. But I voted "no" to these boards being split.
    I don't find my stories in a specific manner...I don't look for particular time periods, or even characters, really. I look for stories that sound interesting, or that are recommended on a story I read regularly. I'm mainly an "accidental reader", I suppose. I also don't use the main board to find my stories-I look through my latest posts, or bookmark the stories as I go along. Perhaps that is the minority, but it is how I look for them.
    Also, perhaps I am missing something. But a good portion of the stories I read (I'm currently reading around 7 or so) are not yet completed. Will the writers be forced to re-post in a new forum? And of the stories that ARE completed, one of the things I really enjoy are seeing the comments and responses between their posts, hearing feedback and making connections. That's part of what I enjoy so much about these boards, the connection.
    I'm no Star Wars expert. These boards are where I first encountered any characters that weren't mentioned in the films. But I was able to discover them and become more interested in them with the boards the way they are, with the freedom to very easily check whichever story caught my eye.
    But like I said...that's just me.
    ~**Kimball**~
     
  25. Grand_Admiral_Jaxx

    Grand_Admiral_Jaxx Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 23, 2000
    Very well put, Kimball.

    And as for those struggling new readers, there are 2 simple steps.

    A) Become a loyal reader of other people's fan fictions, learn from them, watch what they do and how they respond to other people, and how the behavior and such is conducted on the boards. Be a LOYAL reader to the stories you like to read. Then when you post your own, you can send them a PM asking if they want to read yours. Chances are, they'll say yes. And most of them will stick around.

    and

    B) Advertising does work. There was a person who posted and advertised her story at one of the most popular threads recently, and she has a lot of readers as a result of this. She would have at least 5 fewer readers if it weren't for her successful advertising.
     
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