Should the Imperial March be added to A New Hope?

Discussion in 'Star Wars And Film Music' started by Demon_Lord_Piccolo, Apr 13, 2001.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Moderators: Darth_Nub
  1. jadailyTCU Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 26, 2005
    star 1
    Duel of the Fates in Empire Strikes Back? Interesting. I love DotF, but I'm not sure where it would be appropriate. I'd love to hear/see it, though. I almost think DotF would go better during the huge battle sequence in Return of the Jedi (what with the whole multiple battle thing), but I'd hate to do away with such excellent music that already exists there.
  2. neo_mp5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2004
    star 4
  3. DexterJettster28 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    People here are saying that ANH cannot be touched because it's a pop culture icon. It is indeed, but since Lucas has already over-tinkered with it (Jabba, Greedo, Dewbacks, etc.), adding a little IM music wouldn't be any worse than that Jabba scene.

    I think if we want ANH in its pure pop culture form, it needs to be re-released as the 1977 version; adding more to the special edition is nothing too dramatic.

    Adding DotF to ESB! Sounds great. Personally, it would be interesting if Lucas and Williams sat down with ALL SIX films and re-thought the music cues, add some music from TPM, AOTC, ROTS to the OT, and even remix music from the newer trilogy as well. If Lucas is going to make these 3-D and tinker more (I am sure he will find something else to change in the next variation), try tinkering with the music for a change.

  4. neo_mp5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2004
    star 4
    can somebody download the videos and tell me if they work?
  5. Cerrabore Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 4
    Adding DotF to ESB! Sounds great. Personally, it would be interesting if Lucas and Williams sat down with ALL SIX films and re-thought the music cues, add some music from TPM, AOTC, ROTS to the OT, and even remix music from the newer trilogy as well. If Lucas is going to make these 3-D and tinker more (I am sure he will find something else to change in the next variation), try tinkering with the music for a change.

    Yeah, I can see the advantages of removing original music and replacing it with existing recordings of material written 15-25 years later for a totally different purpose.
  6. nisomer Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2004
    star 1
    none of the links work for me.
  7. neo_mp5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2004
    star 4
    they keep closing it down because the idiot who i got to make the page won't put the other content on, and angelfire thinks i'm just using it for file storage.


    annyone know a place where i can store the files?

    there's 4 of them, the largest ones are almost 3mb
  8. AnakinBrego Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2004
    star 3
    In adding the Imperial March to ANH I have noticed that it was used lightly in ROTS, most likely to fit in with ANH where it is non-existent until ESB.
  9. neo_mp5 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 21, 2004
    star 4
    yeah, i really think imperial march needs to be in 4, because it's in all the others

    when yoda says "grave danger i fear in his training" in 1

    in the lars garage scene and finale of 2

    several times in the soundtrack of 3 (mmostly that version of "the clash of lightsabres")

    all through 5

    and a lot in 6

    but none in 4.
  10. Sly_Moore_Rules Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2005
    I would bow to whatever Williams says. I don't think it's needed though; the music now works just fine.

    I appreciate the merits of "true artistic vision" when it comes to making the movie everthing we/Lucas want it to be, but I think it's almost time for "pencils down" here. This constant ANH tinkering would be Paul McCartney taking the original "Let it Be" and replacing the old, muddy piano with some pristine digital one. In terms of changing up the music to ANH, I say Let It Be.
  11. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Not to get off topic here, but the analogy of "Let It Be" is an interesting one. Paul was most unhappy with Phil Spector's production of that album. So much so that he had the original sessions released as an album called "Let It Be...Naked".

    My point has always been that we have the original score; but wouldn't you love to hear what JW would do given the opportunity to score the entire saga, knowing all the characters and events?
  12. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    "wouldn't you love to hear what JW would do given the opportunity to score the entire saga, knowing all the characters and events? "

    But I think we have gotten that to a great extent. It's just that he's molding the rest of the saga around ANH, thus the subdued use of IM in ROTS.

    I think adding new themes to the score of ANH would just clutter it up musically. (hey, let's put DOTF as Luke rides back to the farm, it's kinda like Anakin going after his mother; BotH would be so good for Vader/Kenobi; etc.)




    ttbk




  13. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Well, it would be nice to have consistent use of the major themes that he hadn't yet written in ANH or ESB. I don't think DOTF has a place in the OT. But the IM vs. ANH imperial theme, and the Emperor's theme, for instance. I think a really brief, melancholy BotH might work in the ANH duel.
  14. The-Tennis-Ball-Kid Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2004
    star 3
    Like I said, I think Williams was working so that Darth Vader's theme (Or "The ANH Imperial theme" as some people insist on calling it :p) wouldn't clash with the use of the Imperial March. But I haven't had a chance to watch ROTS/ANH/ESB yet.

    As for Palpy's theme, it's just the one scene in ESB, the idea of having the basically the same rendition we heard in TPM doesn't greatly excite me, and the underscore for that scene strikes me as excellent commentary on the rather chilly relationship Vader had with Sids...

    I do not think Both should be in the Vader/Kenobi fight, it's a theme for The Duel, like The Dark Side Beckons is for Luke letting go and knocking "The Chosen One" silly in the throne room.




    ttbk
  15. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    Well, perhaps a brief IM somewhere in the ANH duel then. ;)

    And also, I thought that JW might work in a little "ANH Imperial Theme" (I use that term to avoid confusion with the IM as "Darth Vader's Theme") in to ROTS... ah well.
  16. Sly_Moore_Rules Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2005
    This *whole topic* among other topics, as well as the "Let It Be" topic really center one one question as I see it:

    Who claims the work as property? Does it belong to the fans (in this case us) or the original artist (GL)?

    If GL changes too much, we'll feel betrayed; but how much can he change and still remain somewhat satisfied? How do we find the careful balance between who really "owns" this work?
  17. General Kenobi Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Dec 31, 1998
    star 6
    John Lennon said he always thought the idea that anyone "owned" music was ridiculous.
  18. Sly_Moore_Rules Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 27, 2005
    What I am really trying to say is who has the right to determined what the "right" thing to do with a work of art is? Are GL's responsibilities towards the fans or towards his own vision?
  19. DarthSkeptical Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 2001
    star 3
    To reply to something said much earlier in the thread, the "Imperial March" is first and foremost the Imperial March. It is only parenthetically "Vader's Theme". Not only is it acceptable for it to be included in the final sequences of Episode II, it's damn near thematically imperative. One of the key points of the films is that Vader is a puppet of the Emperor, and the growth of "Augie's Theme" from Episode I into "The Imperial March" corresponds precisely with the storyline to which it's the backdrop.

    We don't see it fully gaining its dual use as Vader's theme until Episode III's "Anakin vs. Obi-Wan", the musical intersection of ?Duel of the Fates" and "Across the Stars" (i.e. "Battle of the Heroes") and the "Imperial March". It's altogether appropriate that "Vader's Theme" and "Imperial March" are one in the same, because it goes to further prove that the character's actions have led his individual persona back into slavery.

    For this reason, the "Imperial March" has no real place in A New Hope, because, thematically, Episode IV's story is that of Luke, who, in so many ways, has little more than a, dare I say it, midi-chlorian connection with what has come before, and no idea of what will come. The New Hope references in Episodes II and III are much more important to the overall story, thematically, than any retrofit of "Imperial March" to Episode IV could ever be.

    Those references, it seems to me, are appropriate, because they are looking towards Anakin?s future. To have the ?Imperial March? in Episode IV would be to insert it at a point in that character?s life where he doesn?t really have more than a vague knowledge of what the Empire is. By the time we get to Episode V, Luke is a seasoned leader in the Rebellion. The battle lines are clearly drawn and the Empire is a part of Luke?s present. More to the point, Episode V isn?t just Luke?s story anymore. After taking a movie to establish the ?next generation?, Episode V brings us firmly back to Vader/Anakin as a central character?so, naturally, the ?Imperial March? comes with him.
  20. classified Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 4
    there is not enough music in ANH. the PT has amazing music. truly amazing, but i watched ANH yeterday for the first time in a few months and was disapointed to see the lack of music in the duel, and other places.
  21. Emperor's Prize Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 17, 1999
    star 4
    Instead of adding the Imperial March into ANH, I always thought that the "Imperial Theme" from ANH should have been used in AOTC. Since we most often hear that ANH theme in connection with seeing Stormtroopers on-screen, hearing that theme associated with the Clone Army of AOTC would have built a much stronger bridge than injecting the Imperial March into ANH. Though, I can really think of only two places to play the Imperial March in ANH: when Vader first steps onto the Tantiv and at the very end when we see him flying away in his TIE. Doing that would be unobtrusive to the overall story, and yet maintain that musical thread.
  22. TheBoogieMan Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 14, 2001
    star 6
    My point has always been that we have the original score; but wouldn't you love to hear what JW would do given the opportunity to score the entire saga, knowing all the characters and events?


    "Star Wars...naked".


    Hmm... I hope they do the PT. o_O
  23. YodaOz Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 1
    I think that John Williams should add the Imperial March in ANH when Vader makes his first apperance. It should not be the 'full blown' Imperial March but a more subtle cue which will match that scene.
  24. Strilo Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 8
    I agree completely with that.
  25. AL_Patterson Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2007
    star 2
    Do like they do in the others and play it every time they show Vader's ship.
Moderators: Darth_Nub
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.