Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?

Discussion in 'Archive: Census and Games' started by Liz Skywalker, Jun 30, 2002.

?

Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?

Poll closed Mar 24, 2012.
Yes. 134 vote(s) 31.5%
No. 247 vote(s) 58.0%
It should be made optional, but it shouldn't be stricken. 16 vote(s) 3.8%
Undecided. 3 vote(s) 0.7%
Don't care either way. 26 vote(s) 6.1%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. RangerPrincess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    star 4

    I say No, it's been like that for a long time, and when I say it, I really don't care, I really don't know what it means anyways.
  2. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    So then why even say it?

    Latre! :D
  3. RangerPrincess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    star 4

    Because my teachers get after me if I don't, I have to. **sigh* School rule
  4. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    But that's one of the issues discussed here, somewhere, I think. :p

    You don't have to say it.

    People who say leave it also argue that it's not mandatory. There is no law saying you have to say it.

    If I were you, and didn't really want to say it, don't. If you do, that's cool too.

    But don't think for one second that you actually have to say it because the school says so.

    Just trying to be somewhat helpful and informative. :D

    Latre! :D
  5. DARTHMOM10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Whoa!!! I'm gone for a week or so and all this happens!!! What a mess!!! :( Oh well, here we go again:

    Fat_Fett - I am truly sorry to hear about your fathers friends and the other missionaries who have lost their lives in spreading the gosphel of our lord and savior, Jesus.

    However, you must learn to seperate your passions for the Lord and how you express them to others. If you go off ranting and raving, no one will listen to you or hear what you have to say. If you want to, speak to people the with the heart of Jesus ... compassionate, patient, and understanding. He listened as well as spoke.

    And remember, EVERYONE has a voice here and they are free to express it. I don't agree with (or even like) some of what has been said here and I state my opinion. But I still listen to what they have to say and think about their opinions objectively as possible and really try to understand and respect them for it. And why not? We live here in the United States of America ... you know, the land of free! We all have the freedom to speak .... even if no one or not everyone agrees with us.

    Please try to be tolerant of what others are saying and think about why they are saying what they are saying. I hope that you understand what I'm trying to express to you.

    Master-Jedi-Smith - FF's statement did not pertain to putting athiests in jail nor do I think that he/she meant to say that. He was simply upset at knowing what missionaries actually go through and then felt insulted (as I'm sure you have by others who have gone against your beliefs and comments) at what others have said here. Everyone has the right to express their opinions ... and their feelings. You've done so before youself. ;)

    Nor did FF say that the deaths of others who believe differently than theirs' is okay, right, or good. You are taking what was said and twisting it for your own bennefit and to be able to insult and inrage others. State your opinion and disagree if you have to, but use factual information and some opinions worded a bit more tactfully. Perhaps you should extend the hand of objectivity and then others may follow behind you.

    If you consistantly make hateful statements, then you will only inflame others. And gone are the days were missionaries "pushed" or "forced" their beliefs upon others. The practices of which you are speaking of where commited by the Catholic church many hundreds of years ago. And if someone comes up to you to speak the gosphel, then simply say "thank you, but I'm not interested" and walk away. That's all. They have just as much rigth to state their opinions as you do ... if you were going up to them to tell them that there was no god, it would be the same way.

    Just because someone believes in something enough to die for it doesn't make it true. Well said, Saint_of_Killers!!!!

    Master-Jedi-Smith - I see I made the list of village idiots. Yippee! Stop that, Sweetie!!! You KNOW that drives me nuts when you say things like that! [face_plain]

    And has anyone checked the numbers lately for the majority religions in the U.S.? Christianity is still the #1 religion right now .... but its quickly changing. There is a growing number of Muslims in this country. How does everyone feel about saying "one nation, under Allah?"

    Who here has proposed to take away people's right to bare arms, or right to practice religion? The way the laws are going now, and the way that people are complaining about guns, soon it will be illegal to own one. It'll still be a few more years, but its coming ... trust me.

    xoman - You are correct ... Jesus was Jewish and he wasn't white either!

    You are also correct, dizfactor - Buddha is a Buddha, but "Buddha" does not equal "God."

    that is such a load of garbage. you are free to say whatever you please. As do you .... and I see that you are doing so very well, dizfactor

    I think that even if someone is an atheist, they still worship
  6. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Well done again DM10! :)

    :::tips hat in her direction::: ;)

    Glad that you're back! See how I behave when you aren't here. :p

    And you make an excellent point.

    We all have the right to say what we want, and as you have pointed out, we usually do. :D

    And you a correct when you say that we should listen to what others have to say, and try not to flame them.

    But you know that sometimes I just can't resist. [face_devil]

    Please don't leave us again DM10! I missed you! :)

    Latre! :D
  7. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    sleazo - I really wish Christians would stop pushing their religion on everyone else. How are they? Are you sure they're not just stating their opinions, just as you are? Are they not allowed to fight for they believe in the same as you? Everyone has the right to speak and fight for what they believe in. They'll do it, as I'm sure you will too!

    By forcing me to utter the words under god in the pledge to my country. Thats how
  8. DARTHMOM10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    sleazo - Is that it? The way that you were speaking (and from comments that you've made on other threads) you speak as if you have had a gun to your head by a Christian forcing you to utter words or do things that are against your will.

    If you don't want to say the pledge, don't say it. Instead of criticizing people for their beliefs, try to think of ways that you can show them yours. If you truly are being "forced" to do something that you feel violates your civil rights, tell someone about it, get an attorney to fight the system .... but just "complaining" about it doesn't do anyone any good, especially for yourself.

    I thought we lived in "America" .... you know, where we have "freedoms" to do or NOT DO what we want. :)

    Here, in this thread, I think everyone or should I say "most" everyone, wants to try to figure out a way to accomodate everyone's beliefs or non-beliefs. You want the "under God" removed the same as others, but there are those who want "God" to stay in. There may never be a compromise that makes everyone happy .... so what do you think?

    Is there a way for a compromise? Should we do away with the pledge entirely? Have two pledges? Some people want to do away with the pledge because most people don't say it or stand up for it or have better things to do or other stuff going on .... etc, etc, etc. Do you have any constructive ideas to add? ?[face_plain] Let us know, but please don't complain and give no solutions to the question/problem at hand.

    Master-Jedi-Smith ..... [face_blush] You are such a naughty boy!!!! Yes, I'm back and will try not to leave you alone by yourself for too long. I know how you are - you have a wicked sense of humor, but I think that's part of what I like about you. At least you try to add a bit of humor to break up some of the strongly worded sentiments are that show up here. :) I'm glad that you throw in your two-cents worth and are trying to be objective with others are saying.

    I appreciate it ... eventhough I know that you don't always like what others are saying, thinking, believing. It is hard sometimes to be patient and understanding. Continue to try to be "good." But I'll admit that it IS a lot more fun to be BAD [face_devil]


  9. Rebecca191 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 1999
    star 6
    I think a compromise would be to allow people to say the pledge the way they want to. With or without "under God".
  10. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Thanks for understanding DM10! :)

    I agree with you Rebecca191, but my only concern is what would be the offical POA.

    As it is now, it has a religious reference in it. My arguement is that it should not because this country is made up of many different people, with many different backgrounds, cultures, and belief systems.

    Those who I have seen argue for it to remain in the POA seem not to acknowledge that fact. This country of ours does not belong to any one religious group or race.

    I wish they would step back, look at it from another perspective and try to understand that, instead of saying that it should remain in the POA just because they believe in God.

    I have tried to look at this from many different perspectives. When I suggest it be taken out, I am not doing so because I hate religion. Not at all. I would just like the POA to be inclusive for everyone who is a citizen in the U.S., and in my eyes, when it says "one nation under God," it just isn't doing it.

    Of couse, like I have said before, we could always have two official versions. :)

    Latre! :D
  11. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Well mom, i actually believe that there is no place for the word God in any offical staement, pledge, national anthem, legal document etc. in the United States of America. So i guess you think i have no constructive solution being as how this upsets so many in this country. I dont want to just rehash the smae things that have been said by others in this thread. But my reasons are similar to theirs, I dont think the rights of those who do not believe in the Judeo Christian concept of God should be infringed upon because there are those that wish to push their beliefs on others and that their belief is the only true way.


    "get an attorney to fight the system "

    Someone already did that, being as how i dont have kids I dont run into the pledge very often.
    that said I do not go into Churches and try to tell people why i believe that there is no God and force them to say this in their prayers. I also dont go around on the streets preaching to people that there is no god ( as there are Christians who harrass people in NYC).
    So i am not merely insulting Christians, i Am providing some of my reasoning as to why God should be stricken from the Official record.
  12. Veng_Commando Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2001
    star 4
  13. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Yes, I think that the phrase "under God" should be taken out of the POA.

    I, personally, do not believe in any religion, but I am not flaming anything. Don't you think that if you were Muslim, you would be offended by a Christian belief being smack-dab in the middle of a pledge to your own country. Of course, a lot of countries in the Middle East force Islam upon their citizens, but the U.S.A. is the home of the free. Forcing religion upon others is wrong.

    No, our country was not founded on Christianity. A lot of the Americans were Christian, but the founding fathers wanted to keep the government from having an established religion. I think that America might have turned out to be a lot like Israel or Ireland if the government operated with an official religion. No offense to either country, just making a point.

    Please do not beat me or anyone else down because of their beliefs.

    Can't we all just get along? :D
  14. RangerPrincess Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 23, 2002
    star 4

    It's not a school rule for students to say the pledge of allegiance, but if we don't, they yell at us and make us stand up for the whole period.

    My science teacher always says, "As a US citizen, you *should* say the pledge"

    :p
  15. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Well, tell him as a U.S. citizen, you have the right to decide whether or not you WANT to say the POA.

    This is similar to me not voting. As a U.S. citizen, I SHOULD vote, but it is my right to decide whether or not I WANT to vote.

    Of course I get the usually "if you don't vote, you have no reason to complain about who's in office."

    And I don't! Politicians are going to do whatever they want to do, or whatever the rich or religious majority want them to do! :p

    Latre! :D
  16. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Truer words cannot be spoken.


    We are not a true democracy, we are a country ruled by Special interest groups. Screw them
  17. DARTHMOM10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    I have tried to look at this from many different perspectives. When I suggest it be taken out, I am not doing so because I hate religion. Not at all. I would just like the POA to be inclusive for everyone who is a citizen in the U.S., and in my eyes, when it says "one nation under God," it just isn't doing it.

    Very well said, Master-Jedi-Smith!!! You don't have to "hate" religion or insult someone else's religion. And as we've had stated here several times, the founding fathers may have been religious in one way or another, but they weren't the ones who invented the pledge or added the "under God" to it. Removing the pledge or "under God" from it won't hurt our country since it is not necessarily part of our national traditions ... our country will still stand proud if not with even more pride if we were to actually try to show "objectivity" and "respect" towards ALL people who live here and comprise our great nation ... instead of just "talking about it." ;)

    I dont want to just rehash the smae things that have been said by others in this thread. But my reasons are similar to theirs, I dont think the rights of those who do not believe in the Judeo Christian concept of God should be infringed upon because there are those that wish to push their beliefs on others and that their belief is the only true way.

    That's fine, but again ... NO ONE'S PUTTING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD to "speak any words" that you don't want to. You have the choice and the freedom to say, think, live, or believe any way that you want to. By insulting the believes of others, you allow your beliefs to attacked .... and you lower yourself to their standards of judgement and harassment.

    I'm sure you're better than that.

    So, you've stated your beliefs: i actually believe that there is no place for the word God in any offical staement, pledge, national anthem, legal document etc. in the United States of America. And that's great! What is your solution to the ideas that others have propossed here? Two pledges, one to satisfy both parties involved? No pledges or "voluntary" pledges? It may not be that some people don't believe in God, but that they feel that its actually against their religion to "pledge" to a flag ... Do you know what religion believes/feels that way?

    So i am not merely insulting Christians, i Am providing some of my reasoning as to why God should be stricken from the Official record.

    Of the reasons that you have stated, only a few of them pertain to actual "constitutional" things. The rest of them pertained to insulting those who state their beliefs in one way or another. Did you ever see that old tv show, "Dragnet"? Just the facts, ma'am. Just the facts." It's okay to state your opinion, but again, please try to do so without "harassing" others.

    Also, you have the "freedom" to state your beliefs if you wish. If there are people (Christians) that are stating their beliefs in public (on the streets), why don't you? Or is it easier for you to stand on the sidelines and just make fun of them and insult them? FYI: Since we live in the U.S., they have the right to state their beliefs in public places. That's "freedom." And you have the right to state your opinion ... that's your freedom. You have the same rights that they do. A church is a different arena. That, in some cases, could be considered "private property." Going into a church to state your opinions (depending upon what kind of church it is) could be considered as "trespassing."

    Darth_Guy
    Don't you think that if you were Muslim, you would be offended by a Christian belief being smack-dab in the middle of a pledge to your own country. Of course, a lot of countries in the Middle East force Islam upon their citizens, but the U.S.A. is the home of the free. Forcing religion upon others is wrong.

    A lot of the Americans were Christian, but the founding fathers wanted to keep the government from having an established religion.

    Abosolutely, 110% CORRECT!!!! :D
  18. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    "That's fine, but again ... NO ONE'S PUTTING A GUN TO YOUR HEAD to "speak any words" that you don't want to. You have the choice and the freedom to say, think, live, or believe any way that you want to. By insulting the believes of others, you allow your beliefs to attacked .... and you lower yourself to their standards of judgement and harassment. "

    First off I agree with you, no one is putting a gun to my head regarding having to say the pledge. I dont say, besides that i am no longer in school and dont have to say it. My concern is for the children who do not know any better. That is why i dont want the words in the pledge as they are pretty much the only people who say it at all. When children have to say the pledge they really do not have th emental capacity to understand what it or the phrase under god is. As far as harrassing other beliefs, i really have not been doing that, i have been stating how others beliefs infringe upon my rights as a a US citizen.

    "And that's great! What is your solution to the ideas that others have propossed here? Two pledges, one to satisfy both parties involved? No pledges or "voluntary" pledges? It may not be that some people don't believe in God, but that they feel that its actually against their religion to "pledge" to a flag ... Do you know what religion believes/feels that way? "

    Im sure you could have inferred from my posts that there should be no mention of the word god in the pledge. This is the topic, if it the topic were should we eliminate the pledge?, then i would say yes. I do not believe in pledging one's allegience to either a country or a flag. And yes i know what religion does not believe in pledging a flag. There is no need to be so condescending by asking that, you can simply state reasons behind the Jehovah's Witnesses reason behind doing so. Please stop the condescending attitude you have.


    "Also, you have the "freedom" to state your beliefs if you wish. If there are people (Christians) that are stating their beliefs in public (on the streets), why don't you? Or is it easier for you to stand on the sidelines and just make fun of them and insult them? FYI: Since we live in the U.S., they have the right to state their beliefs in public places. That's "freedom." And you have the right to state your opinion ... that's your freedom. You have the same rights that they do. A church is a different arena. That, in some cases, could be considered "private property." Going into a church to state your opinions (depending upon what kind of church it is) could be considered as "trespassing." "


    You are right I do have the freedom to state my beliefs. However I still do not think it is right for me to harass others in the street as some Christians or Jews For Jesus do for that matter. Quite simply i live by the rule live and let others live. I dont go around preaching my beliefs and harassing people on the street. that is straight up annoying. The golden rule, wich you dont need religion to realize is the way to live is the reason i do this. I dont like being annoyed, maybe you do.
  19. TIEdie7 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 1
    It's our constitutional right to believe in anything we want to! Yes!

    :TIEdie:
  20. DARTHMOM10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    sleazo -
    As far as harrassing other beliefs, i really have not been doing that, i have been stating how others beliefs infringe upon my rights as a a US citizen.

    If you are referring to the phrase "under God" in the pledge and how it should be removed ... yes you are. :) But then you went to complaining about them talking in public about their beliefs ....

    There is no need to be so condescending by asking that, you can simply state reasons behind the Jehovah's Witnesses reason behind doing so. Please stop the condescending attitude you have.

    I wasn't being condescending ... I was just asking if you were aware that there are others, outside of atheists, who also do not like the phrase "Under God", let alone the pledge itself. It was simply a question ... no need to get all upset about it.

    You are right I do have the freedom to state my beliefs. However I still do not think it is right for me to harass others in the street as some Christians or Jews For Jesus do for that matter.

    So they speak about what they believe in. They state their opinions. Listen to them or walk away ... it's literally that simple. If you don't like what others are saying, don't stand there and listen to them. And if you don't want to speak your mind, about your opinions or beliefs, then that's your choice. But don't bash others who want to state theirs. It seems to me that is what you were doing. If I'm wrong, then I am sorry.

    Quite simply i live by the rule live and let others live.

    Those Christians and Jews for Jesus that you spoke of live by talking about their beliefs. Are you sure you live by the phrase, "live and let live"? If so, then from your comments, you really aren't living by that at all. You are living by the expression, "live and let live ... unless you are a Christian or Jew for Jesus who speaks out in public about your beliefs or anyone else who stands up and speaks their minds about their spirituality whatever it may be." Am I wrong? If so, how? I'm going by your statements here which is all I have to go by.

    Live and let others live if that is what you truly believe. But if that is true, then you must tolerate those whose opinions and beliefs are different from your own ... no matter how or where or when you learn about or hear about them.

    I dont go around preaching my beliefs and harassing people on the street. that is straight up annoying.

    That is annoying for you and I'm sure several others, but some people aren't bothered by what they are saying. Also, by "harrasment" .... are they following you down the street, running and screaming after you? Call the police. But if their in a public area, they have the right to be there and say what they wish. It's a free country. Its not harassment, but annoying if anything. Talk to them and see if you can tell them your side, your opinions, your point of view ... why not give it a try? ;)

    The golden rule, wich you dont need religion to realize is the way to live is the reason i do this.

    That's the "golden rule" for you, but not for everyone else. Its different for each and every single person. And you may not need religion, but many others do. And in some cases, it can actually be beneficial in many instances, like teaching about forgiveness, peace of mind, tolerance, wisdom, etc. And even those things that I mentioned are different for someone else, outside of me. Some of the legends of various religions were sources for inspiration for generations of writers including Lucas and Tolkien ... religion useless or not necessary? I think not. :) Each religion or religious sect is different too.

    I dont like being annoyed, maybe you do.

    It depends upon the situation and whether or not its first thing in the morning and I'm trying to wakeup without a cup of coffee. :)

    We need to keep on the topic .... if you wish to continue our discussion, sleazo, it may be better for us to do so via PM's rather than take up space on this thread.

    TIEdi
  21. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Quite simply i live by the rule live and let others live.

    "Those Christians and Jews for Jesus that you spoke of live by talking about their beliefs. Are you sure you live by the phrase, "live and let live"? If so, then from your comments, you really aren't living by that at all. You are living by the expression, "live and let live ... unless you are a Christian or Jew for Jesus who speaks out in public about your beliefs or anyone else who stands up and speaks their minds about their spirituality whatever it may be." Am I wrong? If so, how? I'm going by your statements here which is all I have to go by.

    Live and let others live if that is what you truly believe. But if that is true, then you must tolerate those whose opinions and beliefs are different from your own ... no matter how or where or when you learn about or hear about them. "


    Uhm how do you get that i dont live and let live out of any of my staements, i think you are reading into what i am saying to substantiate your own preconcieved notions. Quite simply i said that they were annoying, i didnt say that I harassed them or anything else. And in my opinion, It is annoying for people to speak about their spirituality while i am on the train or trying to get to anf from work.



    I dont go around preaching my beliefs and harassing people on the street. that is straight up annoying.

    "That is annoying for you and I'm sure several others, but some people aren't bothered by what they are saying. Also, by "harrasment" .... are they following you down the street, running and screaming after you? Call the police. But if their in a public area, they have the right to be there and say what they wish. It's a free country. Its not harassment, but annoying if anything. Talk to them and see if you can tell them your side, your opinions, your point of view ... why not give it a try? "

    First off you obviously dont live in New york, because here in NYC, we dont talk to the nutjobs on the street for fear of getting stabbed or attacked. Secondly it is not a free country, that is why you need permits to hold demonstrations and such.




    So what more do you want from me, in what other way do you feel like picking a fight?
  22. DARTHMOM10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Sleazo -
    Uhm how do you get that i dont live and let live out of any of my staements, i think you are reading into what i am saying to substantiate your own preconcieved notions.

    Master-Jedi-Smith, (as I've seen) Nomi Jade, and several others have shown themselves to be somewhat objective and have tried in various ways to be respectful in their comments. Some of your posts have included the following ...

    Date Posted: 8/21 3:56pm: I really wish Christians would stop pushing their religion on everyone else.
    Date Posted: 8/22 3:29pm: By forcing me to utter the words under god in the pledge to my country. Thats how.
    Date Posted: 8/23 3:00pm: ... there are those that wish to push their beliefs on others and that their belief is the only true way. I also dont go around on the streets preaching to people that there is no god ( as there are Christians who harrass people in NYC). So i am not merely insulting Christians, i Am providing some of my reasoning as to why God should be stricken from the Official record.


    Those comments that you've made are similar to those left by Fat_Fett who was also being disrespectful towards others oppossing views. That's why I was speaking to you ... if you read my other posts, I try to address those who seem as if they are being disrespectful in some way (not just you directly). And at the same time, I leave comments (as do others) if I think someone has made a good point or made a good comment or presented a good solution to the question of the thread. No one else has stated that they have a problem with that ... and I'm not the only one who addresses one person or another here. When I first started to post on this thread I was trying to ensure that everyones opinion was heard and respected, even if not everyone agreed with them.

    Quite simply i said that they were annoying, i didnt say that I harassed them or anything else.

    I know you said that you didn't harass them. I just suggested that if you felt harassed, you should consider your options - walking away, ignoring them, talking to them about what you believe in, etc. :)

    I dont go around preaching my beliefs and harassing people on the street. that is straight up annoying.

    And again, all I said was that it was annoying for you, but for others, they like and feel comfortable about their beliefs and want to talk to others about it and perhaps find out about what others believe in as well. Socrates did the same thing when he was alive. He walked around Athens and talked to people and questioned them and their beliefs to find out what and why they thought or believed what they thought or believed in. That's how he learned ... from other people and their knowledge and experiences.

    You aren't alone in feeling that its annoying. So did many others in Athens ... and they sentenced Socrates to death. Can you tell I just got out of my Ancient Philosophy class from summer school? :)

    First off you obviously dont live in New york, because here in NYC, we dont talk to the nutjobs on the street for fear of getting stabbed or attacked.

    No ... I don't live in New York city. And I'm sure that not all of those who talk about their religious or spiritual beliefs on the street are "nut-jobs."

    Secondly it is not a free country, that is why you need permits to hold demonstrations and such.

    Well, of course you need a permit to hold a demonstration or a parade. But it IS a "free country" in that anyone, at any time, in any place, can speak out about what they believe in, think, or feel in one way or another. Regardless of what others may think or feel ... and those "others" can do the same themselves. They can also speak out. I wasn't talking about a demonstration ... just saying that you can talk to or speak out to them as well.

    So what more do you want from me, in what other way do you feel like picking a fight?

    I'm not picking a fight, trying to insult you or your beliefs, hurt your feelings, or upset you in any way. Tha
  23. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    :::peaks back in:::

    Is it okay to stop back in? :p

    I for one can vouch for DARTHMOM10.

    At first I thought we would never agree on anything. As it now, I value her opinions, and find it very refreshing how she listens and can agree with somethings I say, and can also argue against them.

    As for picking fights, she leaves that to me. :p

    Latre! :D
  24. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Darth mom, I do not feel i was being disrespectful towards anyone. I was merely describing how Christians have been disprepectful to myself as an agnostic. I have explained the same thing each time. Youve asked me questions and i have responded, i have not been disrespectful in the least. The reason i feel you are picking a fight with me is beacuse you keep repeating the same questions over and over again. you also seem to think i am just bitching and that I just sit around doing nothing. This is another assumption which can lead to fights.


    So you know my viewpoint, i am not attacking anyone else's.


    Sheesh.
  25. DARTHMOM10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    Okay, then I'll let this sleeping dog alone. But, to be fair, sleazo, some of your comments were so "general" and "open-ended" .... or so it seemed to me, that I felt that I should try to help you to understand that you do have options (regardless of whether or not you want to take them) if you don't like something someone is saying.

    Not all Christians are "annoying", but I know of the ones that you have been speaking of. For myself, I confront them and talk to them. If I disagree with what they are saying, I state my beliefs and opinions .... hey - that's fair: If I listent to them, they should listen to me as well, right? :)

    Again, I'm sorry if I upset you ... that certainly wasn't my intention, but some of your comments could've been stated a wee bit better and I think some were taken the wrong way (not just by me). Sorry for the misunderstandings.

    But try to be brave about what you believe in ... take that stand to those who would push your beliefs and feelings aside. By doing so, you won't just be doing it for yourself, but for them as well. Many people in our world, not just here in the U.S., live within a world that is compossed of things that only surround them. You should take the chance to help inlarge their area to include those, like you and others, whose feelings, beliefs, practices, lifestyles, political points of view, opinions, etc that are different from their own. :)

    Here, you seem like a very passionate and intelligent person. Do so in public as well and give those who harass and annoy you a run for their money! I would if I was there ... but then again, I do that wherever I go :D

    Master-Jedi-Smith -
    As for picking fights, she leaves that to me.
    Ahem .... well, I would preferr if you'd not fight, but rather question and discuss. However, I do notice that you really make me take a step back and "think" with some of the things that you've said here. sleazo's done the same thing as well, but in a different way than you have.

    And I think that its so totally awesome that we can (and do) here!!! I'm so glad that we all don't agree all the time. :D That would be so boring if we were all just a bunch of "yes-men" or always agreeing with each other. We'd never learn anything!!!! :( I learn a lot here ... I just wish that I could understand things faster and easier and that I could express myself better. But hopefully, that'll come in time!!! :D

    Love you guys and gals! And glad to see you back, MJSmith ... hugs to you! [face_love] [face_love]


Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.