Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?

Discussion in 'Archive: Census and Games' started by Liz Skywalker, Jun 30, 2002.

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Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?

Poll closed Mar 24, 2012.
Yes. 134 vote(s) 31.5%
No. 247 vote(s) 58.0%
It should be made optional, but it shouldn't be stricken. 16 vote(s) 3.8%
Undecided. 3 vote(s) 0.7%
Don't care either way. 26 vote(s) 6.1%
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  1. sleazo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 4
    Mom, I'm glad we have come to an understanding. I do talk to some of the people on the streets regarding religion, just not people on the subway :p

    Anyway I know that not all Christians are annoying, I have never said they were. I do like to get into philosophical discussions with people regarding many different subjects.
  2. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    "And glad to see you back, MJSmith ... hugs to you!"


    [face_blush]


    Thanks DM10! :)

    And I am always glad to "see" you too! [face_love]


    Latre! :D
  3. solojones Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2000
    star 9
    My state (Missouri) voted this year that every public school was to have it's students say the pledge once a week. But it IS optional for the students. Anyway, most of us are proud to. It's taking a stand, and I think it's great.

    -sj loves kevin spacey
  4. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Well, I haven't been saying you can't say it. I just would like it to be inclusive for everyone who lives in this country.

    Latre! :D
  5. Laura_Anu Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2002
    star 4
    The only reason (other than for profit) that people settled this country was so that they could have freedom of religion. In England, they were required to be members of the Church of England, and a lot of people didn't agree with the Church of England's teachings. That is why we are here. I think that taking "under God" out of the pledge is just as offensive to some people as leaving it in. If it offends you, you shouldn't say it. If it you like the pledge as it is, then fine, say it that way.
    On another note, half the kids in the schools don't say the pledge anyway because they're lazy, so the schools systems shouldn't even bother changing things..
  6. Jedi_Master_Anakin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 4
    Since when did people who don't believe in god, want to support his existance in the NATIONAL PLEDGE? Just a question.
  7. DARTHMOM10 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 31, 2002
    star 4
    sleazo - Please continue to talk to people about your beliefs and your opinions. By doing so, you will help them to "think outside the box" and realize that they aren't the only ones in this world with a mind and spirit. And you're not the only one whose mentioned to me not to talk to people on the subways ... it is the same in many cities around the world. The one in Paris is pretty bad too! :(

    solojones - Thanks for the info - and I'm glad that the pledge is "optional", but I just hope that, considering the days we are living in now and with patriotism almost a "must," that those students who do not say the pledge aren't frowned upon or chastised in any way. Several people have mentioned that they are "forced" to stand and say the pledge regardless of their beliefs and that's not right. If you're in school and your school is one where the pledge is "optional", come back and tell us how students who don't say the pledge are treated: fairly or looked down upon. You may also want to ask several of your fellow students how they feel about this same subject that we're on. :D

    Laura_Anu - On another note, half the kids in the schools don't say the pledge anyway because they're lazy, so the schools systems shouldn't even bother changing things..

    So then why have a pledge if no one is really saying it? Either get rid of it or make it optional so as to not offend those who don't want to say it or where they can omit the "under God" portion of it. Many don't believe the same way and to ask them to go against what they believe is wrong.

    Jedi_Master_Anakin - Since when did people who don't believe in god, want to support his existance in the NATIONAL PLEDGE? Just a question.

    Those that do not believe in God do not support His existance, including His reference in the pledge. Some people here either want two versions of it (one with God, one without), while others want to do away with the pledge entirely, and others want the pledge to remain and remain unchanged. For myself (and I think some others here), I'd like to see the pledge go away entirely. As stated earlier, many students don't really say the pledge anyway because they're tired, distracted, or may be doing other things. For others, it is offensive to their belief in no god and/or they have a problem with saying a pledge to anything or anyone outside of God. At the same time, those who do believe in God want the "under God" to remain and wish for the conituation of the pledge.

    Here, people are stating their experiences, opinons, beliefs, and reactions to the pledge, history, God, etc. We're also trying to see if there's any way we can find a way to show respect to everyone's opinion and beliefs if at all possible. :)

    Master-Jedi-Smith - I just would like it to be inclusive for everyone who lives in this country.

    I'm with you!!! :D [face_love]
  8. Leia_Solo Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 17, 2002
    star 1

    I say it should be optional. :)
  9. AdamBertocci Manager

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2002
    star 7
    I agree with "yes" on this issue.




    Rick McCallum loves you!
  10. Litesabre Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 1, 2002
    star 1
    I voted for "No". The belief in God does exist and it is not something we should be ashamed of.

    edit: grammar :)
  11. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Who said others should be ashamed of believing in a god/higher being?

    If anything, those on the religious side seem to try to make those who don't believe in one ashamed. Like we are a second class citizen with no soul, and couldn't possible know the difference between right and wrong.

    Latre! :D


    EDIT: Wasn't finished! :p
  12. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    I really don't think that if you don't believe in God that you should have to say that line! It was added to the Pledge years after it was written... it wasn't even in there origionally!

    In this country religious freedom is very important, as is not having to conform. But I am not going to refuse to use $ just because it says "in God we trust " on it... not by any means! I totally respect other peoples beliefs, I just personally decided years ago that I do not believe there is a God. I could very well be wrong, but that is just my current opinion.

    I came from an Elementary school where we said the pledge every morning and SANG a patriotic song, too. Which varried. My middle school I think we said the pledge once a week or something. Then in HS i think it was ocne a week too. I decided just to leave that part out. I am very proud to be an American, and I think the pledge is great, but since I don't belive in God, I don't feel it's right for me to say it.
  13. Starr_Squadron_three Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 12, 2002
    star 4
    I very strongly believe that "under God" should stay in the pledge!!
  14. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
  15. jangosdna Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 22, 2001
    star 3
  16. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Once again, why not?

    Latre! :D
  17. JestaFlash Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 1
    I totally respect other peoples beliefs, I just personally decided years ago that I do not believe there is a God.

    Droideka27: Saying 'there is NO God' is like saying, "There is NO gold in China." You are saying, then, that there is absolutely no gold in China; underground, above groud, floating in the air, in somebody's tooth. You are claiming absolute knowledge of that. No human being has absolute knowledge; only God does. So essentially you are saying you are God.

    Understand?
  18. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    Saying 'there is NO God' is like saying, "There is NO gold in China." You are saying, then, that there is absolutely no gold in China

    But, if you really wanted to go find out if there was gold in China, you could travel over there and look in the ground, in a store, or ask someone to open their mouth.

    Gold is something that one can see.

    God on the other hand, well, I haven't seen him in ages!

    Come to think of it, not in my 28 years and 10 months on this Earth. And I was told to really look for him the first 14 years of that mind you. :)

    But once again, as I keep pointing out in this thread, when such opinions are put forth such as yours JestaFlash, it is not addressing the topic.

    Why should I have to have "under God" in MY pledge to MY country?

    Did this all of a sudden be come the United States of God?

    Just because you believe in God, and think that it is a good thing to have in the pledge does not mean that it should be there.

    Other people in this thread have been willing to compromise, and I have been willing to go along with their suggestions.

    At least they understand that not everybody believes in a god, or feel comfortable having god in the pledge.

    Once again, those of us who don't believe in god are looked upon as second class citizens.

    Who cares what we believe in, as long as the majority of this country believes in god, by all means, please keep it in.

    I mean, I have rights, but only after those of the Christian faith. [face_plain]

    Latre! :D
  19. DarkWoman Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 31, 2002
    star 4
    Yes. Not my country, but it's ridiculous that a country that (supposedly) suppoerts freedom, has a reference to a God worshiped by a limited number of religions.

    Also: politics and religion don't mix. At least they shouldn't. [face_plain]
  20. droideka27 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 28, 2002
    star 7
    I very heartily agree with Jedi-Master-Smith

    Why are americans expected to believe it God?

    Presidents Religions

    I don't feel I should be reqired to make a statement recognizing that there is (a) God everytime I pledge my loyality to my county.

  21. UrbanJedi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 14, 1999
    star 4
    Not no, but HELL NO! Changing the Pledge of Allegiance is like changing the Star Spangled Banner as far as I'm concerned. I don't agree with changing it at all.
  22. Stridarious Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2002
    star 6
    No! I do not wnat to get into a religous debate though I would like to but...I am not willing to get banned for it...but anyway...I say No, no way!
  23. dustchick Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 2000
    star 1
    If you don't agree with changing the POA, perhaps you'd like to revert to the original version which had no reference to God.
  24. Adelaide Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2002
    star 4
    ?[face_plain] Please explain.

    btw, I picked no, but I wanted to pick optional. If God's against someone's religion they should have the option of wether or not to say two words, but I still think the people who do believe in God and do want "under God" in the pledge should still have the bit of time to say it. Even though I'm sure the majority of the class would say it because it's been done like that for so long. *doesn't think she should mention anything having to do with majority and minority in front of herself while discussing this sort of thing* :p

    ~*Daughter of a Lion*~
    *Servant of a Lamb*
  25. Master-Jedi-Smith Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 26, 2002
    star 4
    ?[face_plain] Please explain.


    Are you referring to what the original pledge was?


    If so, here it is:

    I pledge allegiance to my flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.


    No mention of god here.

    Latre! :D


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