Discussion in 'Archive: Census and Games' started by Liz Skywalker, Jun 30, 2002.
Just don't say it if you don't feel like it. I'm going to say it for the rest of my life.
I don't think we should be made to pledge allegiance.
Technically, yes it should although I would be disappointed if it were.
i screw up the words to songs i sing along with, so i think it really doesn't matter if it's left in or taken out. i also tend to recite exceptionally poorly, so reciting the pledge for me would involve skipping a few words here and there regardless.
Yea i do!
<---- Is Athiest
Anyway, how does 'under God' oppress or otherwise cause you to do something you don't want? Separation of church and state does not mean any religion, of any kind, should not be mentioned anywhere, ever, having to do with the government. How people think that is beyond me.
Anyway, how does 'under God' oppress or otherwise cause you to do something you don't want?
It Doesnt, however i dont think Americans should have to say something they do not believe in.
However its not my country (im Australian) so ill just go ahead and pick at my anthem
No, if we took out the "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance then "In God we trust" would have to be taken off all of the dollar bills aswell. Now I am Catholic and I think it the phrase "under God" should just stay in the Pledge of Allegiance.
"in God We Trust" wasn't always on money.
"The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania."
"A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was converting to the dry intaglio printing process. During this conversion, it gradually included IN GOD WE TRUST in the back design of all classes and denominations of currency."
--from the United States Treasury website.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
And here's a brief history of how "under God" got into the POA:
Sen. Homer Ferguson, Michigan Republican, sponsored a bill, and it was approved as a joint resolution June 8, 1954.
Mr. Eisenhower signed it into law on Flag Day, June 14, saying in a statement, "From this day forward, the millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty."
No - originally, the pledge lacked the 'under God', and I don't see any reason why it should contain the phrase.
I think it should be taken out, but it really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. Mostly I just like interjecting the fact that the original did not contain "under God" whenever I hear someone arguing that point.
Yes. And take it off the money, too.
The idea of God shouldn't play any role in government, let alone an essential one.
I don't like the idea that because I don't trust in a god, I'm not a real American.
No. People get way too sensitive about the smallest things anymore.
Only about 14% of the American public says to change it. You are a minority in the extreme. So sorry (okay, not really). In case no one who wants it changed realizes, our founding fathers (for the most part) were believers in God. That is part of our history regardless of what any of us thinks. To attempt to change history is to mess with our identity as a nation. I'm not saying we are all believers in God. Obviously not. But try to have a little respect.
On the money, perhaps it is more a part of history. God was put onto our money in the 1800s. The Pledge of Allegiance was created in 1892, but God was not added until 1954. The only history behind the line "under God" in the pledge is of the Red Scare.
Democracy may be about majority rule, but liberty involves the utmost respect for the rights of every minority viewpoint, so long as it doesn't cause harm to others. Honestly - who the hell are you to urge the minority (which isn't even winning this battle) to have respect for the prevailing majority viewpoint? If anybody's being disrespected, it's the minority. And if anybody's being disrespectful, it's you.
There should be no religious requirement in a state pledge; and it was only added in the 50's as propaganda against Communism, so it can't use the "traditional language of the 18th century" excuse which I'm more sympathetic towards.
I agree with that too.
Yes. This country was founded on the principles of religious freedom (this includes freedom from religion as well). That being said, there should be no reference to any specific deity in our pledge or on our currency. It really is unconstitutional to favor one religion over another, and based on the way they're worded, the phrases "In 'God' We Trust," and "One Nation Under 'God'" are almost certainly referencing the Christian god.
I think it's worth noting that the Pledge of Allegiance was originally written by a Baptist minister and Christian Socialist (on September 7, 1892), who chose not to include the line: ?one nation under ?God?? in the pledge of allegiance. That phrase was included several years later (in the mid 1900s).
Also, the first one-dollar bill was printed in 1862, and the phrase: ?In ?God? We Trust? was not included on the bill until 1955, from what I can recall.
Though I'm going to have to agree with JediMasterCheGuevara too. I don't think we should be made to pledge allegiance to anything.
Interesting debate in this thread. No time to post a long post about it, however, I will just simply state, "No". If you don't like that part of the pledge, just don't say it. That is what my friend does at least.
Don't care either way
Do you realize that it is unconstitutional to force one to say the Pledge of Allegiance? While one may sometimes feel pressured into saying it, under the law, one is never obliged.