Should the phrase "under God" be taken out of the United States Pledge of Allegiance?

If you don't want to say "Under God" than don't say it. My personal belife is that God is like the Force. So when I've sung songs that refer to God as "him" I just say "it". The Supreme Court hasn't come after me yet, and for good reason. If I want to refer to God as an "it" it's my own blasted buisness! If you don't want to say "under God" cool. If you do, go right ahead. But either way, there is no need for all this fuss.

 

No. And whether they "officially" take it out or not, I'm still saying it anyway. I suspect many other people will.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

"the Founding Fathers were all Christian."

Actually, no, not all of them were.

"No way! When our country was founded, it was founded under God."

Did you even read the other posts?


"If they take out "under God" they aren't giving us Christians freedom of religion, they're taking away that freedom."

Yes, of course, the government either has to be Christian, or it's oppressing Christians

I don't know why so many Christians have such a persecution complex.

 

I don't know why so many Christians have such a persecution complex.

most religions that have been persecuted do. But I admit not to understand how this would persecute Christians.

 

*tickles tummy and giggles*

 

"most religions that have been persecuted do."

Yeah, but Christians haven't been persecuted(except by other Christians) since Rome. Ever since then, they've dished out more persecution than they've taken.

 

The nation was actually founded under well to do white males. (Hence Founding Fathers)

Should we replace "under God" with "under rich, white males"?

Come to think about it, who still runs our country? Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea after all!


Latre!

 

Yes, of course, the government either has to be Christian, or it's oppressing Christians

The flip-side being we must remove religeon everywhere so as to not offend atheist.
Where are lines drawn? If atheist don't believe in a God anyway, why are the being so offended by what anyone else thinks?

 

I just don't understand why it's necessary, and I'd also like to thank Saint_of_Killers for explaining why it's there in the first place. I never understood that.
It seems really unnecessary to me. God isn't a generic term. What about Allah? How many people here would be offended if we said "one nation, under Allah" instead?
Believe me, I am far from an atheist. But I wish that it were taken out.
Also, the "founding fathers" also advocated slavery, didn't allow women to vote, and kicked native americans off their land. Is it "forsaking out heritage" to say that they were wrong now?

 

Well said gwaernardel.

I know a certain place in The Senate Floor that would love to hear your statements.

And for those who don't know, I found this on the CNN Website:

When President Dwight D. Eisenhower signed the act adding "under God," he said, "From this day forward, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty."

And this as well under the history of the pledge:


1954

Worried that orations used by "godless communists" sound similar to the Pledge of Allegiance, religious leaders lobby lawmakers to insert the words "under God" into the pledge. President Dwight D. Eisenhower, fearing an atomic war between the U.S. and the Soviet Union, joins the chorus to put God into the pledge. Congress does what he asks, and the revised pledge reads: "I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands, one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Source: The Associated Press and Encyclopedia Britannica Inc.

Latre!

 

Christians feel persecuted because we are. We are the only religion in the world that has missionaries who are dying daily just because of their faith.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Because you're the only religion that has missionaries. Most other religions aren't so arrogant as to try to make the rest of the world 'see the light'.

I can garuntee you if Hindus started sending missionaries to Iraq, they'd get killed just as much as the Christian ones.

 

It's not arrogance. It's love. Our missionaries are doing great things for people's lives, and they are getting nothing but persecution for it.

And even what you are doing right now is persecution of Christians. This kind of attitute is why we feel persecuted. We are.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

Yeah and Christians think everybody but them is going to hell, now who should feel persecuted?

Look, I appreciate the humanitarian work that missionaries do, but too often it's conditional. "Come to my church and listen ot my sermon and we'll gve you food". I know not all do that, and I admire the ones that don't, but too many do.

 

I don't think its because of the Christians. Actually I beleive in God, and I am very religous. If you don't beleive in him, then you don't have to. But I think we should keep it in there. Thats how it was written, thats how it should stay.

shinjo_jedi

 

Exaclty shinjo.

And Saint- we aren't persecuting anyone. It's not like we WANT people to go to Hell, or that we believe we are the one's sending them there. We didn't come up with the rules, God did. I'm sorry if other people don't agree, but must they persecute us about it?

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

The only religion that has missionaries dying daily because of their faith??
Define missionary.
Okay, maybe they don't call them missionaries in other countries, but have I been dreaming of all the tensions between Israel and the Palestinians? That's right, they're going to Hell anyway, according to Christianity, so it doesn't matter.
What about the Buddhists in Tibet who believed in non-violence so strongly that they let China take them over, with virtually no resistance? What about the Muslims and Hindus in India that tear down each others' mosques and temples every day? There are a lot of people from a lot of other religions that die every day for doing little more than trying to leave their house in the morning. Please don't presume that Christians are the only ones being persecuted.

 

shinjo_jedi, you said:

"Thats how it was written, thats how it should stay."

Did you not read my post up above?

That is not how it was written. It was made to say "under God" because religious leaders lobbied for it to be put into the pledge.

As for Christians being persecuted. I just wonder how the people called witches were feeling when burned at the stake, or how others were feeling when they were tortured during the inquisition. All for the love of God!

Poor christian missionaries.

Give me a break.

Latre!

 

Do you not understand that there have been Christian extremist groups, like the KKK, etc, who are not really living Christian lives who commit horrible acts? Just like the extremist Muslim groups from that normally peaceful religion.

-sj loves kevin spacey

 

But they still believe in their Gods as much as you do. Probably even more since they are doing these things for and in the name of their gods.

What does persecuting Christians have to do with the POA? It is just dodging the real issue.

Is the POA not meant for every American to pledge their loyalty to the country? With the words "under God" it appears to be for only those who believe in a God. And if you want to get even more technical, a christian god at that.

And those people who say "Just don't say under God when you recite it" either believe in a god, or don't care enough about the POA to be bothered by it one way or the other.

If it is taken out, you are still pledging allegiance to your country, and those who don't believe in a god feel included.

You can believe in god at church, with your family, and with your friends. That's fine. But a god should not be referenced to when one is pledging allegiance to their country, especially when not everyone believes in one.

Latre!

 

No Way! It seems complete the way it is. This is the way I learned it. If people want this changed, then why don't they go after out money, too? I think all of it has "In God We Trust" written on it. I think this whole issue is really unnecessary.

 

Why?

Latre!

 

Because you're the only religion that has missionaries. Most other religions aren't so arrogant as to try to make the rest of the world 'see the light'."

Thats right Saint of Killers. Christians are the only ones so arrogant to contribute most to helping the poor and suffering than any other religion. I know its fashionable to hate Christians...but things are not that simple.

On the topic...I dont think they should.

First, it is NOT unconstitutional when

(a) no church is involved (the general "God" does not imply any particular religion, much less any church).

(b) it is optional.

Second, I think the fact this is even being seriously considered is indicative of a much greater problem then any church/state violation.

We have become so utterly frigthened of openly/publicly committing to any religious values that we choose to inflate the church/state law to obscene proportions. In my town, a valedictorian had to alter her speech and exclude all religious references. the rationale: she was violating the church/state law. This is stupidity at its fullest! And, I think it is an excellent example of this absurd proposition.

Before we are so adamant about whether or not a particular value is forced upon society...shouldn't we at least consider whether that value is true????

 

i voted 'yes' it should. i don't usually come in here but i just saw this poll and had to vote. i'm against anything religious and won't say the pledge of allegiance in the morning at skool just becoz it says 'god' in it.

~NiKe, DaRK LaDy oF THe SiTH~

 

Psuedo, did you read my other posts? I said that I appreciate the humanitarin work that some missionaries do, as long as it's not conditional.

I agree it was stupid to make the valedictorian change her speech, assuming she wrote it herself, and not the school.

And moral values are not exclusive to those who believe in a god.