PT Should the PT have been written in a way that preserves the surprise of Luke's father?

The Darth Vader revelation is meant to be shocking, a real surprise. I get that "everyone knows" now, much like "everyone knows" Bruce Willis is dead in Sixth Sense.

But movies shouldn't allow such things to dictate their content, right? When conversing with the Emperor, I don't think Vader directly refers to Luke as "his" son, but the "son/offspring of Skywalker", which implies that even in the updated editions we're meant to be surprised when we watch Empire for the first time.

His identity could have been hidden in the PT by him having a Jedi name, like Obi Wan is really Ben, and if between Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones he assumed his Jedi name, and was one of a few Jedi, so we're not certain which one. But in Phantom he would be on the farm, and annoy his brother by "rushing off an a damn idealistic crusade".

It would have to end with Anakin being left on the lava pit, without him being Vadered. Then when he reveals himself, it would add "OMG it's the guy who caught fire!" to the "OMG Vader is Luke;s father!"

 

No.

 

Eh, I don't think it needed to.

 

I feel you have that the wrong way around. Movies shouldn't allow the obstreperous preservation of concretized surprises to dictate their content.

Star Wars is a cinematic ouroboros. It's not about springing surprises on people; it's about action-adventure and poetic musings on identity and consciousness. A yantra, even.

And you also overlook the fact that perception is multi-angled. I'll quote the maker on the matter:

"If you see them in order, it completely twists things about. A lot of the tricks of IV, V, and VI no longer exist. The real struggle of the twins to save their father becomes very apparent, whereas it didn't exist at all the first time. Now Darth Vader is a tragic character who's lost everything. He's basically a bitter old man in a suit. 'I am your father' was a real shock. Now it's a real reward. Finally, the son knows what we already know."

-- George Lucas, p. 84-85, J.W. Rinzler, "The Making Of Star Wars: Revenge Of The Sith"

 

Have a Sith be called Darth Vader in the PT but get more and more mechanized as the trilogy goes on. Then in ROTS, we see Anakin and the other Darth Vader both burnt to a crisp on Mustafar and then Palpatine saves one with the suit from the OT and then fans wonder if it is Anakin or not until the ESB reveal. Easy.

 

Jedi never used fake names. The only reason Obi-Wan used the name Ben was because the Empire knew he survived Order 66 and was still looking for him.

Keeping Anakin's identity a secret so we don't know who he is until TESB kind of defeats the purpose of the prequels.

 

You can only hide Anakin's identity as Darth Vader from people who have never seen the movies (mostly little kids), but "Luke, I am your father," is such an iconic quote now that keeping it a secret doesn't work anyway.

 

No. The PT had enough on its plate storytelling-wise as it was; including that extra hurdle would've hurt a lot more than helped.

 

I'll go one better, though I don't have the page number.

Its a really different suspense structure. Part of the fun for me was completely flipping upside down the dramatic track of the original movies. If you watch them the way it was released, IV, V, VI, I, II, III - you get one kind of movie. If you watch I through VI you get a completely different movie. One or two generations have seen it one way, and the next generations will see it in a completely different way.

It's an extremely modern, almost interactive movie making. You take blocks and move them around, and you come out with different emotional states."

--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith, pages 84 and 85.

 

Hmm, well...

It seems you found the page number.

That is, indeed, the remainder of the quotation. I left it out this time just to focus on the nub of the matter.

But if you look at Lucas' last two sentences, what he implies is something some fans have recently been noticing: that Star Wars is much more than just a "linear" story experience.

 

I think it originally sort of was. Anakin betrays the Jedi, he has a duel with Obi-Wan over a molten pit and gets knocked into a hole and vanishes. That is the last we see of him and he is presumed dead as a result. There might have to be some sort of allusion in the OT that he was made into a cyborg or though otherwise we won't know the Empire did it.

 

In the prequels, it is very important to see the evisceration of his flesh: symbolic of the removal of his humanity.

Not to mention his reconstruction and enslavement.

 

Isn't this done by simply knowing the fact that's how he got in the suit in the first place? We don't necessarily have to see it literally for that be to interpreted.

 

I think the tragic, game changing events of ROTS make for a better "twist" anyways. So rarely do you get a mid-story event that so fundamentally changes the second half. Even ESB's twist, as memorable and surprising as it was for us, really only changes tbings for one character: Luke. ROTS not only changes Anakin, but Obi-Wan, Yoda, Palpatine, and the entire galaxy.

This was a particularly memorable read for me. It's written by a reditor who was going through the saga for the first time. This is their ROTS reaction: http://www.reddit.com/r/StarWars/comments/34vpdi/just_watched_my_third_star_wars_movie_last_night/

If you already onow the twist, then ESB becomes a delightfully anxious waiting game where the viewer anticipates the moment when father meets son. This is a beautiful thing in its own way. In my mind, trying to change the story of ROTS in order to obscure the true identty of Anakin would just be a a very dangerous feat of writing gymnastics that would likely only the muddle the story, all to save something that doesn't really even need to be saved.

 

No, it shouldn't.

 

It still is to Luke last time I checked.

 

I love the comment about "interactive movie making." I'm not a person that subscribes to the so-called "machete order," but that mindset did make me think of alternative viewing orders of the saga that might yield different, interesting results. During one of my recent viewings I ultimately settled on alternating the trilogies, watching I - IV - II - V - III - VI, and found that to be a very rewarding alternate experience.

Not only did that method really bring to light a lot of the blatant parallels between the beginning, middle, and concluding outings of each trilogy, but I found that there was something really unique and powerful about jumping right from the "I am your father moment" to Anakin's descent into Vader to his ultimate redemption in that order. Its events that I've seen a million times already, but thrown into a slightly different order -- like mixed up pieces of a puzzle that slightly altered my perception and allowed me to glean a bit more information between the jumbles spaces.

I will always subscribe to chronological I through VI viewing order, but sometimes it's fun to mix things up a bit and see what else there is to discover.

 

Either way your going to be shocked if I watched the PT and had no idea what SW was about I would have freaked out when anakin killed mace and kids and would've completely lost it when obi wan tears anakin to pieces! Imagine if the ot ended with Luke going dark and killing Han.

Both trilogies will have those wow moments on first viewing

 

I can't remember exactly who said it, but I remember a quote about plot twists that has always stuck with me:

"A mediocre plot twist pulls the rug out from under the audience. A great plot twist pulls the rug out from under the characters."

What makes "I am your father" such a damn legendary scene, the reason we're still talking about it 35 years later, is that it works whether you know what's about to happen or not. The real potency in the scene comes from the bleakness of it, the near perfect framing of each shot, the line delivery, the crushing devastation contained within Luke's reaction. All of that is consistent no matter how many times you've seen the movie, no matter how much you already know about the story.

 

I don't what I like more your screen name that comment or wait I know it's your avatar! Awsome

 

No, it wasn't. Lucas had intended from the get go to show the whole shebang. He's said that for years since he first talked about the PT and especially after Vader's true identity was confirmed with ROTJ.

Well, you can read Drew McWeeny's own experiences showing the Saga to his kids for the first time, when the Blu-Ray's first came out. He used the same method that you did.

http://www.hitfix.com/blogs/motion-...cial-series-with-a-first-viewing-of-star-wars

 

No. We already knew his father's name was "Anakin."

 

Putting the prequels out would have made the surprise for first time viewers of the films aware of that, not people who had seen it before.

 

Should the PT have been written in a way that preserves the surprise of Luke's father?
Nah. The Saga is truly meant to be watched as IV- III, no matter what anyone says.



....IMO, of course....

 

To answer the OP.

No, I don't even think it would be possible because we already know who Anakin and Vader are.