Discussion Should the Sequel Trilogy Use Western or Eastern Influence for Lightsaber Combat?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Scars Unseen, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. Theo333 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2011
    star 2
    As long as they're fighting to survive than fight to entertain. I never got the feeling that people were trying to harm each other in the prequels; little to no twirling and more pragmatic actions like stabbing, distractions, cheap shots, and going for exposed limbs please.
    Last edited by Theo333, Mar 6, 2013
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  2. Ryus Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    star 4
    I dont know about you all but I've always wanted to see a lightsaber in one hand and a blaster in the other, that way the opponent has the choice of either blocking a lightsaber swing the opponent gets shot in the gut, or stopping the shot to the gut but getting their arm cut off.

    or when against an army they can block shot with the saber and return fire with a blaster pistol.

    Though its also a guilty pleasure of mine to want to see the two mentioned fighting styles facing off vs one another, could lead to a very brutal fight imho.
  3. Han Yolo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 7, 2013
    star 2
    I feel like the fights will HAVE to be more like the OT. The way I look at the Prequels is that it was as Obi Wan said in the OT "a more civilized time" Lightsaber fights had a certain "air" they were more about show and less about killing your oponent in my opinion. Dont get me wrong obviously this wasnt always the case but I feel like all of this twirling and such was more a show of skill with the force.

    In the OT lightsaber battles were about survivial, as was everything in the galaxy. They were more gritty, less gracefull. I think these new movies will follow that form.
  4. BigAl6ft6 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I loved when Obi-Wan and Anakin started throwing haymakers in ROTS. Aside from one kick move by Maul in a wide shot in Ep. 1, that was the first time I saw that, and I thought it was great. Mix in a little fisticuffs.

    Also I would believe the main character should have a more elaborate style. When old Jedi Master Luke Skywalker lights up his lightsaber, it should be like Vader at the start of the ESB fight. *thwap, smack, done* Three move minimum. Thank you, come again.
  5. DARTHSHAME Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 19, 2003
    star 4
    Agree. Ideally should be Western style like Luke's. However, I think the PT style is more exciting (although some of the jumping bordered on the ridiculous.). I think we will see more of the PT style in the film due to its excitement. This may be explained by Luke simply progressing in skill over the last 30 years or it can be said he found a treasure trove of Jedi knowledge explaining the old ways.
  6. Skaddix Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Cannot really translate actual sword fighting to lightsaber combat. For two reasons one all the mass is concentrated in the hilt and two you can always strike edge to edge.

    Still i want the fights to look like something normal humans cannot do but with less random flipping
  7. BountyHunter76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    ^ Agreed. Less random flipping. I would like to see distinctly different styles between opponents. Eastern, Western, or a mix. In my opinion the best fighters have cross trained and learned from different disciplines. I wonder what Luke has been up to over the years ???
  8. ShabbaTheHutt Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 8, 2013
    star 1
    As long as we don't get Jedi using their lightsabers like european knights and the Sith fighting style looking middle-eastern, that would be maximum propaganda overload!
  9. ForceJumpAnakin Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 24, 2006
    star 3
    They should just joust. All stabs, no twirls.
  10. Sitara Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 3
    PT style definately. Nick Gillard should return.

    However, I would like different meshes of style. Eastern, Western, Middle Eastern, Turkish (dervishes anyone?), India (Klaryapattu) etc etc.

    Also, most definitely obvious usage of the Force during duels. Flipping around should be a given. It grants a huge tactical advantage. Just look how Obi Wan used it to great effect in TPM in the final duel. Yoda would not even be able to reach his opponents without flipping and jumping. I would also like Force Speed to be used in duels.
    lbr789 likes this.
  11. Darth Claire Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2012
    star 4
  12. Kal La Kai Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 3, 2013
    I would hate to see the PT style of combat come back again. It was over-choreographed and most of the time they weren't actually fighting even though it looked like it. This video blatantly shows how poorly the scenes were choreographed:
  13. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    In TPM, when Maul first attacks Qui-Gon and Anakin there is a brief but interesting battle between the two that is a pretty good middle ground between the OT and the PT. It's a lot of direct strikes and blocks, without all the twirling and useless wasted motion in the later films. It's that direct strike style, but with energy. It might be something to look at for future films IMO. It seems that as the PT went on the fights got more and more silly.



    There should be youtube video there, I'm not sure what I did wrong

    I think I fixed it
    Last edited by Captain Tom Coughlin, Mar 9, 2013
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  14. Rawne Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2008
    star 2
    It DOES look impressive at face value. But once you actually start breaking it down it really does show how ridiculous it is.

    Basically that video is: once seen, never forgotten.

    If I had my way every lightsaber duel would be over in four moves: Slash, block, one opponent turns lightsaber off and leans through using Force speed, turns lightsaber back on killing the other combatant.

    This is why I should never direct a Star Wars film.
    Last edited by Rawne, Mar 9, 2013
  15. BarkingFrog Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 4, 2009
    star 2
    That Ryan vs Dorkman video is amazing. I'd love to see something like that in the ST. I could see it going that way too, with JJ Abrams in charge. Imagining Luke fighting in a style like Ryan (blue) makes me giddy.
    Last edited by BarkingFrog, Mar 9, 2013
  16. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    If you're saying you like the actual dueling techniques showcased here by the characters (and it sounds from the bulk of your post that indeed, you are), then sure, I could get on board with that, but as far as the cinematography? The effects used in these trailers?

    Good God, no thank you.

    As good a job of selling a video game-styled depiction of lightsaber combat as these trailers do, I have absolutely zero interest in having the traditional Star Wars, 'found-footage,' documentary-styled approach to action interrupted by a cheesy, slow-motion effect, followed by a quick jump back to real-time. Ugh.



    I've observed two different discussions going on here, too. What Luke would have learned and passed on to his students (in-universe) vs the approach that the choreographer will take. I think that when we find out who the stund co-ordinator for Episode VII will be, we may have a better idea of what to expect.

    Personally, I don't mind a bit of flash, but I'm with those who prefer that each strike and parry seem legit. Oh, and do it right (like Luke in ESB) and have the cobatants become progressively more sweaty, bruised and bloodied as they go on, please. Give me these two things and I'm sure to love it.
    Last edited by TreborSabreon, Mar 9, 2013
  17. Han Burgundy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2013
    star 3
    Documentary style=/= a moving camera. There's nothing "found footage" about that trailer. It features slick, dynamic camera movement that boosts the intensity of the action without leaving the viewer disoriented. If it had been live action, this would have been shot using a steadicam, dolly, or crane. AKA things not typically used for documentaries or found footage films, which typically are done with handheld cameras, producing that "sloppy" quality I believe you are referring to.

    I agree on the slo-mo, however. Slow mo and Star Wars don't mix. The ESB cave scene being the only exception. But no Zack Snyder stuff.

    EDIT: After re-reading your post, I realize that by documentary style, you were referring to the camera work in the original six films. In that, I believe you are gravely mistaken. With the exception of a small handful of moments in ANH and ROTJ, the Star Wars films have never been filmed in a found footage, cinema verite style. The camera typically moves very little in the duel scenes, especially in ESB and ANH. The only instance I can think of is a brief (but powerful) shot in ROTJ where Luke overpowers Vader, and the camera quickly looks down as Vader falls on his knees.

    If your referring to the prequels, you're even more off base. With the exception of some panning or the occasional dolly shot, the camera in the prequel duels is alaways very still, giving us a almost picture esque view of the action.

    Indeed, one thing I've always wanted in a Star Wars film is more camera movement. Not the shaky, documentary kind, but the dynamic, Andrew Lesnie, Wally Pfitser kind.
    Last edited by starmin76, Mar 9, 2013
  18. T-R- Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2003
    star 4
    I thought is was stated that the OT saber fights were samurai style, not western.
  19. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    Well, to be honest, I've not a background in movie-making, but I have heard the visual style of the SW saga described as 'found-footage / documentary' on more than one occasion and from more than one source. I'm certainly willing to cede the point that I may have been used an erroneous descriptor, but if you do feel strongly about it, you may want to search out some of the others here at TFN and engage them in a more lively debate than you'll get from me on the topic. :)

    Either way, you do take my point, don't you? That I'd prefer the cinematic style of Episodes I-VI to carry over into the ST. That much, at least, should be plain by what I offered and the 'Old Republic' trailer style of 'camera-work' and visual effects is simply not in line with that.
    Last edited by TreborSabreon, Mar 9, 2013
  20. akrunner Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    maybe its a force kick lol. like a force push but with the foot instead
  21. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    That type of thing isn't exclusive to the PT's choreography, though. Luke has an arguably even more blatant 'Force-kick" during the sail barge battle in Jedi.

    I'm not a student of filmmaking, but I would think this particular issue has less to do with choreography than with the camera angle / blocking the shot? Either way, I admit it does come off as rather silly once you've noticed it. :)

    As far as your quote "most of the time they weren't actually fighting even though it looked like it," I'm afraid I don't understand where you're coming from. None of the actors in any of the films were ever 'actually fighting,' of course, so I'm not sure what you are getting at here?
  22. Poor Greedo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2012
    star 2
    Things will blow up. People will die. Arndt writes it Abrahms shoots it and we all get to nerd out HARD. Don't think Abrahms isn't as excited we are. That being said, he's gonna deliver epic swordplay that will carry weight BEYOND all the flash and choreography. Combat will most likely strike a chord in between the two trilogies. Would you rather a thousand completely rendered battles? Or a handful of face melting fights. Good writing could do more with less.
  23. Sitara Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2001
    star 3
    Dooku used a force kick in ROTS. Looked a bit silly TBH.
  24. Skaddix Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2012
    star 4
    Well It depends I mean if we are going to have Forms again then each one should probably be based on a specific style. So Form 1 would be fencing, Form 2 is Kendo, etc. Now a true master like Luke should be using a mixed style. Less skilled fighters can have their move sets dictated by a specific real world style or combination thereof.

    But no gratuitous flipping or random spinning. Also in real fights (ie good guy to bad guys) I expect to see lots of use of the environment around them. Sparring type fights should look more formal.
    Last edited by Skaddix, Mar 10, 2013
  25. Darthchrontis Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2013
    I have no problem with PT fighting styles, but then I'm not looking gaffs all the time. I just prefer that we get a lot of duels instead around 3 minutes of duels the OT gave us. Anyone that didnt fangasm when maul faced obi and qui despite what they thought of the plot in PM is a liar.