Should the US have a national health service?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Darkside_Spirit, Nov 14, 2001.

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  1. Darkside_Spirit Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 9, 2001
    star 3
    Discuss... An incredible amount of expense is currently spent on the complicated system of private hospitals, health insurance and emergency provision. Furthermore, healthcare has become a wealth thing - a poor person with no insurance is up a certain four-letter creek without a paddle if they have a nasty accident, whereas the rich get the best that medication has to offer.

    In education, there are public schools funded out of tax money so that everyone gets a decent education. Rich peoples' rights to take advantage of their money and give their children a headstart in life because of who their parents are are still protected. Surely the same can (and should) be done with healthcare?

    Many people will probably disagree with me and some may hopefully share my point of view. Whichever direction you come from, please state your opinion: should an NHS be established in America?
  2. Darth_Deus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 4
    Take a look at Canada's healthcare system.

    I have heard stories about people having to wait months for an MRI. Heck, in the U.S., we could probably get one this afternoon.

    The wrestler Val Venis is a Canadian who needed knee surgery. He didn't feel like waiting in Canada's healthcare system for several months, so he forked out his own money in the U.S. for the surgery.
  3. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    Yes, but Val is a wrestler. He has money. A lot of it. What about the rest of us? To me, it's obvious. The socialist state grants us free health care. People don't have to die because they can't afford surgery. Poor people don't get a lower standard of health care than rich people. Everyone is equal. Can't you see what capitalism is doing to your health system? It's become corrupt. Patients are seen as people to milk money from. They arn't seen as humans. You're charged for everything, right down to the tissues! Sure, in many provinces the system is underfunded, causing long waiting lists, but at least you don't have to spend thousands of dollars for treatment. The problem is not the government subsidized policy, it's the lack of funding, because Canada isn't doing very well financially, because of the unfortunate economic war Bush is waging against us. The American health care system is an example of capitalism taken too far.
  4. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Raise taxes so we don't have to pay for doctors and dentists we don't visit anyway? ;) Nah...
  5. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    Try saying that when you're older, you need health care, you don't have the money, so you're turned away at the hospital. That kind of treatment is appaling. Patients are people, not cattle!
  6. Darth_Deus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 4
    Admiral_Thrawn,

    And you're basing this prejudiced statement on our healthcare system on what?? Socialist Canadian propoganda?

    The U.S. Healthcare system is fine. Is it perfect? No. Show me a system that is.

    You act like your healthcare doesn't cost you anything. You pay for healthcare the same way we do. The money is taken out of our paychecks the same way it is taken out of yours. However, sometimes, companies will provide you with healthcare at no cost to you (in this country, not Canada, buddy) The only difference is where the money goes. Our money goes to private companies, your money goes to a government to mismanage it.

    And what about FREEDOM of choice. I can CHOOSE to go to the doctor whenever I want for whatever is bothering me. How long are your waiting lists? You need to be approved to get certain treatments? Please....you call this freedom?

  7. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    There is no approval necessary here. We are free.

    EDIT: And FYI, I have nothing but positive things to say to Finance Minister Paul Martin. Mismanagement here is very minimal. Canada is paying down its debt at an alarming rate, increasing defence funding, fighting greedy educators, and maintaining a satisfactory level of public health care. Tell me, where's the mismanagement?
  8. Darth_Deus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 4
    But you need to wait several months for some surgeries...

    And no, it isn't free.

    The money to pay for your healthcare system comes out of your paychecks. If you think it is free, you've been brainwashed.
  9. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    Of course I don't think it's free. I am a taxpayer, you know. By free I meant we have freedom.

    I'm not going to go into the exact stats, but Canadians pay only slightly higher taxes than Americans. Cost is evenly distributed amongst the population. If you don't need it, fine. If you do, it's there for you.

    The tax paid by each Canadian on health care each month is only $14. I have no reluctance to pay that.

    EDIT: Also, your several month thing is a bit innaccurate. Health care is a provincial thing. Some provinces have better care than others. BC is suffering the most from this economic war, and also from September 11. Our care is the worst, because our economy is at 35,000 feet with no engines and fire in the cockpit. Alberta, for example, an oilrich province, has care that rivals even the best American care.
  10. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    LMFAO, Americans slandering our system LOL
  11. Darth_Deus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 4
    And you get what you pay for...

    :)

    How many Americans do you see running to Canada for their healthcare system??

    How many Canadians come down here for ours??


    I rest my case.
  12. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    How many Canadians come down here for ours??

    PPOR.

    My grandparents recently had to sell their house in Florida because they no longer could go down there in the winter. Do you want to know why? Their health is deteriorating, and they couldn't risk getting sick, because they could not afford treatment. They would have to die on the step of the hospital because they wouldn't be able to come up with the money, because of the currency exchange.
  13. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    I`ve never had to wait a second if anything happened to me actually..all the canadians i know just look at the states and laugh....you accuse thrawn of being brainwashed....you`re still taught that your country won the vietnam war
  14. Darth_Deus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 4
    And your taxes are not much higher than ours because we actually have a military.

    Canada doesn't spend money on a military because they know the neighbors have big enough guns to protect the whole hemisphere. Canada knows that if anyone gave them any crap that the guy with the big muscles to the south would come to their aid.
  15. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    That`s why the american military is ranked like 18th best in the world or something...canada is 5th...just because the us is rich, dosen`t mean it has better traiined soldiers
  16. Darth_Deus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 4
    Ranked by whom??

    Where are you getting this crap?

    How many ships does your Navy have?

    You couldn't overtake Pirates of the Caribbean at Disney Land.

    Your military is a joke compared to the rest of the world.

    Yeah, it was Canada who made the difference in WWII. If it wasn't for them, Japan and Germany would have never surrendered. Those Mounties were just too intimidating.
  17. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    YOU FENCE SITTERS ONLY GOT INVOLVED IN WW2 BECAUSE OF PEARL HARBOUR!!!! TSK, TSK, i see we have a real history buff on our hands here
  18. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    Unfortunately, you are correct. The Canadian government feels it can cut costs by depriving us of desparately needed funds, because we just rely on you for defence. I feel that policy is wrong, but there's nothing I can do about it. Our politicians do not see defense as a priority. They didn't at least, last year. This year they did give us more funding, and after September 11 they promised even more, but it's not enough. Canada has a reputation. We contributed more than any other country to the First World War, excluding war materials. We earned a reputation for an extreme fighting spirit and excellent grasp of tactics. What the British failed to do, we did. When the British commanders commanded us, we were slaughtered. When we commanded ourselves, we turned the tide of war. We bled through both world from beginning to end. We didn't wait until we were attacked late in the war to get involved. We didn't hide behind an isolationism foreign policy. We did our duty to mankind in the face of evil, and we are not respected for it. We in the Canadian Forces, marching in the footsteps of our great heroic comrades who came before, are ridiculed for our relative inability to wage war. That is not our fault. It is the fault of the government that refuses to fund us.
  19. Darth_Deus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 4
    Ian,

    We may have waited until the war directly affected us, but we still came in and cleaned house.

    Britain was about to be over-run be the Germans. The British troops were almost surrounded by the Germans when the U.S. came in and saved them.

    And I don't even need to tell you how little resistance France put up. Hell, two years ago some guys in my Fraternity walked into Paris and said they were there to take over, and they surrenderd. Of course, my friends, being the gentlemen they are, told them they were only kidding.
  20. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    And they only got involved in World War I after the Germans starting sinking their civilian ships in 1917. They call themselves the most powerful nation on Earth, why didn't they help their European allies when they needed it most? Where was the US while France, Belgium, Holland, Poland, and others were falling? Where were they when the United Kingdom was under attack? Sitting at home under their islationist "America first" foreign policy, that's what.
  21. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    France...you are correct, and yes the U.S. did help out..my point is, that if you are going to insult...please get your facts straight...hell, i was born in Jacksonville Fla...i like the U.S.A., just don`t put down other countries before you know what it`s all about... let`s calm down and have a nice chat shall we?
  22. Darth_Deus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 11, 2000
    star 4
    Yes, the U.S. used to be more isolationsits than we are now. We didn't get involved with things that didn't directly affect us. But then again...at that time, who did? The only reason the French helped the U.S. in the Revolutionary war is because they hated Britian. They were just looking for any excuse to fight Britian.


    Here is my problem with the rest of the world...

    When the U.S. steps in overseas to help a bad situation, we get crap for it from other countries. When we DON'T step in to help bad situations, we get crap for it.
  23. Admiral_Thrawn60 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2000
    star 6
    Britain was surrounded and close to surrendering? Once more, I must ask you to PPOR.

    The US came into the war several years after the Battle of Britain. Operation: Sea Lion had been postponed indefinately, and Britain was no longer threatened. The borders of the Third Reich in the west had been stable for years. The fighting was in North Africa and the Soviet Union. Britain was a staging ground for D-Day.
  24. AJA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 1998
    star 4
    I could see the government providing more health care insurance here in the U.S., but turning the entire medical system into a federal beaurocracy would be disaster, IMO- both for the quality of medical care and the economy. This is why Hillary Clinton's scheme back in the early 90s was rejected overwhelmingly, including by her fellow Democrats.
  25. Ian_Ball Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2001
    star 4
    The U.S. gets crap for getting involved because soldiers tend to 'misbehave' themsleves, and they tend to get involved only for their own gain

    the U.S. gets crap for not getting involved because other countries are weak, and feel they need the states to be involved in every little thing, which is stupid.
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