Discussion Should there be a gay character in Episode VII Pt 2

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Esg, Nov 17, 2012.

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  1. Esg Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    How does adding people who like other people of the same gender break your suspension of disbelief? I mean they even have frigging Ferrets and Ponies if you go by the Ewoks TV Movies
    anakinfansince1983 likes this.
  2. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    We are intelligent people who should be capable of having a civilized conversation about this, I don't know why there are persistent comments about it needing to be locked. It should only be locked if people persist on acting like a bunch of middle-schoolers and using the "f*g" word. So far the majority of posts are not like that; it does not need to be locked because of a small minority.

    No, sexual orientation is not a "big plot point," but why does it need to be? Feminism is not a "big plot point" either, however, I remember 1977 and Leia was one of the first of her kind not to behave like the Disney Princess locked in the tower. She got bashed for it too.

    And ROTFLMAO at the idea that "inclusion of a gay character" is the same as "inclusion of a graphic sex scene." [face_rofl] I've had to tell a few of my friends to stop having graphic sex with their partners so that we could watch our kids swim, take pictures of our kids in their Halloween costumes, talk about Star Wars, play Trivial Pursuit, eat dinner, etc. etc. But damn, those gay people would only stop having graphic sex long enough to watch Will and Grace reruns, buy track lighting and try to force me to become attracted to women.

    ETA: Good points, @Esg . As someone who just watched Lincoln last night, I am very thankful that the "majority" does not always have the power when it comes to mass discrimination. The 13th Amendment debate re-enactment made me cringe. And maybe I am just too optimistic about the state of America but I have a very difficult time believing that "the majority" cares that much about sexual orientation anyway, I think it's just an outspoken minority that still has an issue with it.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Nov 18, 2012
    Esg likes this.
  3. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    That is really the main point I think. I don't see that there is an important reason to change this; it just isn't a part of Star Wars to explore or elude to this subject, I say maintain the spirit of what it is.
    StarWarsFan91 likes this.
  4. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2004
    star 2
    No.

    There was no need to make a new thread about this, especially after the first one was locked.

    This is tantamount to trolling.
  5. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Why is it that those who do not want to see a gay character on screen, are the ones demanding that the discussion be shut down?

    I'm noticing a correlation here and I'm just curious. Why is it such a problem to discuss it?
    Arawn_Fenn likes this.
  6. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    OK, but strong female characters are VERY MUCH a part of what has and always will make up Star Wars (a hallmark of the story). That is different than going in another direction with a new plot point.
  7. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Unless the story takes an existing character and makes him or her gay, which I do think would look shoehorned, I don't think inclusion of a gay character is "going in another direction with a new plot point." I'm not talking about a story in which Luke comes out of the closet or even a story about Obi-Wan or Qui-Gon being gay, as they were both straight in the EU. But as Star Wars has many, many characters in each movie, I'm not sure why it would be such a stretch if one of those characters ended up being gay.
  8. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    I think those things are overstating the case (it isn't the 50's anymore), it is more about whether the new story would add to quality and be really in the spirit of SW.

    I am going to guess that the writer (a two time acadamy award winner) is NOT going to include a gay character because he doesn't think it will be important for the quality of the story. I think George and Kathleen are pretty liberal, I don't think they would hold out gay characters for hate. I don't know what Disney would make of it, but from what I understand, they pretty much stay out of the way creatively.
  9. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    Was the inclusion of Jack Harkness "Going in another direction with a new plot point" about bisexuality, in Doctor Who?
    Esg likes this.
  10. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Gay people are very important to the worlds society. If they featured at 3 gay or bi characters in these new next generation movies _d buy 5 tickets just for me & support Disneys effort.
  11. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    That is minimizing the statement that you would be making with a gay character though, in the same way you make a statement with a strong female characters. There is very little alluding to anyone's partner/wife/girlfriend at all, so why would you allude to that? Think about all of the Star Wars characters, there are only a few that you know anything about in that way. The only time it is brought up is when it is important for the story really. They would only bring in a gay character if it was important for the story.

    By going in another direction, I meant something that WASNT a part of SW, unlike the strong female character was. Strong female characters ARE an integral part of SW, gay characters are not.
    Last edited by Lee_, Nov 18, 2012
  12. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    I see the Star Wars bullies are showing their head in this topic? Now they hate the gay community?? What a shame
  13. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    Bullies, trying to control what can & canot be talked about on the forum. Closet control freaks, pay them no mind.
  14. Tim Battershell Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 3, 2012
    star 4
    What about Human/Twi'lek, Human/Bothan and/or Twi'lek/Bothan romances?
  15. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 2, 2004
    star 2
    This.
  16. Iron_lord Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 6
    There's a "Diversity" thread in the Literature forum- which discusses the more general question "Should LFL increase diversity"- that's not constantly being asked to be locked.

    This thread is simply an Episode VII version of that, focussed on a particular subset.
    anakinfansince1983 and Esg like this.
  17. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    We saw Leia, Padme and Mon Mothma very differently then--I didn't see any of them as Lucas making a statement about a strong female character being important. IOW, I didn't see "strong female characters are important to Star Wars." (Unless I'm misunderstanding?) Leia, Padme and Mon Mothma all happened to be strong and female (OK, aside from Padme losing her strength in ROTS, but let's not go there).

    BTW, I appreciate your disagreeing with me in such a civil manner, your posts are proof in point of how we can discuss this and disagree on this without blowing up the thread to the point where it needs to be locked.
  18. Danzo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2012
    star 1
    As I said in the previous thread, I see no way in which adding more diversity is any sort of issue for the series. As someone else posted in the previous thread, simply having a character reference their same-sex partner in the context of the scene is demonstrating that the Star Wars Universe is more diverse. It was done well in the EU and I can't see why it wouldn't work just as well in the film.

    In regards to the posts saying Disney might not be on board with this, as has already been said they extend full benefits to both straight and same-sex couples and they also have "Gay Day's" at their park as well as allowing same-sex weddings in their park. Add to this that recently the Marvel comics featured a same-sex marriage between a gay superhero and his male partner which is also owned by Disney and I really can't see why they would have any issue with this.
  19. Trebor Sabreon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 15, 2010
    star 4
    Well, do me a favor and try not to toss me in with your correlation, please. Speaking personally, I've no problem discussing it, but I'm simply detaching myself from the emotion inherent in a discussion such as this and saying that it has been dicussed - for many days now (so most everybody has surely had their opportunity to be heard), and apparently a forum moderator found reason enough to shut it down. Forum-wise, I see no reason to immediately begin a "Part 2" to any topic when this first topic had plenty of responses and was subsequently shut down. It shows no respect for the decision of the mods. Even if I were advocating for gays in SW, I would still feel this way about a second go at the topic, is all.
    lord_eidolon likes this.
  20. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    Yeah, and does anyone else remember the Southern Baptists boycotting Disney in the late 1990s because they extended benefits to same-sex partners?

    I had a VHS of The Lion King in Spanish that I showed my Spanish classes and a couple of kids had to abstain because their parents were part of the boycott.

    As far as the last thread, I'm not privy to the mods' decisions, but as I recall, there was a lot of tossing around of Bible verses and not as much discussion of how a gay character could, or could not, fit into a Star Wars movie. My point is that a discussion on this topic does not have to follow the deterioration of the last thread.
    Last edited by anakinfansince1983, Nov 18, 2012
  21. sashlon1138 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2012
    Considering that I want to be able to take my kids to see this movie...

    No
  22. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    They should have stayed if for no other reason than to enjoy the fact that the gay character was the villain.
    Last edited by Arawn_Fenn, Nov 18, 2012
  23. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    My kids are aware that some people have a Mom and a Dad, some people have two Moms, some people have two Dads, and some people are raised with only a Mom or a Dad. They call my best friend from high school and his (sadly, now late) partner "Uncle Rich" and "Uncle John".

    I'm not sure why a same-sex character would keep anyone from taking their kids to see a movie, it would never stop me, but obviously that's your call. I just can't see that as a reason to ban a same-sex character from a movie.
  24. Danzo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2012
    star 1
    So you're fine with taking your children to see a film that might feature torture (ESB) or torture of a droid (ROTJ) or someone having their limbs sliced off (ANH, ESB, AOTC, ROTS), people dying (All of the previous films) but this is too much?
    Last edited by Danzo, Nov 18, 2012
    Esg and anakinfansince1983 like this.
  25. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    I don't see why torture of a droid should bother anyone.
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