Speculation Should there be gay characters in the ST?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Jedi Mountain, Nov 12, 2012.

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  1. BigAl6ft6 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 5
    I so wanna see that movie now! "Dexter from Dexter's Diner, free at last!" Or maybe Dexter is dating that robot that serves Jawa Juice.
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  2. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

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    Feb 2, 2004
    star 3
    I can't believe we're even talking about this.
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  3. Jedi Mountain Jedi Youngling

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    Nov 12, 2012
    I really didn't want to go there.....
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  4. darksideyesplease Force Ghost

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    Feb 12, 2005
    star 4
    Movies like Star Wars just don't delve into sexuality. Sure there is relationships but it's not over done.

    If you look at fan fiction a lot of people have tried to sexualize Star Wars and Harry Potter in their own writings even though those two franchises really have none of it. Outside one Harry Potter book where everyone is making out when everyone turns 16.

    I think that's why Twilight got so popular. It actually had that "ship" edge to it that other fantasy films and books don't have. Some people... or should I say a lot of people want it to be there in other fandoms so they create it through art and fan fiction but none of its canon.
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  5. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    Really quick:

    Gay Characters =/= Gay Sex Scenes.

    Let's just get that much established.
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Nov 12, 2012
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  6. darthgator1217 Force Ghost

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    Apr 25, 2005
    star 3
  7. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

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    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    More's the pity.
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  8. TaradosGon Manager Emeritus

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    Feb 28, 2003
    star 4
    Without getting into stereotyping what a gay person looks/acts like, I don't see how you would be able to tell. Was Palpatine gay? Who knows? He was just a kindly old man in the public eye and an evil power hungry sorcerer in secret, but we never see any kind of romantic/lustful side of his life. Romantic/physical relationships aren't really a big focus of the films in any large number. We have the straight relationship between Anakin and Padme which was essential to explain Luke (without making it convoluted by making Padme or Anakin secretly homosexual). And the only other relationship is really Han and Leia. The Jedi are forbidden from attachments and had to try to suppress those kinds of feelings, no matter their orientation. Who's to say that Dooku or Qui-Gon or Mace were not homosexual? Again given their roles in the films there just was nothing that would indicate one way or another whether they were gay.

    I don't see the point of throwing an openly gay character into the films just because the story would have to go out of its way to show beyond a shadow of a doubt that the character is gay and I'm not sure it would add anything beyond "hey, look we added a gay character." It would be like taking Palpatine and deciding to show that he was gay. Right now we don't have anything to show one way or another. To show it would involve writing dialogue that makes it clear, like if he starts mentioning a husband or a boyfriend, or if we see him kiss another male character, etc. And that just would seem forced for something that really isn't important to the character.

    For a franchise like Star Trek it would seem more relevant in that a big part of Star Trek is showing an optimistic future in which social issues have been worked out and showing an openly gay character would add very much to that.
  9. Jedi Mountain Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I find it very thoughtful and interesting what you wrote. I would like to know, however, when you say "but none of its canon" does that mean that homosexuality does not exist in the OT or ST universe or it's just better left out in favor for the more generic relationships found in the Disney universe. See what I mean? Disney does generic love very well, and has done, successfully, for 70 years. The OT also did that generic love thing very well. Maybe that's why Lucas and Disney came to their agreement (in part). I still find it interesting that Michael Arndt wrote the treatment and will be the screenwriter of Ep. VII. The true direction of this trilogy's tone and more subtle direction may well then lie in the the director that will be chosen.
  10. adraco4 Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    If I remember correctly, weren't there a pair of gay Mandolorians in one of the EU books. Personally, I'd have no problem if it did, and no problem if it didn't, but i doubt Disney or Lucasfilm will do it.
    Contessa likes this.
  11. Arawn_Fenn Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 2, 2004
    star 7
    The time has come for a gay droid character.

    Oh, wait.
  12. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    That's the thing, though. It's not really necessary to the plot for the gayness. SW isn't going that much into social issues.
  13. JediKnightOB1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 5
    Hahaha, I see what you did there. ;)
  14. darksideyesplease Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2005
    star 4

    I just mean the relationships or "ships" for short as we say in the fan fiction community, a lot of it is just probably not how GL intended.

    Obviously Anakin and Padme made love to make the babies but it was placed between movies and the most you see is them laying in bed together asleep as husband and wife.

    In tons of fan fiction, obviously authors go into XXX explicit detail about what else goes on in the bedroom.

    That's what I meant isn't canon. Maybe they did like to get really freaky, maybe they didn't. If people want to think about that, that is their business. But the overtones are certainly not in any of the movies to date.

    I just don't know where it fits in Star Wars to subtly hint two men or two women would be in love with one another. Obviously we will see where these stories go but I don't think it will be about "ships".

    I think in books you can kind of do it. After all, Dumbledore subtly says some things in the last Harry Potter but you can't make heads or tails of it, until JK came out and said, yes he's homosexual. Then I had to go back and read some quotes and I'm like, yeah I guess she did drop some hints.

    But as a poster said previously, there is a lot of sex and sexual overtones in everything now. Not that being homosexual is any more sexual than being heterosexual but I think that might be perception. Like, it's here, we are pointing this out just to make a point. I think some people can take it that way.

    Of course I'm just saying this with broad strokes, doesn't mean I feel one way or another, I think I'm just speaking from a broad point of view that I feel a lot of people would have.
    Last edited by darksideyesplease, Nov 12, 2012
  15. Pfluegermeister Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    My question is: you started this thread, and you seem to be actively wanting this, so what do you get from having it happen? I mean you personally. How does having gay characters shown, or even implied, in Star Wars, or having the franchise be "more embraceable for gay audiences" (as if it wasn't doing that before), do anything to enrich the filmgoing experience for you, specifically, as an audience member? Would it help tell the story better for you? Would it make the moral or philosophical lessons any clearer for you? Would it make the action scenes more exciting, or the comedy scenes any funnier, for you? What does having gay characters achieve for you personally that even warrants the asking of this question?

    This is not an attack; I'm seriously just trying to get at the motivations behind this question - then we can have a better chance at answering it for you.
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  16. Norminator Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 2, 2009
    star 1
    Almost everyone in the SW galaxy is asexual, so I don't see a point in shoehorning a gay person in there. Sexuality is such a non-issue outside of the Anakin/Padme parts, and even that seems extremely forced.
  17. Jedi Mountain Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    Thank you for explaining "ships" and the fan fiction community to me. It makes more sense now. So I think what you are saying is that you feel no "ships" = generic stories, and that is what we will get. I will leave for others to decide if that is a good thing or not for the future of the Star Wars franchise.
  18. thesevegetables Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 11, 2012
    star 4
    I don't think that he's saying stories without ships are generic. TPM had no ships. That was not generic.
    I think darksideyes is saying that fans like ships because they can do things with them.
  19. JediKnightOB1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 5
    Haven't any of you been paying attention. RotJ had plenty of gay action, and I'm not talking Ewoks. I'm talking about the Rancor Keeper and his "buddy" who hug each other after the Rancor tasted death. And what about the two Imperial Guards who "go away" once Luke and Vader show up. And I'm not talking about the two guards, I'm talking about Vader and Uncle Palpy and their "special bond." ;) Seriously, I don't care if Gungans are going at it or if the Mon Calamari are having a go. I don't want to see anything sexual, it doesn't belong in this movie.
  20. Mia Mesharad Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 4
    Yes there were, and they were each excellent characters. The author responsible for their introduction also handled them in a normal, everyday fashion without the stereotypical need to remind everyone that they were gay every few pages.

    Personally, I'm not gay, but as an observer toward the situation, that would be like asking "What benefit does it have if the character was black?" These people exist in the real world. In a richly expansive universe such as Star Wars, that has all these classically attractive Sci Fi elements from amazing ships to interesting aliens, epic battles, a myriad of cultures...wouldn't it be nice to see something that you connect to? Where does someone like you fit in Star Wars, or do you even get to exist at all? The original movies were overwhelmingly white, and became progressively more diverse as time went on. What purpose did casting black actors serve? Or an Indian actress? They exist. They deserve to be represented. Escapism, that thing everyone likes to talk about, shouldn't be selective. Shouldn't gay people be allowed an accepting universe to escape to, as well?

    Better question: How would having gay characters hurt the movies?
  21. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    Sure, why not? We've seen at least two heteronormative relationships in the Saga, why not show a gay relationship for balance? It's part of the spectrum of human behavior which is, in part, what Star Wars explores. I vote "yes".

    And since Star Wars screenwriting is a democracy, I fully expect the majority decision of this thread parlayed into plot points in the films. :p
  22. Merlin_Ambrosius69 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 5
    And BTW, this.
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  23. lord_eidolon Force Ghost

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    Feb 2, 2004
    star 3
  24. Jedi Mountain Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I am just interested in whether YOU, the audience (obviously because you are in these forums), want to see gay (implied or not) characters in the ST or not. It's a simple question. My personal motivations are my own. I hope you respect that. However, the creators and future participants in this project may like to know what the collision of Star Wars and the Disney fanbases think about such issues that may or may not be explored. I would kindly ask you to answer every one of the questions you so thoughtfully asked me. ALL of your questions are relevant. Can you tell me how you would personally answer them? You are right about being "actively" interested, but my opinions are irrelevant. It's yours that matters.
  25. JediKnightOB1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2003
    star 5
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