Speculation Should there be gay characters in the ST?

Discussion in 'Star Wars: Episode VII and Beyond (Archive)' started by Jedi Mountain, Nov 12, 2012.

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  1. Lee_ Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Lucas probably was joking. I think it won't be an issue anyway, I can't see the one night stand being made a subject in a Star Wars movie.

    Neither can I see a gay character. That would be too much like the movie was making a statement about sexuality, which would be ridiculous. This is Star Wars, make it a good Star Wars movie and stay off the soap box.
  2. Padme501st Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 4, 2006
    star 1
    Sums up how I feel about it perfectly
    Last edited by Padme501st, Nov 14, 2012
  3. Bib Fartuna Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 4
    Perhaps a gay character in the sequel trilogy could cross sowrds with his archnemesis, so to speak.
    ThatWanFromStewjon likes this.
  4. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    I'm sure that isn't true.

    There is somebody out there for everybody.

    ;)
  5. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    There is a very funny article by Charlie Brooker on a this kind of topic at guardian.co.uk.

    In it he mentions a campaign to stop a Star Wars The Old Republic from allowing users to "customize" their characters sexuality.

    This is the first I heard of that.

    I assume the campaign was ignored, but I'm curious as the point of characters in games having a sexual orientation at all.

    I've never played an MMORPG. Is the Old Republic that detailed that isn't just puzzles, combat and getting through levels, but the game character now has a "personal life"?

    Is there sex in the game?
  6. Moog Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 1
    I'm a bit scared by some of the attitudes on here... a lot scared... it's 2012, for crying out loud!

    1. Why do people assume that a gay relationship means an overtly sexual on-screen portrayal?
    2. This isn't a political issue, it's a human issue.

    I could go on but I'm not going to. The answer to the thread's original question is a simple rhetorical question: WHY NOT?
    cwustudent, darth fluffy and Contessa like this.
  7. FRAGWAGON Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 3, 2012
    star 4
    Write my answer down as No, Never.
  8. kataja Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2007
    star 4
    Why not? I'm fine with it. Still, I think sex has always been underplayed in SW and while it can give me gray hairs sometimes, I think it's ok in the films, the young audience taken into consideration. So sexual preferences could be hinted at but there souldn't be a fuss about it. .
  9. Danzo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2012
    star 1

    In the Old Republic you can romance companion characters which features various dialogue for the different companions and have sex with them which is presented as a fade to black whilst your characters walk off the screen. You can also do this with various NPC's scattered across the different levelling areas. At the moment however you can only do it with companions and NPC's who aren't the same gender. Bioware said before launch that after launch they would be adding in the option for same-gender romance, and then said in March that it would be coming this year....however we're a month away from the end of the year with no sign of it being implemented and no update from Bioware about it.
  10. ThatWanFromStewjon Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 8, 2012
    star 4
    I see.

    I have to ask then - what is the point of that?

    Why bring sex into the game at all?

    I mean, I don't know why sex would be in a computer game in the first place, but seems even less pointless if it happens of screen.
  11. StarWarsFan91 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 14, 2008
    star 4
    Frak no

    I don't want the ST to change the typical star wars formula. Besides star wars isn't set on earth, but in completely different galaxy, we don't need to put the controversial issues we have here, into there.
    Last edited by StarWarsFan91, Nov 14, 2012
  12. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    This question ignores the point of film-making.

    How about just making a great SW film?? That should be the goal. Not pushing the gay agenda or gay affirmative action. The movie should deliver a message that falls within the context of the story if the writer so chooses. You don't take a political agenda and then make a film to push it. That's what documentaries are for. And I'm sure there are lots of pro-gay documentaries out there and many more being made.
    Julius Vernon likes this.
  13. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 2012
    star 3
    Oh yeah. As we all know the one thing Star Wars has never, EVER done at any point is political allegory. And you definitely can't have a gay character in fiction without it being a tolerance documentary.

    Feh.

    All it would take is to switch around a bunch of code lines and get a couple of slackjawed interns to slightly rewrite all the romance dialogue. Like how we ended up with Juhani in KOTOR except intentional.

    I mean, I'd just do it in a random patch and not even make a stink about it. Put it in the game and let the fanbase burn itself down in outrage on it's own.
    Last edited by Landostrip, Nov 14, 2012
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  14. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    As I said, if the writers choose to put a message within the context of the story, that is their prerogative. Go for it. But sitting in a room and saying "we need gay Jedi" and then drafting a script to accommodate that is just pushing a political agenda and using a movie as a vehicle to promote it.

    I presume we also need transgender, post-op and transexual jedi as well? Right?
  15. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    To all the people saying "no" in here, I'd like to hear some more answers to my earlier question - if the script to ESB remained the same, but Lando had been a woman, would the character's flirting with Leia have been a problem for you? Why or why not?
    Last edited by CooperTFN, Nov 14, 2012
  16. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    Why are you trying to make the Black guy a woman?
  17. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    I think for me it would have seemed a little odd. I get some people may thin I am wrong for feeling that way, but in our world today, and especially back when ESB came out, that would have been placed in there for a catering to an audience group without really saying anything about the characters or the story. With the way the seen is it tells me that Lando is more over the top than Han in this quality. It instills in me a need to be wary of him from the get go, and for good reason as the movie would show later on. If it was a woman I would be left thinking, "They did it because they felt the need to". Again this is just my personal opinion. I do not hate homosexuals. I have a sister who is gay that I love dearly and talk to on a regular basis. It would just seem out of place to me.
  18. Green_Destiny_Sword Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 20, 2001
    star 4
    Of all the people to "make into a woman" we're talking about character played by Billie Dee Williams,one of the smoothest brothers of all time??? How could Lando not be a man? C'mon, it's Billie Dee!
  19. TychoCorde Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 3, 2012
    star 1
    This may cause me a lot of flack for saying it but I doubt it would make much difference since everyone else can stereotype and make inappropriate comments, but I don't think it would have made a difference if it were a lady Lando flirting with Leia. The sci-fi culture is somewhat biased when it comes to this.

    and in reference to an earlier comment you made about LGBT people on boards not wanting to speak out I totally agree, I thought these boards were a place to escape into the hobby that I love for the purpose of getting away from all the discussion of rights and acceptance. I don't need acceptance in the SW Universe because it's a non issue when I am reading or enjoying the banter that goes along with it, but when you come across a thread that has personal interest to you, you can't help but read...... now I wish I didn't.
  20. Bowen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 6, 1999
    star 4
    No thank you. Nothing against gay people, but I just don't really see the need to put something in that further divides people when these movies are honestly about universal mythology and bringing people together under common themes. This is the wrong franchise for people to be pushing their political or social agendas, I think.
  21. CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus

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    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1999
    star 6
    Why are you avoiding the question?
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  22. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    I find it rather interesting that people on both sides keep beginning with "I will probably get some hating over this" or some version thereof. What is even more interesting is this has yet to happen on the thread, but people still keep starting with it. Maybe people need to stop expecting the other side to be nasty over this issue? Sorry for the rabbit trail, it just really jumped out to me a minute ago.
  23. Pfluegermeister Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    OK, I'll bite.

    First, I'll just take the answer head-on: no, it would not be a problem for me, since the story beats would largely remain intact and the integrity of the film itself could not be compromised by such a relatively small kind of change. The thing is, I'm not sure the script would remain the same if there had been a gender switch; it would in all likelihood would have to be slightly retailored to suit the specific kind of character you're describing. Not dramatically, if we go by your premise, but a little. So, what kind of character are we describing?

    Well, to start with, let's begin with the premise that the name Lando wouldn't necessarily sound as good to the ear for a female character. For the sake of discussion, we'll just switch the vowels and call her Londa Calrissian, if that's all right. In keeping with your idea, it's a difference that makes no difference in the overall film, save that it becomes something appropriate for this character.

    So what's "Londa" like as a character? Well, if we're gonna keep as much of the character-type as we can from Lando, she would have been someone Han knew from back in the day, experienced with flying and maintaining a starship like the Falcon, someone Han and Chewbacca could conceivably pal around with and yet not have a relationship with, seeing as that's not her thing - it would be accurate to say that she would have the backstory of, say, Salla Zend, with a few changes because Salla was attracted to Han and this one won't be. The dialogue regarding how Han and "Londa" go way back would have to be altered to suit this particular character: how does Han know her, and how did she and Han have a falling out? The audience doesn't have to know this, but the writers might have to; perhaps what Han pulled in this alternate script is that he made off with a woman "Londa" was eyeing (which does certainly sound like something Han would do), but of course it doesn't have to be spelled out - just drop a hint in the dialogue and we can infer the rest.

    And what would "Londa" look like? To keep it simple (and to support your interest in diversity), let's say that, like Lando, she would be played by an actress of color (and I don't know about you, but I think Pam Grier would have been perfect for something like this back in the day; but that's just me). Like Lando, she would have to be a sharp dresser and a bit of a clothes-horse, so her costume would be tailored, upper-class, a bit of a status symbol; but what would you envision her wearing? Is it still a tunic with pants and boots and a cape, only redesigned for a woman's figure? Or is it, say, a beautiful dress instead, or robes of state? And does she decorate herself? A male Lando never went in for jewelry, but would a female version? Put simply: OK, she's a lesbian, but what kind? Without wanting to offend anyone (and my sincere apologies if I do so, even unwittingly), is "Londa" a so-called "lipstick lesbian," more feminine-looking and decorated, or is she more butch and plainly-adorned? Doesn't matter to me, but whatever you choose, it says something to the audience, even subconsciously, about her character. Whatever it is, her "look" has to show several things at a glance: that she can believably be the Baroness-Administrator of Cloud City; that she knows her way around a gambling table, a cockpit, and a garage; that she is somewhat vain and self-absorbed, but not excessively so; that she seems tough enough to handle a gun and to believably defy Darth Vader when the time comes, but not in the same way as Leia is because we don't want two identical characters running around Bespin. They did handle that job for a male character; they should have no problems doing for a female character as well, but those are the design parameters, and the relatively small backstory problems, that your premise now needs to solve - but I believe it could work as proposed.

    By the way, if "Londa" does indeed make two passes at Leia in this version the way Lando did, would this introduce tension into the Han-Leia relationship in the same way? Would the audience feel that there is any chance that Leia could be caught by "Londa's" charms? Probably not, since Leia's evidenced no interest in females before, so no one would become concerned that she might drift away from Han for her. OK, so in the absence of tension, what makes any "old smoothie" attempt viable in this scenario? Well, my own idea about Han stealing some woman in the past might be one way to keep that - "Londa" wants to either give Han some static about it or just outright steal Leia from Han, then it becomes a game of "payback" played between Han and "Londa," and it becomes a funny character interaction rather than a thorn in the romance subplot; that kind of thing would work for the character and keep the others in the dynamic, Han and Leia, true to their characters as well.

    And just for a goof: maybe instead of hitting on Leia, she is hinted to have a relationship with a female Lobot-character? Simple. Easy. No fuss, no muss. Just a thought.

    So, as you see, on principle, your idea could work, and probably would - but it would require a certain amount of rethinking on a few scenes; nothing major, but something that would make the character as described fit better into the story, rather than just have a woman say Billy Dee's lines exactly as they were back then. So what would you suggest in addressing these minor concerns?
  24. CoolyFett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 3, 2003
    star 4
    There should totally be gay characters in these new next generation movie. Gay = progress & star wars definitely needs more gay characters. This idea has my full support.
    cwustudent and Contessa like this.
  25. Pfluegermeister Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 30, 2003
    star 4
    You also supported using AC/DC and Metallica music in the new trilogy over John Williams, so I'm not too sure just how seriously to take your endorsement. :p
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