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FF:WA Should we have a WA Admin? (Moderator)

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by Master_Kaustin, Feb 1, 2003.

?

Should we have a WA Admin? (Moderator)

Poll closed Feb 6, 2003.
Yes 12 vote(s) 85.7%
No 2 vote(s) 14.3%
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    MisFitToy: WAFF is not an autonomous forum, I'm afraid. There are higher powers. Just because the people here want something to happen doesn't mean it will. Feel free to contact Shara about this idea, however, because until you get your own RSA, she's in charge. And with all due respect, you haven't been here long enough to know how much distrust others have of people here.


    DS: First of all, this is a Star Wars forum. I used a Star Wars quote. I would have thought it was appropriate. Onto the rest of the post...

    The main problem I see then is that these boards are not set up for anywhere near the right amount of people. It seems to be set up for a few hundred people, not a hundred thousand.

    For Oceania, perhaps. I'm in full support of a second RSA for Oceania, but I don't believe each individual chapter needs one. Two would be sufficient to cover the population we have here.

    Basically all moderators should only have the right to moderate where they have the jurisdiction. And as they don't have it now, why not create more mods and have them limited to thier own area. If they feel the need to moderate out of thier area obviously thay are unfit for the position......and should therefore be replaced.

    It's not within the ability of the administrators here to change the code to allow moderators to only moderate specific forums, as far as I know. As for mods feeling the need to moderate outside their area...I wouldn't say they're unfit for the position, but they would be "exceeding their mandate". Hopefully this wouldn't be an issue, however.

    Lets face it, only an idiot would vote in someone who is cool. I am far from cool but I have had people say they would want me to do the role, because I am open, honest, I say my mind if it is relevant, and above all else they respect my opinion. Personally I don't think I would take the role because I think many of the people in power here, don't belong there and I wish no association between myself and them.

    You have the backing of your forum? Good for you, maybe you'll be the next CR. The values you mentioned are all good, but you also need to be able to make unbiased and quick decisions, and not pander to everyone but do the right thing for the forum.

    And no matter what you say about "the GSAs have the final say because they are experienced board-wide as to who will be the best moderator", it is not true. You can not tell a persons true capabilities through an internet persona. To get a position of "power" as you put it, you essentially have to kiss ass to the GSA's.

    Here you show your relative inexperience outside of FF Oceania. GSAs don't make these decisions lightly...they watch a user they believe would be a good RSA for a period of time, ensuring that they have the qualities required of a good moderator. The person must prove themselves to be fair and unbiased in decisions to even be considered for RSA.

    Shara_82 has been proven to have personal problems with certain members and also in my opinion not do her job when it has been required. I gave her more than enough evidence to ban a person who was beyond a nuisance, according to the Terms Of Service, a list of at least 5 bannable offences by a certain person, with the proof to back it up, but I was willing to let it all go with an apology. I was not even granted that satisfaction. I believe she is unfit for the position based on her actions. But what is the point of challenging her. She gets to put forward her replies in private to the GSA's on the moderator boards where she can say what she likes unchallenged.

    I don't suppose you have any evidence of this. And since you don't have access to the Old Folk's Home, you probably don't know exactly what she says to the GSAs there.

    On that subject of the moderator boards, I propose that these be made public, not for posting in, but to monitor actions.

    Maybe not a bad idea, it's been brought up before.

    It has also been proven in the past that mods use these forums to do things that would get o
  2. MisFitToy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2003
    star 3
    Once more before i go to bed,


    "if the concern is that this person would then go about modding all over the jc, then does that not show a preemptory distrust in that person that they would not just mod in wa?
    and where are you from anyway? as far as i can see it's the people in the wa forum who want a local administrator. and the largest, in fact only, voice against it is from an interstater.
    the votes been done, it's obvious what we here in the west want, why can't it be done?

    distrust of western australians aside of course? "

    feel free to answer me this time hawk.




  3. Saintheart Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2000
    star 6
    Okay, I'm relatively new here despite the earlier registration date, and I've been following the debate with interest and without commenting. I stand by my belief that a local mod is needed, but seeing as the reasons have been covered in posts above I won't repeat myself. One exchange that I *do* want to ask about was this, though:

    On that subject of the moderator boards, I propose that these be made public, not for posting in, but to monitor actions.

    Maybe not a bad idea, it's been brought up before.


    ...it seems to me making the moderator boards public is a step in transparency in the entire process. And you can't have a true democracy unless you have some transparency in the process. There *appears* to be some transparency at the lowest levels, that being the tradition of posting to a poll thread to avoid false results arising. Isn't the transparency of the mod boards entirely consistent with such a policy? Was there some reason why the idea was knocked on the head?

    That is getting off the real issue, which is whether WA should have a local mod. I raise it only in passing, if anyone's inclined to answer. Otherwise I look forward to this debate continuing.
  4. Darth_Soup Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2001
    star 3
    HawkNC, IN reply to your comments....

    For Oceania, perhaps. I'm in full support of a second RSA for Oceania, but I don't believe each individual chapter needs one. Two would be sufficient to cover the population we have here.

    Then how about we have them "cover the population and not have them based 4000km away.

    It's not within the ability of the administrators here to change the code to allow moderators to only moderate specific forums, as far as I know. As for mods feeling the need to moderate outside their area...I wouldn't say they're unfit for the position, but they would be "exceeding their mandate". Hopefully this wouldn't be an issue, however.

    I never said change the code. I said restrict them. If they break the restrictions they shouldn't be allowed the position. If they can't follow rules why should they be able to enforce them.

    You have the backing of your forum? Good for you, maybe you'll be the next CR. The values you mentioned are all good, but you also need to be able to make unbiased and quick decisions, and not pander to everyone but do the right thing for the forum.

    Who cares, I just said I don't want the position, however I will still lobby for change.

    Here you show your relative inexperience outside of FF Oceania. GSAs don't make these decisions lightly...they watch a user they believe would be a good RSA for a period of time, ensuring that they have the qualities required of a good moderator. The person must prove themselves to be fair and unbiased in decisions to even be considered for RSA.

    Here you show your arrogance by assuming I am a FF Oceania only person. Just because I don't post elsewhere does not mean I don't visit and read. Also you are showing complete ignorance by believing what someone wants to show online is actually thier character. If I wanted to follow like the sheep some people are and play by the rules and suck up I could, however I act like I am in real life. The internet is far from a truthful representation of what people really are, as far as you know I am a 76 year old retired lesbian who likes pretending to be a 23 year old male Media Student in her spare time.

    And in response to the "do you have proof" comments, of course I do, I wouldn't have said them if I didn't. I had lots of proof posted as links in my signature for quite a while but as no-one took any notice I removed them, however the proof still remains safely locked away on my hard drive.

    I don't see why I have to justify myself to you, however if TF.N requests it, they shall have it.

    Now I am off to bed, I shall reply to anything else tomorrow.....

    DS



  5. Master_Kaustin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 17, 2002
    star 3
    Howdy all, Ive enjoyed reading all the posts.. but Just one question HawkNC could you possibly tell me who you are? coz I have no idea.. and there are prolly some other people as well.. Anyways I think we should wait and see what Shara has to say.. Anyways Peeps.. You all have fun now...

  6. Shadow_of_Evil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2001
    star 6
    look i'll say it straight:
    i personally [and im sure some will agree] that Shara is NOT doing a good job moderating our boards... clear and simple.. i do not mean offence to anyone in any way but i dont like the idea of having all the Australian mods located in Sydney cause this somewhat prevents them froming actaully knowing us.

    WE NEED A LOCAL MOD!!!! and i refuse to give this up
  7. Stinky_jawa Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 4
    Firstly, that is a very broad statement SOE..

    IMO Shara is doing a bang up job atm.. Every time something has needed to be done around here, its been done, and quickly too.. More times than most ppl know.. file name changes for banner references, contact list changes, editing posts, editing thread titles and locking threads...

    There hasnt been a need for much more than that recently...

    I can understand your opinion of that she isn't local, but to say she isn't doing her job well is just wrong imo..
    Any RSA has a large number of boards to cover, so not getting into the exact details of all the forums is understandable.. If a WA mod was made, they too would probably have to help out inter-state etc and would probably not be as 'with it' in our local group anymore..

    2ndly: Hawk: Who are you? Some of your points are intriguing (if thats the right word for it), but just dropping into our region without an introduction makes ppl less inclined to agree with your POV... (as you may have figured out)


    3rdly: In the end ANY final judgement on a mod/admin position will be made by the appropriate authorities.. That's it.. All we can do is bring it to their attention that we feel 'this' way about it.. 'this' being whatever result this thread brings.. if any..

    Even then, another Admin/mod position might not be created.. so I wouldn't hold your breath..

    Forthly: Sleeeeeeeeeep.. (Wouldnt be suprised if I woke up and my post didnt make any sense..)
  8. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    Wow...

    All right, I'm not sure where to start with this thread, so I'll just list points as I come to them.

    About a local mod...we can't give CRs mod powers, as there is no way to limit it to one forum. So unfortunately I can't give you a WA moderator - it isn't possible, I'm afraid. If we had the capacity we'd assign the CRs as mods to one forum, but since we don't...well, I can't, I'm afraid.

    In regards to a second Oceania RSA. Yes, there have been discussions about that, and to be frankly it's something I'll be pushing for in time. I'm not going to say a day, a week, a month, simply because I want to make sure we get the right person. I want quality, not speed. So while I've already started (long before I read this thread) requesting another RSA for Oceania, it's not something that's going to happen right away.

    Will they be from WA? That I can't answer right now. I don't know. But the thing is, no matter who I get, it sounds like people will have problems with it, since they're not from here. But unfortunately you might have to accept that perhaps the best person for the job might be from another state.

    Stinky_jawa...thanks, dude. I do my best. :)

    Darth_Soup, we both know the people you are referring to. And we both know that I did not make the final decision on them alone. The GSAs involved knew the full story, and they made their decision. If you believe that that should be revisited, PM me with why, it's quite simple. Believe me with this if you will, but I have no grudges against either of these people - there's no point, it won't achieve anything.
  9. monkey_abbot Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 14, 2002
    star 3
    argg!

    so many long posts!

    tooo long....
  10. Tarryn_Whiteheart Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2003
    star 1
    Hmm, well, at the start of the discussion, I voted that we should have a local Moderator, but after reading the posts, I'm not sure now.
    What, after all, is a Moderator's job? To Scan and review posts for harmful content, and ensure that there is a reasonably safe venue to post our thoughts in, by setting the wheels in motion to discipline / remove those that are not living up to the terms of Service.

    Why do we need a WA Moderator to achieve that? If anything, there is more danger in having a local Moderator than having one that is a touch removed from the day to day lives of those posting here, as there is a risk of Cliques forming around the Moderator, because x number of people go out for a beer (or whatever) with them on the weekend. It's the old 'Familiarity breeds contempt' discussion, that questions whether a local mod would have impartiality in their dealings with the local people.
    Now, I don't know of the history that has been brought up here, but my feeling now is that Moderators are going to make decisions that SOME folk are going to disagree with, good or bad, and as we're trying to form a strong community of enthusiasts in this hobby, having a local Mod runs the risk of having a schism forming between the members, and the community disintegrating.

    Just my 2 cents.
  11. Darth_Soup Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 15, 2001
    star 3
    Shara, there is not point to argue to any of this anymore. You have made it clearly obvious whatever we say is not going to be taken seriously as we are all backwater hicks from a far away place and can't be trusted with that kind of power. We will run around banning people for the sheer fun of it and try to take down your precious boards.

    I just said that you have got personal problems with people on the boards. I didn't say that that was the reason for you being a bad mod, I was presenting it as proof that no-one can be entirely objective. A lot of people are willing to testify to what they saw and heard at various times to prove that you have problems with them, just don't fib about it. I really don't care, but by trying to bring them back into the arguement you have proven that you are not objective. Don't assume that everything has something to do with them, get over it, that is in the past.

    However you managed to prove another point for me, thank you very much, I appreciate it.

    You say, "The GSAs involved knew the full story, and they made their decision."

    I assume you told the GSA's the "whole" story, because they sure never got to tell thier side. Proof that we need to see what goes on behind closed doors, in the private moderator forums. None of us have any idea of what you told them, how you embelished the truth or ommitted a few details here and there to make the story work for you. Being able to give GSA's the info you want probobly seems fair to you, but it sure isn't to anyone else. It is a major misuse of power.

    Thats it for me, I can see our opinions don't count for squat, so I shall crawl back under my rock until next time you balls it up.

    DS
  12. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    Your opinions do count, Soup. At least to me. But nothing I say will really convince you of that, will it? I have no problem with you or anyone else on this board, despite what you seem to think. I'm not the demon you seem to think I am.

    And to be honest, I'd like to think that you'd be objective as to whether you have a problem with me, too, but things in this thread have made me wonder. If you want to have a problem with how I do things, then fine, do that. Do what other people have done with they've wondered about something I've done - PM me, open up a dialogue and see if things an be worked out. I'm here all day, and I'm willing to listen. But don't make it personal. Because I'm actually beginning to think that perhaps it's you who has a grudge against me, and not the other way around.

    But you don't want to seem to try that talking to me about it. I know I have never sent away anyone who's ever wanted to talk to me about anything. You just seem to want to complain about the fact that I'm doing everything wrong.

    You say we need a mod to look after things in here because they're getting out of hand, and yet when something is taken care of to ensure it sticks to the TOS, you complain that it's actually because said mod has a problem with it (or you). You can't fight for one set of rules to be enforced while ignoring the ones you don't like, it doesn't work like that.

    Soup, it isn't an RSA's job to read each and every post in each and every forum, to make sure it's family friendly. It is however their job to clean up everything against the TOS that they are alerted to. If you see a thread going off topic, don't sit there and stew about it - PM me and I'll take a look.

    Instead of complaining that everything's wrong, why not PM me and give me some constructive critism on how to do everything right?
  13. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    Alright, it was getting late last night, I probably should have introduced myself a little better. I'm from Victoria, but I lurk around all the Oceania forums. I know there's been trouble here in the past, but I still maintain that WA does not need its own private moderator. Every state would then want one, and there's simply no need for it.

    Tarryn is correct, there is no need for the RSA to be located in WA. This is the Internet, an RSA can do their job no matter where in the world they are. They don't need to have met all the people in a specific region to be able to do their job.

    DS, it's quite obvious that you have some history with Shara. I don't know all of it, so I'm going to stay out of the details. But I don't know anyone who would consider people from WA to be "backwater hicks", and I'm sure that if any of you prove yourselves to be worthy of moderatorship, then you just might get it.

    Once again, I apologise for barging in on this discussion without any form of introduction. I was giving my views on something I had been discussing recently, and it soon turned into defending a friend, which in itself was off-topic.
  14. Reactor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2003
    star 1
    My two cents-

    I'm a long time forum user, and you guys REALLY don't need a moderator. This place is heaven compared to the forum I practically live at. It's unmodderated (or as close to) and it's about as crazy as you could want. We've survived some six or so years on there without moderation. Have a look, if you dare ;)

    www.the-chosen.com/forum/

    I asked before why you guys needed one, and no one answered. Unless you have a really good reason, forget about it. As long as you can ban the odd insane person why happens to wander by (after giving them a fair warning) you don't need moderation, specific to WA or otherwise.

    (note: this post can't be deleted because there's no moderator, SUCKERS!!!!!!!11) :)
  15. Shara_82 Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 10, 2001
    star 5
    Um...yeah, no mod. Please don't call the people of this forum suckers, especially since (as you said yourself), everyone here is pretty well behaved.
  16. Reactor Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2003
    star 1
    LOL... oh, I can't believe you... it was a joke! I don't seriously think people on here are suckers.
  17. FaLLeN-AnGeL Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 3, 2001
    star 4
    Reactor:
    (note: this post can't be deleted because there's no moderator, SUCKERS!!!!!!!11)


    Umm... That's not true, the post could be edited and/or deleted, but there is nothing wrong with it that is worthy of editing and/or deleting.

    A lot of posts have been deleted in the past. We do have the moderators. We just don't have the local one, which is what the discussion is about.

    I don't know about having a mod that can only moderate the state they are from, but there are an awful lot from Sydney. Maybe instead of having the majority of mods from Sydney, there should be a balanced amount or people from each state (this goes for the rest of the boards as well, although I don't know what their modding situation is like). This would solve a lot of the arguments that keep coming up about local mods. Each state could have a mod, but we still have the one RSA (or 2, if that decision is made).

    I admit I have little to no knowledge of the Moderator situations on the boards, the above is just a suggestion, I have no idea if it is valid or not...

    *wanders off to reply in threads where she actually knows what she's talking about...* [face_laugh]

    EDIT 1: Trying to make the above make more sense.
    EDIT 2: Heh, missed a bracket. :)
  18. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    The fact that most mods live in Sydney is kind of irrelevant...with the exception of Shara, they were all chosen to be mods by people in the USA, who couldn't give a flying fruit-bat what city of Australia they live in. ;)
  19. MisFitToy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2003
    star 3
    could we possibly have a list of australian admins and their locations?

    edit: "The fact that most mods live in Sydney is kind of irrelevant"

    That was the WHOLE FRELLING point of this thread i thought.

    so you're not from wa? was one of the no votes from you? what do you care anyway?

    it seems to me you're gunning for one of these mod positions yourself given your description of how they are chosen.
  20. HawkNC Former RSA: Oceania

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 2001
    star 6
    Most Aussie mods are JC mods, and have no jurisdiction over Aussie FF territory, so it is actually irrelevant.
  21. MisFitToy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2003
    star 3
    in YOUR humble opinion.

    it seems that the people of this state want to know, so why is a victorian in here saying it doesn't matter?

    can we please see a list of australian mods and their locations AND jobs/positions on the boards?

    and for shara, why aren't the mod boards available for public viewing anyway?
  22. Rogue_Product Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 12, 2002
    star 4
    Hawk isn't speaking from a "Victorian" standpoint, rather a long-time user one... You guys need to consider why you would ask for a Mod and whether his/her powers would really affect what goes on here. Like Hawk, I lurk most of the Oceania boards and WAFF seems to run quite smoothly. As has been previously stated, if you need mod assistance, get one from anywhere, they mostly have the same powers (ie, funky buttons) and have the ability to use them within reason without overstepping Shara. Whilst it is true that she can't be everywhere at once, users must take some personal responsibility of what happens. This is how the community works (quite effectively might I add) and any idiocy can be ironed out by ANY mod. Your own mod is a bit of an extravagance is it not?
  23. Protege-of-Thrawn Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 14, 2001
    star 6
    It seems some confusion is present, MisFitToy.

    FanForce is a seperate entity to the JC Boards in both an Administrative sense, and in the sense of it's intent.

    I am a JC Moderator for the Role Playing Forum. Yet, I have absolutely NO jurisdiction here on the FanForce Boards.

    Why? Because if I tried to be anything but a regular joe, Shara would poke my eye out with a flamming brand. ;)
    Furthermore, it is "none of my business".

    Yes, many Eastern Seaboard Aussies are JC Mods. That is totally irrelevant to this topic. JC Mods CAN'T moderate on FanForce boards, so they shouldn't be considered when you proclaim "all the Mods are in the east, we need some for the West!"

    Being an Internet Board, geographic considerations aren't really a criteria for promotion, so that in itself defeats the arguement that you need a local Mod.

    Furthermore, you don't NEED a local Mod in that any Moderator for the JC who comes from WA, would be kriffing useless to you on these boards as he would have no jurisdiction.

    If what your asking for is another RSA besides Shara, then fair enough. But that RSA shouldn't be "just for WA". Shara represents all of Oceania, as would any secondary RSA.

    The comment "all the Mods live in Sydney and don't give a damn about WA" is patently false.

    FanForce Oceania has one Mod. That Mod is your RSA, Shara_82. She is the only person who is needed to police all the Oceania forums, and she does a GREAT job of stopping flames, trolls, redundant threads or divisive threads from cropping up.

    She may soon have another RSA to help out. All well and good. But why would it matter WHERE that person comes from?

    Next time your clicking through the links to find WAFF, stop for a moment and ponder what the difference is between clicking on "VictoriaFF" or "New South WalesFF" or "Western Australia FF".

    None. Hence, geographic proximity is not a concern.
  24. Shadow_of_Evil Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 2001
    star 6
    well i still think we need a mod that at least does a good job here.... i know of several times when Shara has banned people for things that were NOT in violation of the forum rules,,, but even when given proof of another user's activites [wich DID violate these rules] she did nothing about it..... so we need a mod that treats everyone with the same respect and dosn't allow personal conflicts to get in the way..... i know the people on the WA forum well enough to know somthing needs to be done
  25. MisFitToy Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 5, 2003
    star 3
    the reason i felt it might interest people of this forum to know how many aussie mods there are and if they are all in sydney is what has been nrought up before by tarryn, about forming a "clique"
    if you have all your mods in sydney, FF roleplaying, film forum, eu or natalies stalker forums ( :p ) attending meets andd whatever else, then you have a clique already of people who attend ff meets, but can post in forums seperate and invisible to the rest of those who attend, so the argument that a clique would form is then redundant. i'll leave it to DS or who was actually here at the time to talk about when some mods took a dislike to members in this state that used to live in sydney, but my thinking is that if there was someone over here who also had a ban/edit button, then the situations that came about could have been handled by being objective and getting rid of anyone involved in the flame wars, not just those on one side.
    from what i can gather, there are users who can get away with almost anything if their post has enough smilies in it, and those who get hounded for the smallest most insignificant thing.

    the votes there, people in this forum would like for an assistant RSA to come from the west, and the only dissent is from interstate. could this effort at least not be considered on a trial basis?

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