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Lit Should we just stop referring to it as the EU?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by sith_rising, Aug 16, 2014.

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  1. sith_rising

    sith_rising Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2004
    Since Disney is approaching all media (comics, TV shows, novels, games) as a single, uniform canon, should we even refer to new releases as Expanded Universe? Technically, it's all just Star Wars now.

    At least we won't have to deal with "EU is not canon" or "Clone Wars is not canon" or "Only Force Unleashed and Shadows of the Empire are canon" posts anymore.
     
  2. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I'm with you as far as new material is concerned, but many people here are stubbornly persistent in their use of "NEU".
     
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  3. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    LOL. Good luck with that.

    The only way anyone is going to come around is when they realize that the only "real story" is the parts that I like.

    Of course there is always "Star Wars for you people who read", but that's a bit long.
     
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  4. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    You're not naive enough to actually believe this?

    Yes, we will. We still are, it's not going to magically stop because of an announcement.
     
    Zorrixor, Jedi Ben, JackG and 3 others like this.
  5. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yes, it's not EU. That's pretty clear as a matter of policy.

    However, it's nice to have a term to refer to "things that are not the movies" -- hence NEU.
     
  6. sith_rising

    sith_rising Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 7, 2004
    I can see it's going to be a rough year for the die-hard old-school EU fans.
     
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  7. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    The way I see it, there's not really any reason to do so anymore. That we're used to thinking that way reveals the truth that some part of us always understood that the non-movie stuff never really counted in the same way the movies did. I'm still cynical enough to believe that a movie will inevitably mess up a book someday, but for the time being I'm content to take them at face value and assume it all counts equally rather than try to mentally compartmentalize everything based solely on format.
     
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  8. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    How does it reveal anything? If we thought that the EU counted as much as the movies, we'd be crazy delusional fanboys/fangirls.

    More than we are already, I mean
     
  9. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    You clearly didn't spend a lot of time in the old EVII forums.
     
  10. Valin__Kenobi

    Valin__Kenobi Author: Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Praji star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Mar 30, 2004
    I've been using the abbreviation NU ... New Universe. It's more streamlined than NEU, parallel to the two-letter LU/Legends Universe, and it avoids the dreaded adjective "Expanded".
     
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  11. Jeff_Ferguson

    Jeff_Ferguson Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    May 15, 2006
    This. We needn't kid ourselves. There will still be the movies, and then everything else. I vote for calling everything else the "OJ." It stands for "Other junk."
     
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  12. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    A) we are.
    B) allow me to direct your attention to every single time in the last three months someone has said "but they said it was canon last time!"
     
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  13. Kablob

    Kablob Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2014
    But it wasn't G-canon, it was C-canon and T-canon and S-canon and probably Q-canon for all I know.
     
  14. GrandAdmiralJello

    GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin ❉ Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque star 10 Staff Member Administrator

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2000
    Yes, and they were. None of those people were under the illusion that they were the same as the films though. That's precisely WHY everyone got up in arms about things like TCW, because they knew Lucas could erase/contradict the EU at a whim and the EU had to just take it.

    Like, you've been in the fandom long enough. You remember when EU was just apocryphal, period. The only continuity the EU had was with itself, and that was mostly a publishing rule. It wasn't until the canon tiers came out that we could say that EU was canon, and even then it was definitionally inferior to the films -- it just counted officially, is all.

    Canon was Lucasfilm's term, not the EU fandom's. Stop blaming us :p
     
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  15. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
    I'm not blaming anyone, but I'm referring to people who talk about the new system as if the language LFL is using now is the same language they used last time and they somehow betrayed that by rebooting--it's fine to be disappointed, but not to pretend we'd been lied to for the last twenty years.

    But now that you mention it, can I just blame you, like, personally? These conversations would go so much more smoothly that way.
     
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  16. Zeta1127

    Zeta1127 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    LFL already made such declarations of canonization like we were given back in April, inherently meaningless when Darth Maul was revived in TCW, or arguable with the creation of TCW itself. It seems to me like we actually were lied to, at least by the LFL marketing machine, because Lucas was the only one who ever really said the EU wasn't the real story. I mean, it was always the prerogative of film and TV to ignore the EU as they saw fit, so why even bother formally declaring what is canon?
     
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  17. CooperTFN

    CooperTFN TFN EU Staff Emeritus star 6 VIP

    Registered:
    Jul 8, 1999
  18. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011

    You have my support, as long as I get to call it "the juice".
     
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  19. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    [face_laugh][face_rofl][face_laugh]

    .... Oh, you were serious?
     
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  20. Grey1

    Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2000
    All those years, I never used Expanded Universe as "Alternate Universe", or "Not Really Counting Universe". Just as Expanded. And that it did. So for me, it was more of a complimentary universe/bag-of-fiction. This time around, this bag-of-fiction is supposedly reigned in much more, because there's new borders this time around.

    Last time Zahn wasn't allowed to delve into Clone Wars lore because there were possibly going to be movies about that at one point, but giving kids to the Solos and eventually to Luke was okay. As was killing off movie characters like Chewbacca. Then the rules changed and the future of the movie heroes (including potential children) was off-limits as well, so now they start over again. If, at this point, we only had EU sources up to ROTJ, or if the pre-OT EU had been more clearly seperated from the post-OT EU, they might have only declared one part non-canon, but it was too much hassle so they kind of started over from scratch.

    So, it's a different thing - I wouldn't give the same name to it (therefore people come up with stuff like NEU). I agree that the complimentary nature is somewhat different this time around, since the movies and TV shows will do so much expanding of the universe that comic books and novels will not be so outrageous in their invention of new stuff. But it will still kind of expand the SW universe in secondary media, so I don't really see a change in "this time they swear it's canon". The canon aspect isn't determining whether it's expanding or not.

    So, if anything, I think it needs a different name because it's a different thing. Kind of. Seeing how much might be salvaged after all (lots of concepts, less actual stories). "Other Junk" sounds quite catchy, I would have gone for "Novels, comic books and video games, you know, that kind of stuff".
     
  21. Zorrixor

    Zorrixor Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 8, 2004
    True, because this time when G-Canon Canon ignores C-Canon Canon, Disney will have no excuse to fall back on other than admitting: "Er, yeah, so, about all those books being equal to the films...? You believed that? Hahahaha."
     
  22. Grey1

    Grey1 Host: 181st Imperial Discussion Group star 4 VIP

    Registered:
    Nov 21, 2000
    Well, they'll probably say nothing at all because the stuff sells either way, will they? "So, yeah, the move novelizations are canon, that should be clear. If they do not contradict what's on the screen. We're not actually saying it, but the meaning should be clear. Well, we do not actually mean it, but..."
     
  23. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 9 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I have no idea what Lucas said about canon in the early 90s, I wasn't paying much attention to Star Wars then, but my theory is that he came up with G-canon, C-canon, T-canon, GTFO-canon, etc. to cover for the fact that he changes his mind all the time.

    "Oh, I didn't actually mean that that was the real story."

    Yeah you did, last week. This week Obi-Wan and Owen are not brothers. Next week Anakin actually will have met Yoda.
     
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  24. JediKnight75

    JediKnight75 Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2011
    I think it depends on how you interpret the term EU. If it means things that are of lesser canon than it makes sense to abandon it. If you interpret it as things outside of the movies -- regardless of canonical status -- that expands outside of what the majority of fans see, then keeping EU is logical. I have always preferred the latter, mainly because that's how I interpreted the label. The books and comics just happened to be at a lower canon level, which I never perceived as the reason behind the EU category. Thus I'll keep using EU; these books and comics still go beyond what the main Star Wars audience will see and thus the yexpand the universe. Now the EU just happens to be on the same level as the films and TV shows.
     
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  25. JediDingo

    JediDingo Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2005
    Are we beginning to question our entire existence? I feel like we are.
     
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