PT Shouldn't there still be clones?

This is an interesting idea. That being said, working with Clones also has its financial advantages, as regular recruits would probably receive a far larger salary then the Clones. Recruits:

(a) Retire, and can live up to old age at the expense of the Empire;

(b) Can have families, and those would have to be provided for from the Trooper`s salary from the Empire;

(c) Can`t work as many hours as a Clone Trooper, who is conditioned from baby age to deal with extreme circunstances;

(d) Probably take leaves and vacations to be with his/her family every once in a while;

(e) Must be convinved that fighting for the Empire is a good thing, thus marketing is involved.

To keep order and prevent uprisings. What better way to keep a dictatorship than to have an army of mindless troopers conditioned to obey your every whim?

The Senate didn`t do that during the Clone Wars (when they had more political power), so I don`t see why they would be able do that after Palpatine is already Emperor (and the Senate is relegated largely to resolve bureaucratic matters).

Any reason as to why Palps would do such a thing?

How are clones strong-willed? The movie never states that. In fact, it states the exact opposite, that they have been tempered with to be less independent, totally obedient, and take any order without question.

Also, I don`t see why Palpatine would ever want people that are not good at their jobs to serve as his troops. That makes no sense.

That`s what Battlefront II suggested as well. I don`t think the Kaminoans cared what they were cloning them for though, and in any event, the Empire could simply take over operations and replace Lama Su with a more obedient ruler.

 

because it's not in the movies. it's in tcw and rebels which are canon

 

I had initially assumed that it was something that was started and stopped. But obviously, the idea was that it was an ongoing process.

According to Filoni, he hinted that Rex believed Fives regarding what happened to him and Tup during the first part of season six. It seems that he was only able to convince Wolffe and Gregor and they all had the chips removed, then went into hiding.

He only needed the bio chip to justify killing the Jedi without hesitation. All future Stormtroopers could be conscripted from a young age and brainwashed into service. It's also faster since it takes five years to grow new batches of clones and the process was still without its flaws. Plus, as we saw in "Breaking Ranks", Palpatine used the recruitment process to find potential Force sensitives.

 

To avoid somebody else to commission a clone army to fight against him. In the EU he razed Kamino when he discovered that they had used the payment for the Grand Army of the Republic to create a similar army for themselves, so he bombed the planet before said new army was ready.

 

Cool but doesn't explain why he wouldn't use the thousands of child, infant & embryo clones. May as well utilise them as well as the new recruits. IMO would should see some clonetroopers in their prime at the time of Rebels & ANH.

 

Darth Sidious: "I will not kill embryos! What kind of monster do you take me for?"
Darth Vader: "Ooh, ooh, let me do it Master! I love killing defenseless things!!"
Darth Sidious: "Of course, my friend" *Vader leaves* "Ugh, I should have went with Tyranus. At least he was a good badguy."

 

Darth Sidious: "I will not kill embryos! What kind of monster do you take me for?"
Darth Vader: "But Master, what about a Sith's right to choose? After all it's our galaxy."

 

Takes time to grow and train. Human recruits take less time to train and are already grown enough to be utilized. There might have been a transition during the fifteen years, or the DNA samples might have been too corrupted. Part of the reason Jango stayed on Kamino was that fresh DNA samples were being cultivated from him, but with his death, the DNA samples might have started to corrode.

 

In that case, why not use Boba's DNA? He's entirely unaltered

Granted, I suppose there could be issues stemming from cloning a clone, and I believe in the EU they even had a story where Boba eventually suffered from some degradation as a result of cloning

Point remains though, in theory, it's possible

 

True, but it was probably just easier for Palpatine to use recruits. If we take what was talked about in the new EU, it seems that Palpatine became more hands off and let Tarkin and the other higher up Imperials handle the day-to-day issues.

 

I always thought it was called the CLONE WARS for a reason. In other words, if clones are still around, why call that conflict the clone wars? It only makes sense if clones were mostly limited to it. If clones are the normal source of soldiers, calling it the clone wars seems nonsensical.

 

DNA samples don't "corrode" when stored using advanced techniques. That's even in our world let alone a GFFA. Anyway, I'm sure some kind of in universe explanation can be made for the lack of clones. I just hope they provide one that takes into account the clones that were in early development at the time of the PT.

 

It wasn't about storage, but about usage. Mass producing clones tends to wear down the DNA sample. That was the case according to the script and novelization.

LAMA SU: "We modified their genetic structure to make them less independent than the original host. As a result they are totally obedient, taking any order without question."

OBI-WAN: "Who was the original host?"

LAMA SU: "A bounty hunter called Jango Fett."

OBI-WAN: "Where is this bounty hunter now?"

LAMA SU: "Oh, we keep him here. After a few hundred thousand clones, the genetic pattern starts to fade, so we take a fresh supply. He lives here, but he’s free to come and go as he pleases."

 

Well this might not help much BUT aside from casualties and such - perhaps the risk of potential 'Clone Madness?' and accelerated aging has another side effect perhaps? Given a standard Clone Troopers are 10 years old but really 20 years old something and also the fact that perhaps also don't forget the supposed casualties in the Clone Wars both in the Canon and EU prompted and compelled Palpatine to release a 'second Clone Army' which raised suspicion on where in the Galaxy did he get the 'second Clone Army' whom were rushed up and such and not as good as the previous Clone Troopers - and perhaps maybe a deal went sour with the Kaminoans whom were the main suppliers of the Cloning Technology and such ... plus perhaps also the difficulty in maintaining the Jango Fett Clone Template? Plus the fact Cloning Technology is still not exactly always that easy to supply and maintain ... plus perhaps the fact Palpatine himself wasn't going to forever more just stick w' Clone Troopers and such - afterall he did have other plans up his 'SHEEV'...

 

Problem is recruits would still have overriding loyalties to family and friends over him, clones would not.

 

Novelizations are pretty much alternative interpretations of the films and should be taken with a grain of salt when comparing to the films.

 

Was it Lucas or LFL licensing that approved it? I am not really sure where Age acceleration is coming from since the films never said it, only growth acceleration which does not include decline. Aging for normal humans has 3 main phases, growth from infant to adulthood, homeostasis from 25 to 35, and at about 35 the self destruct timer to death begins. Environmental factors and genes affects the timing and rates of these stages from one individual to the next. Growth acceleration should only affect the first phase while age acceleration would affect all 3 phases, however, the films only say growth acceleration and nothing about accelerated decline for the clones.

It seems to me that the EU ever since the 70s and even the modern Disney EU just hates the idea of Stormtroopers being clones and comes up with all sorts of bizarre stories to turn them into recruits for equally bizarre reasons. It is just such an intense desire among EU writers that has carried over into the story group. I guess clonning to stormtroopers are what midis are to Jedi, alot of people hate the concepts because it ruins the escapist fantasy of going to the GFFA to train to become either Jedi or stormtroopers. It doesn't make any sense for the Empire to stop using clones as clonning troops is a thing they cerntainly would do and is a step of the Republic turning into the Empire.

 

One of the effects of Progeria is that it slows down growth so they are much shorter and weigh less than others their age.

 

not at all. people are mostly stupid and they've been told the empire is life. they'd gladly die for the glory of the empire. see real life examples of people acting like mindless drones.

 

Jango clones are still around and in imperial service in NEU canon (Lords of the Sith and Tarkin) 5 years after the events of RotS. I'm not sure what percentage of the imperial army they make up at that point, but they are present. Personally, I think there is a potentially great story(s) to be told about the transition to recruits. Insight into the how order 66 was interpreted by both loyal and 'rebel' clones as well as learning exactly how long Jango clones lasted in imperial ranks. It would seem at the very least that they would have made up the bulk of NCOs and even significant percentage of COs and command staffs for a couple decades.

 

When discussing Rebels, I believe it was Pablo that they were following Lucas' notes which stated that the clones were dropped because they were too independent and there was a spike in Patriotism following TCW and that Palpatine found that he could find greater loyalty in those patriots than clones. So it seems like Lucas wanted to make a warning about the dangers of ultra-nationalism and how it can lead to a greater lack of individuality than that found in clones.

Other sources have shown that clones weren't abandoned 100% as one did appear in the Tarkin novel, which I believe took place 5 years after ROTS, but even by that time, Tarkin seems to indicate that they are a rare sight and had largely been replaced by recruits.

Or perhaps he tracked them down post Order-66 and was able to apprehend them and remove their chip after the fact. No idea, but I just think that would be more interesting.

 

We don't know if those notes only pertain to Rebels or to the films as well as the notes go against what the films state about clones being totally loyal beyond question. Also don't know how truthful Pablo is being as back during the making of ROTS, he asked Lucas if the OT stormtroopers are clones which Lucas responded yes, they are clones. As I said, many people have a hardon for the Empire dropping clones and downgrading to recruits. But again as the films show, Palps is not a man who downgrades. Both TCW and Rebels veer off and do some things very differently from the films making it very problematic to compare the aspects of the two cartoon series with the films. It is very common place for spin off series, especially cartoon spinoffs to be very different from the films they are based on.

Another problem with these notes is that by ANH, the Empire is already losing popularity and by ROTJ it is clearly widely disliked. This would make recruiting very difficult with such low popularity and the Empire would have an ever increasing need for cloning as recruits would be drying up

That chip plot from the TCW really contradicts with everything that is said abou the clones in AOTC, personally I side with the films over a spin off cartoon show.

 

However, canon doesn't mean they mesh well, or at all with the films. Disney uses the canon stamp much more loosely than Lucas ever did which is a problem.

 

TCW may have been clumsy with canon from time to time, but it was far more thoughtfully concerned with it than the average "cartoon spinoff". Also, what was said about the clones in AotC doesnt contradict anything that happens subsequently in TCW.. One of the central themes of TCW was to underline, expand and explain exactly how those claims turned out to be false - not just because of the chips story. You can decide to reject that for your personal canon, but I personally feel they did a good job of "canonically" convincing me.

Poverty and desperation can fill ranks often much better than patriotism and nationalism

 

I disagree, TCW chip plot is a poor plot that disregards everything that is stated about the clones in AOTC. It feels like a way to "correct" the PT and I fear we will see more and more spin off material "correcting" Lucas' "mistakes". Much like how Anakin was revamped in TCW, so were the clones and many other story elements. This makes comparing TCW to the PT highly problematic at best. Anakin, the clones, and many other things are very different between the films and the series and the series isn't all that faithful to the films. ROTS clearly shows that the claims made in AOTC are ruthlessly correct and that clones obey all orders without question like 66. Basically what you are saying is TCW main point is to retcon the PT storyline to be more favorable to the basher crowd. The problem is in the PT the clones have a vauge sinister air to them, and in ROTS their true colors are shown that they are an army of thugs. However, TCW painted a very different picture of the clones being "nice guys" that contradicts with the films so they had to invent an asinine plot about chips that futher contradicts with the films in an attempt to "explain" this glaring plot hole TCW created. One of the reasons the Sith picked Jango to clone was that he was a ruthless thug and they wanted that in their army.

As for poverty and desperation can fill ranks, it fills your ranks with poor troops without much fight in them, Palps is not a guy who downgrades and would not want such low quality troops. After all it is a bad idea to train and arm your serfs to fight because that can and will turn on you. No, it is far better to create a warror class to protect and keep in line your serfs, and clones fits this bill quite nicely. The whole idea of the Empire switching out clones for recruits makes zero sense, especially since using cloned troops fits like hand in glove with the Empire. To use mass manufactored men to fight its battles and keep its subjects in check.