Showing the true power of Anakin and Mace

Discussion in 'Revenge of the Sith' started by yoshifett, Sep 16, 2005.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Two conceptions I often hear/read about ROTS:

    1) We're never shown how powerful Anakin is because he isn't shown in combat with another Jedi except for Obi-wan, and he loses that battle.

    2) Mace is not given enough credit and goes out in a "poorly choreographed" scene like a punk when Anakin betrays him. Mace is not given a chance to show his skills except against Sidious.

    My thread solves both of these problems.

    Instead of Anakin chopping Mace's hand off, he blocks the saber strike and then fights Mace until he's finished. Perhaps this would have made the scene better, to see Anakin fully realize his potential by killing Mace. That would show his power, and could you imagine the tension between those two?!

    Sidious would let the battle rage and watch his apprentice?s new skills, but also be ready to step in and blast Mace if necessary.

    Also, as an added bonus. it would help slow down Anakin's turn, which many deem to be "too sudden."

    This would solve two of the main complaints that people have about the movie.
  2. Revenge_of_SW3 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 24, 2005
    star 2
    You know, that would have been a cool duel...
  3. BareBodkin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 2005
    star 1
    You're not going to want that showing up the Obi-Wan/Anakin duel, though.
  4. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    You know, I thought about that, but I think the emotion in the Obi-Wan/Anakin duel is so intense, this duel wouldn't overshadow it.
  5. Extreme_yoda Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2002
    star 2

    OMG that would so made the movie better......and they couldve added a line to anakin's dialogue during his duel

    Obi wan" i will defeat u......

    Anakin " You will try as MasterWindu did.......



  6. obi1andreasen79 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2005
    star 4
    The video game explores this possibilty and it's quite cool.
    I have to say the fact that Mace puts Sidious on his back makes his character impressive enough. Also, he did some cool stuff in AOTC too.
    To me ,the people say mace went out like a punk are the ones who can't cope with the fact that Mace actually had the Sith Master beat....
    This however ,is a whole other can of worms that has been debated endlessly, and it's not my intent to delve into all that again.
    Bottomline....an Anakin vs Mace scenario would have been cool, but I'm happy with the way it is on film. Anyone looking to have a Mace and Anakin fight needs only to look as far as the ROTS video game.
  7. windu25 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 24, 2005
    star 1
    [image=http://www.njparentweb.com/graphics/anakin_mace.jpg]


    Oh, It's so On!!!
  8. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Well, I'm not sure that I'd want this change in the film anyway, I was just throwing out the possibility for discussion. I want to see if other people think the scene would have advantages over the way it's shot now. I mean, I really love the quick move by Anakin, the utter betrayal, and the way he screams "NO!" (one of the best "NO!"s in the saga, IMO).
    And this is my favorite scene overall, I just know there have been many complaints about it as it is.
  9. obi1andreasen79 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2005
    star 4
    I hear ya yoshifett.
    To me, the one thing I would change is that during the Anakin and Obi duel, Obi Wan should have been trying to get anakin to come back to the light more.{like the video game}
    This way, when Vader says to Luke in ROTJ "Obi Wan once thought as you do", we wouldn't be thinking.."really? is that why he mutilated you and left you to die on Mustafar?"
    I mean I really did love ROTS, but I still don't feel it "completely" connects the trilogies in certain ways. There were parts when Obi tried I guess, but mostly he was just warning Anakin that he had the high ground, and if he leaps he will do what he must....
  10. mjerome3 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2000
    star 6
    That's what happens in the ROTS video game; Anakin blocks Windu's saber with his own and they duel.
  11. Obi_Frans Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2003
    star 4
    I think in this case, it's supposed to feel "too sudden". Anakins way too confused to start a elaborated fight right now; Mace would destroy him in a second if Anakin tried fighting him in this state. Anakins panicking completely here. That's the entire point; things get out of control within the matter of seconds. And Anakins completely lost in the moment; this simply isn't the time for him to duel somebody.

    Look at him when he strikes Mace's arm; he cries out, drops his saber and falls back into the chair in shock. That's a lot more powerful then having him do some cool strong moves.

    - O_F
  12. LordRevan19 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2005
    star 4
    I think we did see Ani's full potential in ROTS. With fighting Dooku, and using all those special moves against Obi-wan.

    Good Stuff
  13. SithOWNtheJedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 29, 2005
    star 3
    What if George Lucas adds in that scene on the DVD?
  14. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    *bows*

    You KNOW I love the thread premise Master Yoshifett......but I'm afraid this battle would actually harm the series more than help out the two mentioned participants.

    Anakin Skywalker is a level 9 lightsaber duelist who while extremely gifted....lacks the wisdom to control his emotions in pressure situations. As we know Mace Windu is a controlled professional who at the very least is a slightly more powerful Jedi than Anakin during the time of ROTS.

    I know Anakin can tap the darkside to narrow the experience gap as he did gainst Dooku, but IMO that tactic won't work against Mace because of his lightsaber form seven and his ability to duel an opponent whilst locating the "shatterpoint". These are abilities that Master Kenobi simply does not have and would raise serious questions as to how Anakin can defeat a Yoda level character in Master Mace Windu, but fall to a significantly less powerful Jedi in Kenobi.

    Before you mention Dooku.....consider that Lord Tyrannus is a level 8 himself....the same as Kenobi....and that Anakin had true vengence in his heart for losing in AOTC. IMO Anakin would enjoy no such "real" luxury against Mace Windu.....as Mace has never done anything personally to Anakin. Also consider the "as powerful as Master Windu" line from AOTC.......that line establishes that Mace is regarded highest in power by the Jedi Order.........and makes a safe assessment that Anakin would aspire to reach and pass that level.

    So any anger percieved on Anakin's part between the two of them would have to be motivated by some perversion of the truth as Palpatine did with setting up the Kenobi/Skywalker duel. This scenario I believe favors Mace Windu's calm thinking, patience, and wisdom.

    In any event the duel would have made the Finale with Kenobi on Mustafar outcome even more confusing and less acceptable..........something this film did not need.
  15. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    Very interesting post Commander. So are you saying that having the scene play out this way would make it even more confusing, in terms of ranking the power of the Jedi/Sith, than it is now? Is that necessarily a bad thing?

    If that's the only reason, I don't know. I don't think the plot should be dictated so it can make our power rankings easier to figure out. I like the idea of Anakin and Mace, who have such animosity towards one another, actually physically going at it. It would make Anakin's turn seem more deliberate.
  16. -maynard- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 1, 2005
    star 3
    good job. depending on how it played out, im not sure how mace's stature would be improved. the only way i can see it is if he was double-teamed and held his own for a few sequences before being overwhelmed.

    i actually feel what mace did in ROTS was sufficient. however i think he should have battled Dooku in AOTC. after beheading Fett in 5 seconds and then forcing dooku to flee to save his life would have secured his place.

    having him instead of yoda walk in and confront dooku would be a pure BMF moment
  17. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    sorry - i disagree. anakin is acting in the moment. he only knows that palpatine must live because he "needs him" - to save the life of padme. a duel with mace would, by it's implication and distraction from palpatine, take the "innocence" of anakin...he's acting on impulse and must block the imminent threat to the salavation of padme..which is exactly how palpatine choreographed this act 3 - a prolonged duel would imply intent and disregard of mace - as the jedi leader of the council (yoda is not on coruscant courtesy of the manipulations of palpatine/sidious). anakin could have chosen to deliver a death blow to mace - that is not his intention; he doesn't realize that palpatine is faking his weakness. it is much like the defense of temporary insanity. we choose to abhor that designation but many times it is correct. this is one of those times.
  18. yoshifett Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2004
    star 5
    I totally respect your disagreement, I'm not sure that I think it should have gone this way either. But I like the idea of Anakin really having to take responsibility for what happens to Mace. As you say, as it is, it plays out like a temporary moment of madness: followed by twenty more years of the same!

    So, I think perhaps having Anakin kill Mace in actual combat would make Anakin's turn more deliberate.
  19. COMMANDER76 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 12, 2005
    star 4
    I guess to break it down Master Yoshifett......I'm saying that Anakin versus Dooku is in essense a Lightsight versus Darkside duel where Anakin enjoys the age old Hollywood tradition of being on the right side AND being more powerful....trully a win/win situation.

    Anakin versus Mace would put Mace in the "hero" slot and give him the advantages of being BOTH morally right and physicly more powerful......something I'm not sure would look right on-screen with Mace losing after Lucas has stated that Mace/Sidious/Yoda are on a tier by themselves in ROTS.

    That very quote by Lucas delagates Anakin down to the Obi-Wan/Dooku level even if he is slightly stronger than them.

    Anakin versus Obi-Wan puts Kenobi into the "hero" slot thus giving him the moral edge from a story telling perspective to combat Anakin's superior brute strength.......this would not apply to the Mace/Anakin duel.

    There are NO exceptions to this balance found in the Saga anywhere.....where a character can dominate both the moral and physical plane of the battle and still lose.

    Jinn versus Maul-Jinn=moral/Maul=physical:winner-Maul
    Kenobi versus Maul-Kenobi=moral/Maul=physical:winner-Kenobi
    Kenobi versus Dooku-Kenobi=moral/Dooku=physical:winner-Dooku
    Anakin versus Dooku-Anakin=moral/Dooku=physical:winner-Dooku
    Yoda versus Dooku-Yoda=moral/Yoda=physical:winner-Yoda
    Kenobi versus Dooku 2-Kenobi=moral/Dooku=physical:winner-Dooku
    Anakin versus Dooku 2-Anakin=moral/Anakin=physical:winner-Anakin
    Kenobi versus Grievous-Kenobi=moral/Kenobi=physical:winner-Kenobi
    Mace versus Anakin-*Mace=moral/Mace=physical*winner-Logic NOT continiuity dictates Mace
    Mace versus Sidious-Mace=moral/Sidious=physical:winner-Sidious*
    Kenobi versus Anakin-Kenobi=moral/Anakin=physical:winner-Kenobi
    Yoda versus Sidious-Yoda=moral/Sidious=physical:winner-Sidious
    Luke versus Vader-Luke=moral/Vader=physical:winner-Vader
    Luke versus Vader 2-Luke=moral/Luke=physical:winner-Luke
  20. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    yoshifett - ahhh- but that is the gist. it is NOT intentional. this is the story of anakin...he really, with all cards on the table, does not intend the death of mace, the death of the jedi. he's not there yet. palpatine has not delivered the final death blow to anakin. it does happen-but not before anakin has accidently committed by severing mace's hand thereby delivering sidious the coup de grace - the mace home run.
  21. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    I just know there have been many complaints about it as it is.

    Too true, That there has been . good thread Yoshi.

    I also agree that since there is no love Lost between Mace and Anakin, seeing those two going at it would have worked very well also. and it would have given more time to the Turn, and choice that Anakin makes . And you are also correct, Anakin's power has been shown in the Movies , but his Great "POTENTIAL" has never really been shown. His deeds onscreen are no greater than we have Seen from ObiWan , Dooku, Yoda,and others.
    And it would have been priceless to see Mace's reaction when Anakin stands Against him. in ROTS it happens so fast Mace does not even really what has happened till it's way too late. this would give it some more tension .it would be like Mace's own personal order66. [face_laugh]

    Having said this, I still Love ROTS as is. but this scenario would have worked nicely as well.
  22. lovelucas Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2004
    star 4
    at the risk of sounding repetitive: i repeat-anakin does not intend to duel or deal a death blow to mace. he just wants to stop mace from killing palaptine. he is still innocent. he has not yet been to the temple nor mustafar. he is still being PLAYED.
  23. thechozn1 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 15, 2005
    star 4

    I like the idea of changing this scene around a little. While I agree with you that it was meant to get out of control very quickly I would have preferred them to have a duel, and maybe Mace gets the best of him at first, putting him on his a**. But then as Mace goes over to Palps to deal the death blow Anakin flies over in a rage kinda like he did in AOTC with Dookoo and then he takes out Mace in a darkside induced flurry... basically Mace barley being able to defend himself as the chosen one shows us his power. After that he could kinda step back and do the "What have I done" line.
  24. DUGGY Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2005
    star 4
    at the risk of sounding repetitive: i repeat-anakin does not intend to duel or deal a death blow to mace. he just wants to stop mace from killing palaptine. he is still innocent. he has not yet been to the temple nor mustafar. he is still being PLAYED.


    I know . [face_plain] I also know that Anakin did turn to the Darkside in that scene. we are only saying that this thread topic would be an interesting option as well. Despite the fact that Anakin did'nt intend to duel or despite the fact tha he did'nt deal the death blow. ( which i disagree , i believe the second he took Mace's arm, that was a DEATH BLOW he handed Mace to Palpatine on a silver platter) does not matter He turned anyway. so this is relevant and whether he is being played or not does not really matter. because he TURNED. ;)
  25. obi1andreasen79 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 25, 2005
    star 4
    While I did enjoy the concept of dueling Mace as Anakin in the video game, after seeing the movie, it kind of messes up the story. In the game, Anakin is miffed at Mace for not following the jedi ways, and accuses him of trying to kill a politician. The game ignores the fact that Palpatine has revealed himself as a Sith to Anankin, and that Anakin is rather mad about it. I like the fact that Anakin only steps in because of his need for knowledge of how to save Padme. The movie dosen't get into the politics of why Anakin feels Mace is wrong because thats really not the point. Anakin turns here but not completely. It's not until his rage in the Jedi temple that the darkside really pulls him under.
    I guess what I'm trying to say is that Anakin stopping Mace is because of Padme, and not because he has any real animosity towards Mace. It makes Anakins character more pathetic, and not so preachy. What gets me is in the game he's preaching that"it's not the Jedi way" only to go on a bloodthirsty rampage through the temple killing children.
    I'm glad the scene played the way it did because it cements why Anakin begins to slide into darkness. His unwillingness to let go of those he cares about....not his political or moral views....
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.