Sifo-Dyas is Darth Maul and there are 2 Clone Wars

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by SaxTrois, Jul 20, 2002.

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  1. SaxTrois Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    Every Sith Lord has an old Jedi name. Darth Vader=Anakin, Darth Tyranus=Count Dooku, etc.
    Darth Maul=Sifo-Dyas.
    Here's something no one has probably though of: Why is Maul so mysterious and why does he wear that ridiculous face paint? Answer: He's Sifo-Dyas and the face paint keeps Jedi who knew him form recognizing him (like Gui-Gon and Obi Wan during the duel). Also consider that Sifo-Dyas was "killed almost 10 years ago." That's when Maul bit the dust. Yoda and Mace give a knowing look when Kenobi tells them about Sifo-Dyas - this is b/c they found out that Maul was Sifo-Dyas. "Which one was destroyed, the master or the apprentice?" (Ep. I) Well, 10 yrs was more then enough time to figure that out. It was the apprentice and it was Sifo-Dyas.
    Perhaps Sifo-Dyas was one of the lost 20. The Jedi don't like to talk about them. Yoda and Mace keep Obi-Wan in the dark about this. Remember, they don't like to talk about it - Kenobi doesn't even know about the lost 20 until Jocasta Nu gives him a history lesson in the jedi archives (novel and screenplay, cut from the movie).
    What do you think?
    Also, there will def. be 2 clone wars. Remember in the OT, they always refer to the "Clone Wars" plural. In Ep II Yoda says "begun the Clone War (singular) has." Why the discrepancy? There will be 2 wars. War #1 will be won by the republic, defeating the separatists. But then, the Jedi will be framed and have to take on the very clones they fought beside. Another war. Two wars equal Clone Wars, plural.
    Thoughts anyone?
  2. TheHighEmperor Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2001
    star 2
    Totally impossible, but very well thought out.

    A fresh topic to discuss.

  3. Icebreaker Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 20, 2001
    star 4
    Um...No?
    :confused:



    ~ICeBreaKeR
    His abilities have made him...arrogant
  4. SaxTrois Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    instead of saying it's impossible or um, no, how about some reasoning to back it up?
    Maul was bad ass for Sidious till OB1 killed him. Thus Maul/Sifo-Dysa orderes the clone army 10 yrs before ep II before dying, using his jedi name to make it seem legit.
  5. grand_admiral_ewok Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    Well, Maul being Sifo-Dyas is a theory, but as Lucas said, MAUL WILL NOT RETURN. I take that to mean that we will never hear another utterance of his name in the saga, or anything to do with him.
  6. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Also, Maul was never a Jedi. He was trained in the Sith ways by Sidious since infancy.
  7. SaxTrois Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    how do we know maul was trained as a sith since infancy? everyone says that-where does it come from? does that info come from Ep I novel or screenplay? if not, it's bull.
  8. kampilan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    Although it is a good theory I also agree that we might not hear from Maul again. That includes any more references and/or links.
    The only link I see is that Sifo is like Chinese Sifu meaning "teacher" and Ray Park is a Wushu practitioner but I don't know if he is a Sifu.
  9. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Maul was wearing Sith tatoos as part of his desire to be a full Sith Lord. To honnor his Sith brethern.

    Lucas wouldn't have let the eu delve into his past, if he had plans for Maul. Sifo-Dyas died and was known to many Jedi. Qui-gon would've recognized him. Also, Obi-wan said that Sifo-Dyas died before the clones were ordered. And only two Sith were Jedi. The mystery is who used his name to order the clones and it looks like Dooku did the deed.

    Clone Wars mean several different battles that consitute as war or in this case, wars. There's conflict on all sides, not just the CIS.
  10. Ret Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 1999
    star 6
    "why does he wear that ridiculous face paint"

    He would still have the same face. If I put red and black paint on my face people would still recognize me.
  11. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    how do we know maul was trained as a sith since infancy? everyone says that-where does it come from?

    It comes from the numerous Star Wars sources that are in existence.

    does that info come from Ep I novel or screenplay? if not, it's bull.

    Why, may I ask, is it bull? And why are the EP1 novelization and the screenplay excluded from 'bull' status? They are as much EU as any other source.

    Besides, it was Dooku who ordered the clones, not Maul or Sidious.
  12. SaxTrois Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    the screenplay is the written version of the movie, the script if you will. the stuff that ewan mcgregor reads so he knows his lines - not EU.
    The novelezation is a novel version of the film - not EU.
    It has been said time and time again that the films (which would include the screenplays), the novels, and the radio dramas are the only canon material. All other sources are EU - other people's ideas on what happens but not necessarily what Lucas thinks.
    If it aint the movies, it aint Lucas. EU is to convuluted for me. Linking info from them to the movies is not kosher, i.e., bull.

    Also - in response to others: Obi Wan was "under the impression he was killed before (ordering the clone army)." That's just what OB1 thinks. Only Yoda and Mace know for sure.

    While we're at it, what's up with Qui-Gon's voice? This def has to do with Anakin "learning to stop people from dying." I'm betting he conjures up the voice on accident and Yoda eventually learns how to harness this power to retain identity.
  13. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    the screenplay is the written version of the movie, the script if you will. the stuff that ewan mcgregor reads so he knows his lines - not EU.

    Perhaps you need to familiarize yourself with the definitions of EU. The EU is anything that is not a movie. The script is not the movie, and neither is the novelization. Therefore, both are EU.

    If you don't believe me, check LFL's or TOS's policies.

    The novelezation is a novel version of the film - not EU.

    See above.

    It has been said time and time again that the films (which would include the screenplays), the novels, and the radio dramas are the only canon material.

    Um, no it hasn't. PPOR. That whole "novelization, scripts, radio dramas" thing is just a myth that has been perpetuated throughout the Internet. If you look carefully, there is no actual LFL policy that details the hierarchy you stated.

    All other sources are EU - other people's ideas on what happens but not necessarily what Lucas thinks.

    Movies
    EU
    Infinities

    Everything with the Star Wars label fits into one of those three categories.

    If it aint the movies, it aint Lucas. EU is to convuluted for me. Linking info from them to the movies is not kosher, i.e., bull.

    Well, that's your opinion, and I respect that.

    Also - in response to others: Obi Wan was "under the impression he was killed before (ordering the clone army)." That's just what OB1 thinks. Only Yoda and Mace know for sure.

    Sifo-Dyas was a real Jedi Master killed shortly after the Battle of Naboo. When Dooku left the Order around that time, he used Sifo-Dyas's name when he ordered the clones from the Kaminoans.

    While we're at it, what's up with Qui-Gon's voice? This def has to do with Anakin "learning to stop people from dying." I'm betting he conjures up the voice on accident and Yoda eventually learns how to harness this power to retain identity.

    It might; we'll just have to see.
  14. JediRuler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 15, 2002
    star 2
    Sifo-Dyas being Darth Maul is the best thought i've heard so far, but the whole second clone war is kind of far fetched. :-D
  15. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Tell ya what, SaxTrois, as this thread has the potential to become a full-fledged EU debate, I suggest we both drop the matter on this thread. If you want to discuss this privately, feel free to PM me.
  16. SaxTrois Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    C'mon, some more people gotta have some comments on Maul being Sifo-Dyas.
  17. Master_Jedi_Kenobi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    star 1
    In your comparison of Maul to Sifo-Dyas you said that they both died ten years ago. But by this logic, Qui-Gon could also be considered Sifo-Dyas. For Maul to be Sifo-Dyas, he would've had to have left the council and then immediately become Darth Maul, and then die a short period after that. It just seems a little impractical considering in Episode I, Sidious makes several mentions of how well trained Maul is. This means that Sidious must have spent quite a bit of time training Maul. However, if he was Sifo-Dyas, and he "died" (left the order) around 10 years ago and then died around the same time, that would leave very little room in between for Sidious to train his apprentice.
  18. Pooja Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 6
    I agree that it's a very cool theory, and I wouldn't shut it out. I don't think, myself, that it's true, but like I said it's very well thought out, and who says it's not possible?

    Believe it or not, us JC'ers are not prophets, and we don't know what Lucas is thinking, and none of us have a clue as to what will be revealed in Episode III, so how about we stop saying that every theory that comes by is wrong- we really don't know. I'm not accusing any of you specifically, but it seems that everytime someone wants to discuss what they think, it's totally irrelevant and could never happen.

    Nice theory.
  19. SaxTrois Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    In reponse to Jedi_Master_Kenobi:

    I agree, Qui-Gon could most def me Sifo-Dyas. I've pondered that often.

    However I think Sifo-Dyas could have left the order long ago, become Maul, train for a long time and then reveal himself in TPM. Then, after Maul dies, maybe Jedi like Mace and Yoda find out it was Sifo-Dyas and all the Jedi mourn this loss - but Yoda and Mace (and whoever else knows) don't reveal that Sifo-Dyas was Maul. This would explain how OB1 heard some Jedi Temple cafeteria gossip that Sifo-Dyas died around the time of TPM. He doesn't seem to know anything excep that Dyas died around the time of TPM.
    So basically, I think that Sifo-Dyas could've left the order long ago and become Maul, avoiding the quick timeline you think might have to occur.
  20. SaxTrois Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    Also, it is clear from ep II that Qui-Gon still has a role to play...maybe he is Sifo-Dyas.
  21. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    In case you missed it earlier:

    Sifo-Dyas was a real Jedi Master who was killed shortly after the Battle of Naboo, which, coincidentally, was around the same time that Dooku left the order. Dooku was recruited by Sidious almost immediately, as he needed to fill the apprentice slot in the Sith order. One of Dooku's first acts while working for Sidious was to pose as Sifo-Dyas and order a clone army from the Kaminoans.

    I can't believe I'm seeing this nonsense about Qui-Gon or Maul being Sifo-Dyas.
  22. SaxTrois Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    "Sifo-Dyas was a real Jedi Master who was killed shortly after the Battle of Naboo, which, coincidentally, was around the same time that Dooku left the order. Dooku was recruited by Sidious almost immediately, as he needed to fill the apprentice slot in the Sith order."

    Yes, and Maul and Gui-Gon were both killed shortly after the battle of Naboo. Are you quoting that info from a particular source? Just curious to take a look if you are. I don't see anything there that refutes my theory. Sifo Dyas was killed 10 years ago and Lama Su thinks he was a leading member of the Jedi Council. That's really all we know. Nothing concrete about his history has been revealed as far as I can see.


    "One of Dooku's first acts while working for Sidious was to pose as Sifo-Dyas and order a clone army from the Kaminoans."

    This is just speculation on your part right? You say it so definitively. I believe you could be correct...but I don't think it's been proven in any way that Dooku did indeed pose as Sifo-Dyas. Though, I would not be surprised at all if that's what happened, b.c. hey that Dooku guy is just as sneaky as Sidious and lies all the time playing both sides of the coin everywhere he goes.

    Last thought: Let's respect theories and have fun discussion as SW fans...why id Gui-Gon or Maul being Sifo-Dyas nonsense? If you've got some solid Lucas sources to point us to please do, cause I really would like to read it - sincerely, I would.
  23. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    "They said Master Sifo-Dyas placed an order for a clone army..."

    "I was recruited by a man called Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden."

    "Welcome home, Lord Tyranus."

    That is more than enough evidence to show that Dooku posed as Sifo-Dyas.
  24. SaxTrois Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    Couldn't Maul place the order posing as Sifo-Dyas and then Dooku finishes his work by recruiting Jango to be the host? Not implausible I don't think.
    Also, do you think Jango knew Tyranus was Dooku? Probably, but maybe not...I wonder if Tyranus acted like Sidious and didn't reveal his identity.
  25. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Maul did not pose as Sifo-Dyas. Dooku did. It's that simple.

    Jango probably knew that Dooku was also Tyranus, and he also knew of Dooku's true plans regarding the startup of the Clone Wars.
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