Sifo-Dyas is Darth Maul and there are 2 Clone Wars

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by SaxTrois, Jul 20, 2002.

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  1. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Perhaps you need to take a look at the quote again:

    "Master Sifo-Dyas was killed almost ten years ago."
  2. darth_pooh Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2002
    star 4
    Bib,

    How could Dooku, before he left the order, erase the location of a planet whose importance Dooku would not learn until AFTER he left the order and ordered the clones...get my drift? :p

  3. thejeddiguy Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2002
    sifo dyas

    si dyas

    sidius

    hmmmmmmmmm.......
  4. PMT99 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 23, 2000
    star 4
    "I think one problem George Lucas is running into in making the PT is that there is probably enough "story" to make 4-feature length films. As a result, some scenes have been deleted(e.g. Anakin meeting Padme's family)."

    I heard Lucas mention that he wanted to make 4 films instead of 3 but felt he didn't want to take 12 years out of everyone's lives but I think that if Lucas wanted his films to cover the entire story, he should have made each film last up to 3 hours instead of 2 so that way, he wouldn't have this problem.

    There's no reason for him to make each film a 2-hour length film if there is so much "story" to cover and if it means for him to hear everyone complain about them having to sit that long while they watch the film, that's their problem.
  5. Jek-Porkins Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 2002
    Why couldn't the sliver tongue of Sidious twisted the souls of two jedi's. He could have implated the idea into Sifo's head that it was for the better of the Republic. The deal is made and Dooku takes out Sifo.
  6. Nephrite Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 1
    "OBI-WAN: (V.O.) Yes, Master. They say Master Sifo-Dyas placed an order for the clone army at the request of the Senate almost ten years ago.

    Yoda and Mace Windu glance at each other in surprise.

    OBI-WAN: I was under the impression he was killed before that. Did the Council ever authorize the creation of a clone army?
    MACE WINDU: No. Whoever placed that order did not have the authorization of the Jedi Council, I can assure you."

    I think that means that Sifo died before TPM, which means he could have been on the council. Obi-Wan doesn't say to Yoda that Kaminoians were under the impression that Sifo was on Council.
    So the timeline would go something like this:
    -Sifo-Dyas gets killed by somebody (It's not important)
    -TPM
    -after TPM Dooku discoverd Sidious, and turn to the dark side
    -erased Kamino and left the Order
    -then he used Sifo-Dyas's name when he orders the clones (to frame the Jedi, so that they can be acused for starting the war).
  7. Steve19777 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2001
    star 1
    But it IS important isnt it about Sifo Dyas dying and to state he died almost ten years ago puts it in parallel with The Phantom Menace and to NOT make any reference whatsoever to Sifo-Dyas in Episode I is a tad 'off'
    But as others have mentioned in this post, all people who have left the Jedi have been given a sith name. This will be explained in Episode III to Anakin when he becomes Darth Vader and what better way to grab everyones attention by Sidious stating that he was once a Jedi named Sifo Dyas.
    He left though, disillisiouned with them and went over to the dark side. Whether he left the Jedi council or not, Sifo Dyas was still Sifo Dyas to an unassuming race such as the kamonians. His failure at Naboo indicated that a Droid army was definetly inefficient and could be defeated 9 times out of ten. Therefore he orders the clone army and from another "certain POV" he orders the droid army. Confident that the clones will defeat the army his plan is into plan.
    Now where does this put Palpatine? Well people have mentioned that:

    Sidious is a clone
    Sidious is using Palpatine etc...

    Well maybe Palpatine is using Sidious? Surely is Palpatine WAS Sidious then the Jedi would sense the dark side in him. Then again maybe not, I believe that in TPM when qui-gonn states "I sense a disturbance in the force" this is the exact moment when the tables start shifting and the Jedi can no longer see into the future with ease.

    So for Palpatine and Sidious to work together is mutually beneficial to the both of them.
    This is why Luke is warned about "a certain point of view" in Empire, because from a certain point of view Anakin was a good man who was consumed by Darth Vader, at the time we all thought Vader was another jedi.
    Likewise, in the prequels. Palpatine is a good man who is consumed by Darth Sidious. Sidious then uses Palpatines own army to actually kill Palpatine himself and reclaims his identity. (after all, they are twins....... possbly)

    "You dont know the power of the dark side"

    "the ability to destroy a planet is insignificant next to the power of the force"

    Whats stopping Sidious from actually making himself resemble Palpatine. Resembelling a politician. A lot of conspiracy theorists probably believe this is happening now! lol

    This actually shows us all about two things:

    1) Dual Personality
    2) Certain POV argument.



  8. Pepijn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 4
    Why does he need to resemble Palpatine? Because Ian McDiarmid plays Palpatine and Sideous doesn't mean they have to be clones or twins. Maybe their connection isn't that close, yet.
    Remember, all you see from sideous is his chin and nose. So its possible to imagine that Sideous has another "look". Unlike some people around here, I believe all options are still open.

    Most Likely is Sideous=Palpatine, but on the other hand compare it with ESB...
    Darth Vader: "Luke I'm Your Father."
    Luke: "Nooooo"
    EPIII:
    Palpatine: "Well My Friends, I'm Darth Sideous." Would you be surprised? If this is the big secret of Darth Sideous, it would be a little too predictable, wouldn't it?

    The Sifo-dyas thing probably will be solved in EPIII. But I personally haven't got a clue about it...
  9. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    Perhaps you need to take a look at the quote again:

    "Master Sifo-Dyas was killed almost ten years ago."


    OBI-WAN: They say a Master Sifo-Dyas requested the army on behalf of the Senate nearly ten years ago. I was under the impression he was killed before that."

    Now who needs to check their quotes here, you, or me?
  10. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Sifo-Dyas is a dead Jedi Master. There was no need to mention his death in TPM. It would sound convolted and would give away a plot point for AOTC. Not to mention, Lucas didn't come up with Sifo-Dyas until just prior to the film's release. The original concept was that Sidious used a variation on his name, to order the clones. Lucas didn't like how it went and thus changed it to a dead Jedi Master, who's name was used by a Sith Lord, to order the clones. There is no master plan for Sifo-Dyas at the moment. We'll see when episode 3 comes out in 2005, as to whether or not there is anything to Sifo-Dyas, other than what we know.

    There is no proof that Sifo-Dyas is Sidious. Also, it would take away from the plot and would come off as convolted. Lucas likes to keep it simple, but elegent.

    Sifo-Dyas died prior to the battle of Naboo. Obi-wan wasn't there for the funeral, but the Council was. Dooku most likely used the name to order the clones for Sidious/Palpatine.
  11. AAMD11 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2002
    star 4
    "Ki-Adi was the most recent addition to the Council, replacing Master Micah Giiett. Everyone else had been there for at least several years."

    And thats why he sucks :D

    As for Maul being Sifo-Dyas well I dont really think thats possible, but oh well, you never know. All I think is that maybe the REAL Sifo-Dyas did it, maybe the REAL Sifo-Dyas was in cahoots with Sidious/Palpatine or with Dooku for that matter. But all I know is that as far as Sifo-Dyas goes the REAL one had to be involved somehow. Besides who deleted Kamino from the archives, if he left the order dont you need a membership card to go in the archives? So maybe the REAL Sifo-Dyas was recruited for the job and then killed after he deleted Kamino after he went to pay the Kaminoans a visit, could be possible, maybe we have been pondering who posed as Sifo-Dyas and all this time it was actually him. Meditate on this I will not :D
  12. Darth Pikachuwbacca Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 22, 2000
    star 4
    As for Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan not recoginzing Maul as Sifo Dyas, well, how do we know that they even knew what Sifo Dyas looked like? Maybe Qui-Gon saw a holo of him before once, but that's it. And right before Maul kills Qui-Gon, there is a look on Qui's face when he looks at Maul. Many used to speculate that it was a look of recognition. So, who knows. Maybe he did recognize the face beneath all those tatoos. By the way, my vice principal, whom I talked to every morning when I did the school announcements did not recognize me at all when I had my face done up that way. And I wasn't even distracting him by trying to kill him at the time.

    Also, to put the matter to rest (or to add validity to it) I put forth a question to the JC at the official site last night.

    (I'm paraphrasing what I wrote, but it's 90% accurate.)
    "Is Sifo Dias an alter ego of Darth Maul? Attack of the Clones suggests that they were killed at roughly the same time. So are they the same person?"

    Now, if they answer with a resounding NO, then, case closed. If they don't answer at all, then maybe we are indeed onto something.
  13. Curufinwe Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 14, 2002
    star 2
    Here's my take: Sifo-Dyas was a real Jedi who was killed around the time of TPM. Dooku ordered the clone army using the name of Sifo-Dyas. The Kaminoans may or may not have known the name of Sifo-Dyas, but in order to build more plausibility to the order which was falsely ratified by the Senate, Dooku used the name of a known Jedi.
    I think Lucas just named him Sifo-Dyas so we would think "Hey, that sounds like Sidious, and he's bad, so these clones can't be good."
  14. entfirst Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 21, 2002
    star 3
    I think this topic poster is onto something. Maul very well could be Sifo-Dyas. Think about it. When Obi Wan cuts him in half Maul falls into the shaft. A very deep shaft. My theory is that while Maul was falling to his death (he was still concious after being sliced) he got out his mobile and phoned Kamino and asked for a clone army using the name Sifo-Dyas and listing the consumer as The Republic. What do ya think? ;)
  15. Steve19777 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2001
    star 1
    Sifo Dyas is rick McCallum in disguise. :)
  16. Bib Fortuna Twi'lek Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jul 9, 1999
    star 10
    Perhaps you need to take a look at the quote again:

    "Master Sifo-Dyas was killed almost ten years ago."

    OBI-WAN: They say a Master Sifo-Dyas requested the army on behalf of the Senate nearly ten years ago. I was under the impression he was killed before that."

    Now who needs to check their quotes here, you, or me?


    Neither of us. Both quotes are in the movie. The first one establishes that S-D died after TPM, and the second establishes that he died before the clone army was ordered.
  17. Devilanse Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 11, 2002
    star 5
    Did you actually watch TPM? Maul was not at all interested in things like that. He was a pure warrior. He lived only to battle his enemies and obey his master. He was a puppet, not a puppet master.
  18. SaxTrois Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2001
    keep the discussion coming on this thread - it's interesting!
  19. kampilan Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 18, 2002
    star 4
    I agree that Maul was just a Sith Warrior. Sidious wouldn't send him to do such delicate operation. Maul is not much of a people-person and could care less about negotiating anything!

  20. Rob_Baajakh Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 1
    Are you retarded?! Darth Maul was never a Jedi! Count Dooku and Anakin Skywalker were, so of course they Sith names too. Sifo-Dias was actually a Jedi, but he was killed before the clones were ordered.
  21. Pepijn Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 4
    I agree. Darth Maul was just a hitman of Darth Sideous. All we see from him in TPM is probably all we ever get to know about him.
  22. DarthSkywalker3 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2002
    star 1
    Here is my Timeline.
    -Dooku starts to dip into the Dark Arts
    -Dooku Frausted at the Jedi for not being he leading force in the republic meets up with Sidous and erases the files.
    -Dooku asks Qui-Gon for his help and tells Qui-Gon about the Sith as he did Obi-Wan.
    -Qui-Gon believing it must be done goes to Kamino and orders the clones.
    TPM
    Dooku hires Jango.
    The cloning begins.
    AOTC

    They're many things that back this up.
    1. Dooku and Qui-Gon are both rebels and think the same way.
    2. Qui-Gon knew Maul was a Sith when even Yoda thought it was impossible.
    3.These 3 scenes from AOTC: Obi: "Qui-Gon Jinn would never join you!" Dooku: "Don't be so sure , my young Jedi." Hello
    Obi: "Then you must know master Sifo-Dyas"
    Jango: "Master who." 2 different people.
    Obi: "I was under the impression he died before that." No time give.

    I don't believe Qui-Gon is bad but does what he think is right for the Republic. It is something he would do.

    Qui-Gon is the Obi-Wan of this trilogly. He screws up and attempts to redeem himself. He dies and comes back just like Obi. First voice and then ghost in the next movie. But unlike Obi-Wan he comes back to late.
  23. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 9
    Qui-gon knew Maul was a Sith, because no Jedi would attack another. You have a mysterious warrior armed with a Lightsaber, whose presence isn't felt in the Force, yet fights like a Jedi would. Jedi use the Force for knowledge and defense, never for attack. I'd say he was a Sith too. Does that make me in leauge with the Sith?

    Being a rebel is one thing, but why create an army? As was said, the Jedi would have no need for an army to fight corruption in the Senate. Qui-gon and Dooku aren't stupid, they would see through the ploy and know the truth. Sidious/Palpatine would want nothing to do with the Jedi. He would handle it himself or send Maul out to do it.

    Qui-gon and Dooku have disagreed with the Council before. But not with the Senate, though Dooku was beginning to think otherwise. The fact that Qui-gon was still supporting Valorum shows that he's not totally against him. Not to mention the issue of Obi-wan. A Master/Padawan team are together 24/7, unless indicated. Obi-wan wasn't allowed to take the trials and thus wasn't given his first solo assignment. So, Obi-wan would know that Qui-gon would've gone off by himself.

    The answer is simple. Sifo-Dyas died before TPM. The how's and why's are yet unknown and may remain that way. Qui-gon dies while fighting Maul. Dooku becomes dishearted by the Jedi Council and seeks his own answers. He meets Nute Gunray, who tells him about Sidious. He puts it together and confronts Palpatine, who is looking to replace Maul. The two come to a mutual agreement to destory the Jedi and overhaul the Senate. To have a Clone Army, Dooku uses Sifo-Dyas' name and orders it from the Kamioans.
  24. Monster-0 Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2001
    What if the answer to who is Sifo-Dyas is as simple as Sifo-Dyas is Sifo Dyas?

    What is Sifo was just a Jedi who possibly came under the influences of Sidious in an attempt to replace Maul.

    Possibly he turned to the Dark Side and carried out Sidious wishes and placed the order for the Clone Army. Maybe Sidious killed him because Sifo was not strong enough or did not turn fully to the dark side and became a liability. Maybe Sidious killed him because he more promise in Dooku.

    Maybe Sifo placed the order, got on his ship made the calculations for the jump to hyperspace and bounced to close to a supernova. And once again Sidious is out and apprentice. Enter Count Dooku.

    Just my thoughts...
  25. Obi-Ewan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2000
    star 4
    The first one establishes that S-D died after TPM, and the second establishes that he died before the clone army was ordered.

    The first quote is in the same context as "That's good news" and "That's why I'm here." He feeds these to the Kaminoans to avoid suspicion on their parts. He acts like he expected to hear what he told them, but it was a complete surprise. The second line establishes the true timeframe of Sifo-Dyas's death. He was not killed around the time of TPM, and not after. He was killed before Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan ever set foot on that Federation battleship. So when he says "Sifo-Dyas was killed 10 years ago," he's lying. He speaks the truth when speaking with Yoda and Mace Windu: that Sifo-Dyas was killed too early to have placed the request.
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