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PT Significant mirroring between Episode One and Episode Three (Warning: Image Heavy-Slow Loading)

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by HevyDevy, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    This will probably take a few posts because there a lot of images.
    There are parallels between any of the six movies of the current saga, but some of my favourites come from the two arguably most contrasting films, The Phantom Menace and Revenge of the Sith.
    The movies take place (possibly supersticiously) 13 years apart and seem to kind of invert each other.

    RED/BLUE-
    My first collection of parallels is some examples of red vs blue shots, something that can actually be seen across all six films (such as Shmi dying in Anakin's arms lit red by a fireplace, contrasting Anakin dying in Luke's arms with the calmer blue setting of the deathstar II). I'm not sure red always represents passion such as in the example I just gave, but the colour contrast seems reocurring.

    Qui-Gon,Obi-Wan and Jar Jar drifting toward a waterfall (deleted TPM scene):
    [​IMG]
    Anakin and Obi-Wan drifting toward a lavafall (ROTS):
    [​IMG]

    The same two settings (Naboo and Mustafar) in ROTS from a different angle (heaven and hell?):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    Anakin facing the Council in each movie:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    Padme receiving the Japor snippet from Anakin, and her funeral:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon jumping toward Maul:
    [​IMG]
    Obi-Wan jumping away from Vader:
    [​IMG]



    Interesting contrast:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    Anakin kind of replaces both Qui-Gon and Maul in ROTS:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]



    Qui-Gon meditates when red lasers seperate he, Obi-Wan and Maul:
    [​IMG]
    Anakin suggests patience when he, Obi-Wan, and the Sidious are trapped together in blue:
    [​IMG]


    (I'm running outa image space so onto next post)
     
  2. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    MAUL/VADER-
    I've noticed a lot of similarities in Maul and Vader post-turn.


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    TPM:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    ROTS (Note the door is in the same place):
    [​IMG]




    Destroying a panel to open a door during duel:
    TPM:
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    ROTS:
    [​IMG]

    And kicking Obi-Wan into a backflip:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]




    This one I did a few years ago, it is consecutive...
    Maul arrives on Tatooine:
    [​IMG]
    Vader arrives on Mustafar:
    [​IMG]
    Objective complete, hidden good guys found:
    [​IMG]
    Objective complete, hidden Seperatists eliminated:
    [​IMG]
    After a duel, Qui-Gon (TPM) and Obi-Wan (ROTS) escape on Padme's ship:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Next time they meet, the Jedi who escaped is killed as their apprentices watch on helplessly:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    (Run out of space, please follow me onto next post)
     
  3. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    MAUL/VADER (continued)-

    Another consecutive one. Obi-Wan, of course, faces Maul and Vader at the end of each movie.

    Each duel reaches it's end with a saber lock:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    In TPM Obi-Wan is angry, and is overpowered and pushed to "low-ground":
    [​IMG][​IMG]
    In ROTS Obi-Wan does the smart thing and jumps to high-ground which he think will end the fight. (Also, notice Obi-Wan learns about saber-locks in the prequels... he is defeated by both Maul (TPM) and Dooku (AOTC) when being overpowered by a saber-lock. In ROTS he retreats before it can happen):
    [​IMG][​IMG]

    In TPM Obi-Wan regains himself, takes his fallen Master's saber, jumps over Maul and kills him:
    [​IMG]
    In ROTS, Anakin foolishly tries to use a similar move on Obi-Wan, but Obi-Wan dismembers him. Notice the use of a saber belonging to Obi-Wan's Master (that the Sith apprentice kiled), and Obi-Wan taking a saber belonging
    to Obi-Wan's apprentice (that the Sith apprentice Vader "consumed").
    [​IMG]






    At ROTS' end Vader is loyally at Sidious' side:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Okay that's it for Maul and Vader. Still got a fair bit to post...

    ********************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************************

    TF SHIP/THE INVISIBLE HAND-
    Some similarities in events surrounding Gunray's and Grievous's ships in each movie. Nute Gunray is the TF leader, the TPM equivalent of General Grievous leading the Seperatists in ROTS. They are both described as cowards in each
    movie (Gunray by Qui-Gon, Grievous by Mace Windu).

    Before posting these images, just want to say something about the mirrors in the openings of TPM and ROTS.
    - According to the opening crawls, in TPM the two Jedi are sent by the Supreme Chancellor, in ROTS they are sent to "rescue" the current Chancellor (which has actually been orchestrated by Palpatine himself). Also, a contrast in the fact
    they are invited onto the ship in TPM (a somewhat fraudulent state of peace) but meet harsh resistance in ROTS (where the forced manners have been dropped and it is all-out war).
    - Obi-Wan is one of both pairs of Jedi, going from Padawan of the pair to Master of the pair.
    - Obi-Wan states "I have a bad feeling about this" on arrival at our two feature ships.
    - TPM/ROTS/ROTJ all involve an intimidating faction "blockading" ships. In TPM the TF blockade Naboo. In ROTS the Republic, soon to be an Empire, blocks the Seperatists from fleeing Coruscant with Palpatine. In ROTJ the Empire of
    course leads the Rebels into a trap, which features similar ships to ROTS "blockading" (for lack of a better word). Something interesting is the fact that in the era of TPM, the feigned civility means the Jedi come invited. In ROTS the Jedi
    meet harsh resistance, the hangar doors even ominously slam shut as they destroy the shield generator and arrive on the Invisible Hand. Also there is this... TPM: "Shields up!" *boom* / ROTS: "Well have you noticed the shields are still
    up?" / ROTJ: "The shield is still up!"

    Anyway these all take place involving the two ships I mentioned above:
    TPM:
    [​IMG]
    ROTS:
    [​IMG]

    TPM:
    [​IMG]
    ROTS:
    [​IMG]

    TPM:"They've gone up the ventialtion shaft!" (Jedi moving toward hangar):
    [​IMG]
    ROTS: "Two Jedi have landed in the main hangar bay! We're tracking them." (Jedi having just left the hangar):
    [​IMG]

    This tracking also occurs after fleeing droid-dekas (TPM)...
    [​IMG]
    ...and before being captured by droid-dekas (ROTS):
    [​IMG]

    Finally, Anakin crashes through a droid leaving (TPM) and arriving (ROTS) on the ships:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    (I have more to post later, but gotta go to work at the moment)
     
  4. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Please avoid making posts and posts of images. If possible, describe the similarities in words.
     
  5. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    You make some very good points in regards to imagery. I think you're reaching in a few as well. But Obi-Wan does indeed seem to grow from each duel to become a much more complete duelist.
     
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  6. andresfelix

    andresfelix Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 25, 2014
    that's directing style, nothing else, there is no kind of symbolism
    all Tim Burton movies look the same, all Tarantino movies look the same
     
  7. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Sorry, didn't realise. Does it make the server laggy? Some of these are hard to express in words, but I'll try to cut back on the images.

    Appreciate the response. Yeah, I guess some of them are quite obscure. I do however think Lucas put more into making the six movie saga complement itself than he is sometimes given credit for. But to each his own.



    I'm gonna continue with some more stuff specifically within Ep 1 and Ep 3.


    - Obi-Wan loses Qui-Gon to Maul, then "loses" Anakin to Vader. While Qui-Gon dies peacefully in Obi-Wan's arms and is later cremated, Anakin is dismembered by Obi-Wan himself and is immolated alive, as heartbroken Obi-Wan lectures him. I love the contrasting use of fire here. Qui-Gon becomes one with the force where Anakin is enslaved to the darkside for many years.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    - Amidala (ep1) defies Palpatine with almost the same (yet opposite) statement as her husband (ep3):
    TPM: Palpatine:"Your majesty, stay here, where it's safe!" Amidala: "My fate will be no different than that of my people."
    ROTS: Palpatine: "Leave him, or we'll never make it!" Anakin: "His fate will be the same as ours."

    They are also both used in each film by Palpatine to achieve more power. Palpatine actually needs the (currently) more powerful Amidala to become Supreme Chancellor in TPM. He whispers seduction in her ear and incites her to call for a "vote of no confidence" in Valorum. In ROTS the subtlety is gone as Palpatine can finally declare himself Emperor on his own authority.
    Notice Palpatine is lower than Valorum in the TPM shot:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Finally, Palpatine's lines about bringing peace to the Republic:
    TPM (To Amidala): "Together, we shall bring peace and prosperity to the Republic!"
    ROTS (To Vader):"To cheat death is a power only one has achieved,but if we work together, I know we can discover the secret!"... and shortly later "And we shall have peace".

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    - Mace rejects Anakin in both films.
    TPM: (Mace to Qui-Gon) "No. He will not be trained." Qui-Gon: "No?"
    ROTS: Mace:"You are on this Council, but we do not give you the rank of Master." Anakin: "WHAT?"

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    - Anakin observing ship schematics:
    TPM
    [​IMG]
    ROTS
    [​IMG]
    And the cockpits of the two ships:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    -TPM. Seperatist threat (day):
    [​IMG]
    ROTS. Empire threat (night):
    [​IMG]
    Again...
    "Use caution. These Jedi are not to be underestimated":
    [​IMG]
    "Execute Order 66":
    [​IMG]


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM. Qui-Gon is (arguably) the Master Anakin needed:
    [​IMG]
    ROTS. Sidious fills in as the missing father-figure:
    [​IMG]

    An example on Qui-Gon and Sidious' mentoring:
    Contrasting midichlorian references in TPM in ROTS can be seen as a metaphor on how the Jedi and the Sith view the force. Qui-Gon (the Jedi Master who starts Anakin on his Jedi path) teaches Anakin about symbiosis with the midis (working together for mutual advantage) where Sidious (the Sith Master who starts Anakin on his Sith path) teaches Anakin about imposing your will on the midis to manipulate them.

    Two inverted (yet from a certain pov leading to the same outcome) moments that can relate to this are:
    TPM) Anakin destroying the droid-control ship - arguably the force leads him inside and guides him to do this accidentally, the force using Anakin to do this without any selfishness from Anakin and hence saving the day for the good guys.
    ROTS) Anakin killing the Seperatist leaders in cold blood - This is Anakin at his most selfish imposing his will on the force for his own ends, and ironically shutting down the droids once again (Sidious: "All droid units must shut down immediately"). While it saves the day in TPM ("Peace!"), this action helps doom the galaxy to an oppressive dictatorship that Sidious will present as a state of peace.

    (I will continue with another post probably tomorrow)
     
  8. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Um I admit I am exaggerating, but Lucas said himself that the movies rhyme "musically", and that it is "a much more intricate clock than most people would like to imagine".
    But whatever.
     
  9. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Correct. All I am asking is to try to limit the amount of images you use in subsequent posts.
     
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  10. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
  11. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    - The TF/Seperatist's unfortunate fate in ROTS is ultimately set in motion during the events of TPM. When they unsuccessfully attempt to kill Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan at the beginning of the movie, on Sidious's orders, Dofine remarks "We will not survive this". Ironically it is actually their deal with the Sith that leads to their death, not anything by the Jedi (and the Sith's plot really ultimately puts the Jedi and Seperatists in the same category, neither were ever part of the final plan). Also, the Seperatists and Anakin both actually meet a terrible fate at Mustafar, perhaps re-enforcing the "hell" metaphor Lucas mentioned about Mustafar.
    Finally, I've always found it kind of funny that Maul is sent to Naboo to work with the TF in TPM. Mostly because it now makes sense that the Seperatist leaders welcome Vader to Mustafar, when he is actually there to kill them.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    - One more about Gunray in the two films... Amidala takes the fight to Gunray in TPM, culminated by the confrontation at the palace. They slam the doors shut and Padme sternly remarks "Now, Viceroy, we will discuss a new treaty!" It possibly shows the more diplomatic way Amidala is dealing with Nute, contrasting Vader killing him (last of all the Seperatist leaders) in cold blood in ROTS, again involving the protagonist closing doors and trapping Gunray first.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    - One more about Padme... There is an inverted identity reveal in TPM/ROTS - Padme turns out to be Queen Amidala, to Anakin's pleasant surprise. In Ep 3 Palpatine turns out to be Lord Sidious, and Anakin nearly kills him. It's could be of a sign of each era that Padme is queen of the opening setting in Ep1, where Sidious will rule that galaxy from Ep3-Ep6. Both characters had red royal guards during their time "in office".
    The two characters can also be seen as a symbol of Anakin's shifting loyalties... in AOTC he states to Amidala "I will do whatever you ask" about their relationship, in ROTS he says "I will do whatever you ask" about becoming Sidious' apprentice. It really represents how far he is falling.

    There are double identities throughout all six current Star Wars films. In AOTC, Dooku turns out to be Tyrannus. In ANH, Ben Kenobi turns out to be Obi-Wan. In ESB, Anakin is of course Vader. In ROTJ Leia is Luke's twin sister.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    A few more visual ones...


    - This one is hard to show with pics, but if you watch the scenes Anakin uses the exact same flip over a racer during the podrace as he does over Obi-Wan's ship as they are about to arrive at the Invisible Hand:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    - Anakin also uses spinning to get out of trouble earlier in the above ROTS scene and flying the Nubian fighter in TPM.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    - Maul's death and Dooku's death:

    These duels have some similarities, and a contrasting ending.

    Two Jedi vs the Sith apprentice (decloaking):
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Obi-Wan is taken out of the fight in both duels.
    In TPM Obi-Wan is kicked down a storey, and can't catch up to the fight in time. Qui-Gon is killed because of this, angering the apprentice Obi-Wan:
    [​IMG]
    In ROTS Obi-Wan is thrown down a storey again, and knocked unconscious, angering the apprentice Anakin (trivially, this time Anakin is back-kicked):
    [​IMG]

    In TPM Obi-Wan initially loses the fight while using his anger at the defeat of his Master. He regains himself, takes his Master's saber and kills Maul from a submissive position:
    [​IMG]
    In ROTS Anakin wins the fight using his anger at the defeat of his Master, and his hate for Dooku. Taking the dismembered Dooku's Sith saber and his own he beheads Dooku in cold blood from a dominant position:
    [​IMG]
    Having proven himself, Obi-Wan is knighted as a Jedi shortly later:
    [​IMG]
    Anakin proving himself to Sidious by killing Dooku eventually leads him to be knighted as a Sith:
    [​IMG]

    Thoughts?

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    - This is my final observation. The "up" ending to The Phantom Menace is the polar opposite of the ending of Revenge of the Sith. This is, I think, best demonstrated by this contrast; the TPM celebration and Padme's funeral.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]


    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]




    Also, the final moment of ROTS is quite different to TPM, instead of a crowd celebrating noisily; just a peaceful mood as Owen, Beru, and baby Luke look out to the horizon.
     
  12. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    A couple of quick dialogue links I noticed a long time ago...


    TPM:
    Yoda: Afraid to lose her I think?
    Anakin: What has that got to do with anything?
    Yoda: Everything! Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering! I sense much fear in you.
    ROTS:
    Dooku: I sense great fear in you, Skywalker. You have hate. You have anger. But you don't use them.

    Of course, Anakin's fear is pointed out both times. Yoda's warning seems like it is about something so far away for nine-year-old Anakin. Dooku on the other hand almost perverts Yoda's quote, and helps set in motion Anakin's failure of Yoda's lesson.


    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Anakin and Obi-Wan's ROTS "farewell", the last time they speak as friends, is paralleled by Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon in TPM.

    TPM:

    OBI-WAN : Jar Jar is on his way to the Gungan city, Master. Do you think the Queen's idea will work?

    QUI-GON : The Gungans will not easily be swayed, and we cannot use our power to help her.

    OBI-WAN : I'm...I'm sorry for my behavior, Master. It is not my place to disagree with you about the boy. And I am grateful you think I am ready for the trials.

    QUI-GON : You have been a good apprentice Obi-Wan. And you are a much wiser man than I am. I foresee you will become a great Jedi Knight.


    ROTS:

    ANAKIN: You're going to need me on this one, Master.

    OBI-WAN: Oh, I agree. However it may turn out just to be a wild bantha chase.

    ANAKIN: Master, I've disappointed you. I have not been very appreciative of your training... I have been arrogant and I apologize... I've just been so frustrated with the Council.

    OBI-WAN: You are strong and wise, Anakin, and I am very proud of you. I have trained you since you were a small boy. I have taught you everything I know. And you have become a far greater Jedi than I could
    ever hope to be. But be patient, Anakin. It won't be long before the Council makes you a Jedi Master.

    ANAKIN: Obi-Wan, may the Force be with you.

    OBI-WAN: Good-bye, old friend. May the Force be with you.


    - Both scenes involve the settling of a disagreement.
    - It's a role reversal for Obi-Wan, going from the apologising apprentice to the apology receiving Master. Obi-Wan is, however, the partner siding with the Council in both films.
    - Furthermore, while the TPM scene is the last man-to-man chat the two Jedi have before Qui-Gon is killed by Maul, the ROTS scene is a final farewell before the two meet as enemies and duel.
     
  13. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    @HevyDevy Stop with the posting all those posts. Next time you are taking a vacation.
     
  14. CommanderDrenn

    CommanderDrenn Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2013
    Say what you want about the PT's plot, but the screenplay(if that's the term) is pretty good.

    Also, the images don't bother me. I have a poor internet connection and they loaded just fine.
     
  15. MatthewZ

    MatthewZ Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 21, 2003
    Lot of good stuff to reflect upon in this thread.
     
  16. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012

    The issue has to do with our server space not individual ISP connections
     
  17. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    What? In 2014 -- a few-dozen medium-res JPEGs are enough to cause problems?

    That's sad. I've been enjoying this thread.
     
  18. Seagoat

    Seagoat PT and Music Section Dictator star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 25, 2013
    Can't tell if that "stop posting" thing was legit anger or a lighthearted joke

    This is a VERY fascinating thread. I love this type and the similarities in terms of story elements, characters, or even simple moments like the screenshots here are something I greatly love about SW
    It really is a visual experience. I'd like to try the "watching Star Wars on mute" experiment sometime

    For the record, given the context of what I just said, and what GL himself has said about SW, limiting the number of pics is a little extreme, considering that there are threads with entire pages filled with more images than here, and to say to stop posting this is to defeat the entire purpose of having a SW forum in the first place
     
  19. bibfortuitous

    bibfortuitous Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Excellent thread. I have always thought that TPM and ROTS had a lot in common and that AOTC was the odd one out in the trilogy.
     
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  20. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    What was explained before is that posting several jpgs or other image files in a single post is fine. Having more than 4 or 5 in a single post is problematic. I am not trying to put the kabash on this thread. All I asked was that he break up the photos in several different posts.
     
  21. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    Okay. Then what I think HevyDevy should do for future posts is:

    a) Shrink the images a bit.
    b) Get rid of the black borders.
    c) Combine multiple frames into one image.

    Six images, each comprised of four frames, for example, would equal 24 shots overall.

    More than enough for a single post -- I reckon. (HevyDevy seems to have posted 15-20 shots per post so far).
     
  22. Bazinga'd

    Bazinga'd Hand of the Mod Squad and Enforcer of the Realm star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Lets see how this works out, although I am game for anything reasonable.
     
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  23. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Kinda peeved that my images are down for about another week, but a few quick text ones...


    Maybe an obvious one but -
    TPM
    Obi-Wan: If they find us they will crush us, grind us into tiny pieces, and blast us into oblivion!"
    ROTS (deleted scene)
    Obi-Wan: The slightest charge will blast us into oblivion!"

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM
    Droid (about Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan): "Blast 'em!"
    ROTS
    Cody (About Obi-Wan): "Blast him!"

    Kinda obvious too, but still quite ironic that the clone's first action after turning on Obi-Wan is to speak like a droid. The faction the Jedi believed to be the enemy (the Seperatists/droids) are made to look much less threatening in ROTS, such as the use of funnier voices and some moments of comic relief. Personally I see it as the main reason for the droid voice change; The Trade Federation seems more menacing in TPM (TF dialogue such as "In time, the suffering of your people will persuade you to see out point of view", lower pitched and more robotic droid voices), in ROTS we see the droids being taken out quite easily, and the Seperatists kind of end up in the same boat as the Jedi. The Empire and the Sith (and the clones) look far more dominant as the real villains of the saga by the end of ROTS.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    TPM
    Anakin: "What are we gonna do?"
    Qui-Gon: "We shall be patient."
    AOTC
    Anakin: "She went into the club Master!"
    Obi-Wan: "Patience!"
    ROTS
    Obi-Wan: "Wait a minute, how did this happen? We're smarter than this!"
    Anakin: "Apparently not. I say patience."

    Obi-Wan also comments to Yoda (about Luke) in ESB "He will learn patience."
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    One of the first swaps I noticed in '05 was this...

    TPM
    Sidious (to Gunray): "Wipe them out. All of them."
    ROTS
    Sidious (to Vader): "Wipe out Viceroy Gunray, and the other Seperatist leaders."

    Seems quite apparent what Sidious really thought of Gunray and the Seperatists, just a pawn to be eventually disposed of, like the Jedi (who he duped into fighting a fake war against the Seperatists).

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    This kind of expands on my other observation that Qui-Gon and Sidious both give Anakin an inverted lesson involving midi-chlorians. Like I said, Qui-Gon talks of symbiosis and doing the force's will by listening to the midis, Palpatine will later lure Anakin with talks of manipulating the midis for power.
    But also, there are two alternate implied takes on Anakin's creation.
    TPM; a virgin birth, likely implied Anakin is a son of the force/god. Shmi comments that Anakin "knows nothing of greed" (of course Anakin chooses the path of greed in ROTS, warned of by Yoda: "Attachment leads to jealousy. The shadow of greed that is!") , and the Jedi are quite interested at the possibilty that this is their prophecised chosen one.
    ROTS (and later EU); suggests Anakin was either created by the Sith or by the force in response to Sith meddling. The implication that Anakin is a son of the Sith/devil certainly turns the TPM implication on it's head. It not only makes it much more unlucky for Anakin... perhaps he was destined to turn... but makes ROTJ much more ironic, the Sith creating the cause of their own destruction.
     
  24. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    - Padme and Anakin "swap" R2 and Threepio over the trilogy. R2 begins the story serving on Padme's royal ship, she gives him to Anakin as a wedding gift if I recall, so in Episode 3 R2 is with Anakin. Notice at the start of AOTC Padme flies a Nubian fighter with R2 in it. She also says in AOTC "Stay with the ship R2", something Anakin starts to say later. Threepio is built by Anakin, is kept by Shmi, and ends up serving Padme at her apartment by ROTS.


    - The Jedi perhaps contradict themselves by seeking to be without fear, yet fear the loss of the Jedi order...
    TPM
    Yoda: "Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering!"
    ROTS
    Mace: "Are you sure?" Anakin: "Absolutely." Mace: "Then our greatest fears have been realised."
    ...
    Mace: "I sense a great deal of confusion in you Skywalker. There is much fear that clouds your judgement."
    Anakin: I must go Master.
     
    jbyrd1245 and Cryogenic like this.
  25. Cryogenic

    Cryogenic Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jul 20, 2005
    It seems like a rather petty punishment.

    We're never very far from -- and certainly not free of -- controlling mechanisms.

    Exactly what this whole saga could be said to be about.