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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

PT Significant mirroring between Episode One and Episode Three (Warning: Image Heavy-Slow Loading)

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by HevyDevy, Sep 9, 2014.

  1. {Quantum/MIDI}

    {Quantum/MIDI} Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 21, 2015

    I do not remember that. But I do remember a forum user that had a blog doing the same thing from reddit..
     
  2. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I remember it :)

    The dude who made it actually asked me for some feedback back then, and I sent him some emails with some of my interpretations and what I liked.
     
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  3. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I'd posted a segment of this previously...



    TPM
    QUI-GON: I can see there's no fooling you, Anakin.
    AOTC
    OBI-WAN: Patience. Use the force. Think. She went in there to hide, not to run.
    ROTS
    PALPATINE: You have great wisdom, Anakin.

    An obvious contrast in teaching technique (between Obi-Wan vs Anakin's two other mentors). Obi-Wan means well, but arguably cannot portray the breadth/scope that Qui-Gon and Sidious ingrained into their mentoring of Anakin.




    TPM
    WATTO: The boy is good, no doubts there.
    AOTC
    OBI-WAN: Good call, my young Padawan.
    ROTS
    PALPATINE: Good, Anakin, good. Kill him. Kill him now.
    ...
    ANAKIN: I will do whatever you ask.
    PALPATINE: Good. Gooood.
    ...
    PADME: At what cost? Anakin, you're a good person, don't do this!
    ROTJ
    LUKE: I feel the good in you, the conflict.
    ...
    EMPEROR: Good! You're hate has made you powerful!






    TPM
    QUI-GON: Perhaps I killed a Jedi and took it from him?
    ANAKIN: I don't think so. No one can kill a Jedi.
    QUI-GON: I wish that were so.
    AOTC
    OBI-WAN: Why do I get the feeling you are going to be the death of me?
    ANAKIN: Don't say that. You're the closest thing I have to a father.
    ROTS
    ANAKIN: I will not betray the Republic. My loyalties lie with the Chancellor. And with the Senate. And with you.
    PADME: What about Obi-Wan?
    ANAKIN: I don't know. Many Jedi have been killed. We can only hope that he has remained loyal to the Chancellor.
    ANH
    TARKIN: The Jedi are extinct, their fire has gone out of the universe. You, my friend, are all that is left of their religion.
     
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  4. Tonyg

    Tonyg Jedi Master star 4

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    Jan 16, 2016
    Great observation from HevyDevy (again). And it gives a new value to the highly underrated TPM.
     
  5. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Thanx Tonyg! Appreciate your feedback on my threads recently.

    TPM is kind of a guilty pleasure of mine. Still can't see why it is so derided personally. :)
     
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  6. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    I don't know if I already posted this, but a Padme line that struck me as symbolic just now...

    "Many things will change when we reach the capital, but my caring for you will remain."

    Firstly, there is irony in Padme's idealism and naivety here - she expects that speaking to the Senate will bring an end to her planets enslavement, but soon realises the Senate/Republic is too corrupt to genuinely help. All that really comes of it is Palpatine's election to office.

    Secondly (and also playing into the first point) - Coruscant (before they arrive there) is built up as kind of a haven that will solve Padme's worries, but if you look at the PT, the galaxy capital only ever brings her more hardship.
    AOTC (when her bodyguard is killed) - "I shouldn't have come back."
    Padme a few times in the PT references how much better she felt back on Naboo - "Hold me, like you did by the lake on Naboo." Lucas seems pretty determined in the six films to signify that humbler or more organic roots work largely in a character's favour. The centralisation of the Jedi Order (their temple located on a huge city planet rather than somewhere more humble) also seems to be a big part of their downfall, when Anakin pledges on Coruscant and leads the attack on the Jedi Temple.

    But thirdly, and perhaps most significantly, Padme is making a premonition about she and Anakin's future. Her caring for Anakin is arguably the only thing that doesn't fade as the galaxy falls. Her last words, even after Anakin breaks her heart are solely of concern for Anakin. Their symbiotic connection at the end of the PT makes Padme's TPM line spookily relevant.
     
  7. Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid

    Jedi_Sith_Smuggler_Droid Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 13, 2014
    This is the best Star War thread I ever read. I've spent hours pouring over the content on these pages. Just amazing job HevyDevy (it wouldn't be surprised if you were actually George Lucas) and the rest of the forum members that contributed to this. Truly astounding. Thank you!!!
     
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  8. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    You're too kind :)

    This is what essentially made me a hardcore SW fan back in '05.
    I was pretty spun out when I watched TPM and ROTS back-to-back.
     
  9. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    TPM
    Qui-Gon: "I can see there is no fooling you, Anakin. We are on our way to the central system in The Republic, on a very important mission."

    ROTS
    Anakin: "The Chancellor has given me a very important mission. The Separatists have gathered on the Mustafar system. I'm going there to end this war!"

    Fleeing from the currently dominant TF in TPM is reversed when Anakin becomes the intimidator.
     
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  10. darklordoftech

    darklordoftech Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 30, 2012
    In TPM, the destruction of the Droid Control Ship is a bug, dramatic moment. In ROTS, the death of Nute Gunray is anti-climactic. The Trade Federation has gone from being the main threat to being an irrelevant pawn.
     
  11. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Nice relevant point. :)


    This following one isn't directly related to ROTS;
    but did anyone else get the impression that Obi-Wan being defeated by Maul (pushed into the shaft) moments before Anakin's ship's power comes back isn't a coincidence?
    Like they are sharing a force/luck aura and they can't both succeed at the same time.

    Just a theory.
     
  12. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 11, 2011
    Qui-Gon's tone when he says that indicates that he's trying not to condescend and obfuscate more than is necessary. By contrast, Vader in ROTS gives the impression through his tone that he's trying to condescend to Padme as part of his ploy of keeping her in the dark about his activities.
     
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  13. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 13, 2011
    I agree.
    Also, the TPM mission is one worth completing. Vader trying to complete his "assignment" in ROTS just further damns him.
     
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  14. QuangoFett

    QuangoFett Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 11, 2011
    Just another observation about the condescension or lack thereof.

    Qui-Gon is speaking as an upstanding guy might to a newly acquainted yet bright and good-intentioned 9 year old boy. He doesn't tell Anakin what the mission is about, but he trusts him enough to confide in him some general information. An adult can easily come across as either overly officious or insufficiently serious when dealing with children; Qui-Gon doesn't. He's levelling with him.

    Vader, meanwhile, uses a tone that's infantilising to a 27 year old professional woman. He has been married to her for years, serving in a militarised counterpart to her civilian political role, and he doesn't trust her to know how he plans to force the Confederacy to capitulate. He just uses obfuscating generalities and platitudes. This because he doesn't trust that she wouldn't react badly to what he has done. Whereas Qui-Gon has respect for and trust in Anakin in TPM, Vader is essentially losing his respect for and trust in Padme at this stage of ROTS. She's becoming less of an equal and more of a possession.

    There's also a political subtext. He's conducting a secret assassination campaign on behalf of the autocratic leader of the Galactic state. He's keeping an elected official in the dark. The simple and dynamic new authoritarian regime he has helped usher in has more skin-crawling opacity than the somewhat stagnant democracy that existed thirteen years prior.

    Linked to your point earlier about ROTS depicts the breakdown of relationships, converse to TPM's depiction of their building up. Often very similar relationships.
     
  15. PCCViking

    PCCViking 5X Wacky Wednesday & 4x Hangman Winner star 10 VIP - Game Winner

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    Jun 12, 2014
    Interesting observation about Anakin's attitude and how he phrases things. AOTC made it clear that even back then, Anakin thought a dictatorship was the way to go. Padme thought he may have been teasing, but clearly the foundation was set for ROTS.
     
  16. MarcJordan

    MarcJordan Force Ghost star 4

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    Nov 17, 2014
    This will blow your minds :

    Padme : Are you sure about this? Trusting our fate to a boy we hardly know.

    Padme : l dont know you anymore!

    MJ
     
  17. Lulu Mars

    Lulu Mars Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 10, 2005
    :eek:

    That actually did blow my mind.


    Don't forget, though: "Ani, you'll always be that little boy I knew on Tatooine."

    Can she make up her damn mind?
     
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  18. MarcJordan

    MarcJordan Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 17, 2014
    Take this! :cool:


    Senator Palpatine will need your help. ( directed to Padme)
    [​IMG]



    I need your help son. (directed to Anakin)
    [​IMG]


    Tell me, who's mind is blown? [face_devil]

    MJ
     
  19. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 13, 2011
    Lol when you put a lot of connections together it can be quite trippy.

    Notice in TPM Padme holds more power in the Senate than Palpatine, and Palpatine uses her status and fear for her people to seize power.
    Come 13 years later and Palpatine basically simply states to the Senate "We are an Empire now" and they lap it up. As Vader, Palpatine's muscle, kills the Separatist leaders on Mustafar to seal the deal, Padme - now powerless relative to Palpatine - can only watch on in horror as something she helped initiate reaches it's conclusion.
     
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  20. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012
    HevyDevy Thanks for the tag...

    You have outdone yourself! Just another great thread...

    The mirroring between Anakin in ROTS and Luke in ROTJ are my absolute favorite, especially when it comes to the scenes with Luke on the Death Star and Anakin on the Invisible Hand. It's crazy how even the most hardcore of Star Wars fans miss the deeper mirrors in those scenes. Sure, they can point to the similarities of the scenes, A Jedi fighting a Sith, as Palpatine sits and watches with a space battle going on outside the windows. However, so many miss those deeper themes that are going on, the themes of Father and Son, and the choices each individual makes at a pivotal moment.

    Also, of note, on my Facebook page, my header graphic is Luke staring at the binary sunset of Tatooine merged with Anakin staring at the single, smoked clouded sun of Mustafar...

    [​IMG]

    Again, just an awesome read... I haven't gotten thru all of it, as there is so much to read. However, there is nothing I can add to what is already near perfection!
     
  21. Darthman92

    Darthman92 Force Ghost star 6

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    Feb 24, 2016
    I love how those two scenes parallel but contrast each other.

    The youthful innocent yearning to experience the universe VS An experienced man who has regretfully lost his own
     
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  22. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jan 6, 2012
    Exactly, Two Sunsets, representing a future not yet decided for the son (choice and hope), mirrored by the Father with only one sun, representing a choice that has led him down one path and one path only...
     
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  23. HevyDevy

    HevyDevy Force Ghost star 5

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    Apr 13, 2011
    Appreciate the response man, but was your post intended for the Anakin/Luke inversion thread?
     
  24. mikeximus

    mikeximus Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jan 6, 2012

    bahahaha... yes it was.... sorry about that...
     
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  25. Darthman92

    Darthman92 Force Ghost star 6

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    Feb 24, 2016


    I admittedly haven't looked there yet. I suppose it's a safe bet that HD already said the gist of my tidbit there right? So much for my grand sense of profundity! lol