Similarities between the Force and faith

"Don't try to scare us with your sorcerers ways Vader, your devotion to that ancient religion........"
"I find your lack of FAITH disturbing"
LOL

I'm going out on a limb here but I know this could be a great topic.

Everytime I watch ANY of the SW films I feel inspired. I am hoping that I can start a small discussion here about the similarities between the FORCE (as described by Lucas in these stories) and FAITH.

According to statistics most americans say they are what is called a "christian", meaning that the say they believe in what Jesus taught. But think about it, what he taught is quite strange and extraordinary and if you really read what he did and said it is VERY similar to the Jedi ways. No I'm not nutty... Give me a shot to explain what I am saying..

QUOTE: "IF you had FAITH as small as a grain of mustard seed you could say to that mountain go and cast yourself into the sea and it would.."
Jesus said this. But it sounds like something Yoda would say. lol. I mean Whoa. Wow. That is a big statement. Hard to believe too.

He was saying that we have the power within us to do anything through our FAITH. Even move mountains. This is the same thing Yoda teaches Luke. I remember Luke trying to raise his ship out of the swamp with the FORCE and failing. He does not believe he can do it and so it comes halfway up, and falls. Yoda believes and has faith in the FORCE and pulls the ship out. When Luke tells Yoda "I don't believe it" Yoda says "THAT is why you fail." FAITH is Highly important for the Jedi.

Speaking of falling into water...
We all remember jesus walking on water.
Even if we are not christian we have heard that story... but a part we may not have heard is the part where a follower of his came onto the water with him. He walked a way across just like jesus did.... but the moment he REALIZED he was "walking on water" he FELL in.
Kind of like the MATRIX movies. I love those too.. "I'm trying to free your mind Neo"

ALL through these movies I see soooooo many similarities in what I've read Jesus say and do and what Lucas writes that his characters have the faith to say and do. I come away from the films knowing that we all have such potential.. and yet we just need to believe and most of the time we just can't and "that is why we fail".

Do you think the same things when you see these films? When you see in Starwars the faith, miracles, forgiveness, humility of the jedi, the dark side and the good side, and when you hear the Jedi speak of the "Will of the FORCE" just like some talk about the "Will of god"?

Sooooo many similarities. God I hope we can discuss this without this getting removed because I really wonder about how others feel about this a lot.

Another cool story about jesus was when he and his followers were on a ship during a storm.. the ship tossed because the storm was very violent.. and jesus was sleeping.
lol. One of his followers came and yelled "wake up we are going to die!!"
Just like C3po said to R2 "Wake up.... we're doomed!" Jesus stood up and told the sea and wind "PEACE be still". Everything got quiet and obeyed his FAITH. Much to the shock of those on the boat with him, even though they were told to believe and they could do these things too.

I really find myself laughing while I watch the Star wars movies.. as a follower of the teachings of jesus I realy get a kick out of and LOVE these films. I love the way Vader has such faith in the will and power of the force, and is rewarded in the end by fate having his own son show him the way back.. I love seeing Luke learning like many of us try to, and Yoda being so much like jesus was.. humble, kind, wise and FULL of Power but living simply and walking in Faith. Little Yoda, Not LOOKING like a jedi master or anything special.. but inside he was. "Judge me by my size do you? BEware you should not, for my ally is the FORCE, and a powerful ally it is." he said.

I crack up when I hear Han say
"I've been around but Ive never seen anything that could

 

Hmm, that's interesting ... I myself am a humanist, I don't believe in any god or any religious teachings. However, I do see something very inspiring in the Force, and I don't think faith necessarily has to be faith in God or religion - it could be simple faith in the goodness of humanity, faith in truth, faith in love and compassion, faith that somehow, everything will turn out OK in the end if we put trust in ourselves and in other people. That's the kind of faith I have, and it's the kind of faith I see in the SW saga. I don't think it HAS to be religious in its basis, although it does apply to just about every world religion as well.

EDIT: Plus, I think it's important to recognise how George Lucas himself sees the Force. He's said he doesn't see the Force as God, but it's an amalgimation of all kinds of different world religions, and was an attempt to inject some spirituality in the movies. If we look at the Force as it is, it can be religious, humanist and naturalist, all in one - as Obi-Wan would say, the way you see the Force depends "on your own point of view". It doesn't hand down commandments and tell us what to do and what is right and wrong; Yoda tells us that "life CREATES it" - nature and life create the Force, nurture it, enable it to grow, we enrich it. Now, as I said, I'm completely unreligious, but I do believe that we all have a chance to enrich the world. It's a gift to be alive, and it's a gift we should use, by being good to others, not to gain a place in Heaven (which I don't believe in), but to make the world better for us and the people around us - to be compassionate and kind and patient, to learn and gain knowledge, to hand down that knowledge. I don't actually think that spirituality is the sole property of organised religion, I think it's a natural human feeling to be curious about that sort of thing - the choice we make is whether to believe in a god and follow his teachings, or whether to stay outside that and believe in the spirituality of nature, humanity and life for what it is. I'm not saying either choice is right or wrong - but I think the Force can reflect both world-views, which is wonderful.

 

I don't think the Force requires faith, as there is evidence for it. People can demonstrate using it in various situations, it's simply a matter of practice and midichlorian count. There is no evidence of God in our world, hence, believing in It requires faith. You could say that Luke had faith in the Force when he decided to convert Vader; everyone said it was impossible, and he had no logical reason for trying it, but he believed that it was possible.

 

That's a good point, too - the Force is scientifically proven in SW, since it can be analysed through midichlorians. Also, it's not having faith in the Force that enables you to use it - Han doesn't become a Jedi by learning to trust the Force. It's something people are born with.

That's an interesting idea about Luke having faith in the Force to save Anakin - but it could also simply be faith in Anakin Skywalker, faith that he was once a good man and could be a good man again. That's still faith, though - faith in the goodness of his father, and faith that if you've taken the wrong path, it's never too late to turn back.

 

All religions and myths have common threads which make them similar. Directors such as Kershner have always argued that the interest Lucas has in mythology and religion have always given his work a personal touch. Star Wars is a story about mythology and good and evil and the choices we all make. So there are many things in the films which come from Eastern thought and to a degree biblical thought. It is based on mythology and if you are agnostic, religion is part of mythology.

The Force is not really a religion in Star Wars. There are some who call it that, but that really stems from an ignorance of what the Force and the Jedi are. The Imperial officers in A New Hope, don't really understand the force, the just shrug it off as a mystical type of thing.

Yet as we have seen in the prequel trilogy, the Force is much more of a Biology experiment then a spiritual thing. It is spirtual but it is also biological.

Lucas stuidied many religions for the movies and that is where you are seeing common threads.

I'm not very religious at all and do agree with a lot of humanist beliefs. I am inclined to agree with Science before relgion. That is beside the point.

I don't think Yoda is based on Jesus. I think he is much more eastern in thought and the result of many different people and teachings.

-Seldon

 

They are both works of fiction and serve to generate billions in revenue.

 

You might enjoy a short book by Richard Bach called "Illusions: Adventures of a Reluctant Messiah"

It is a short but fun book, and it goes in several directions (from walking on water to watching movies), but the basic idea is that we create our own realities based on the illusions that we permit ourselves to believe in.

If I think something is impossible, or at least too difficult for me to do (levitating something, for example), sure enough, it will be an impossible achievement. If, on the other hand, I decide that walking on water is as easy as breathing under it (I mean, fish do it all the time, right?), then sure enough, I can more easily retrieve some of my errant golf shots. Or maybe I should just believe that I can hit it straight in the first place

Bach is the same guy who wrote "Jonathan Livingston Seagull"

Oh, and fear not: there are no bad golf jokes (nor jokes about bad golf) in the book; that one was mine alone. Although there are plenty of references to flying.

 

That's the great thing about movies, people can look into it and see all kinds of things, whether they're intended or not. A lot of people see echoes of Christ in The Shawshank Redemption with Andy Dufresne, but Frank Darabont said none were ever consciously intended. That's what's great about art - everyone sees something different, depending on their worldview.

 

Faith is a belief in something that cannot be proven using purely sensory or logical means. My belief that my computer exists is not "faith" because it can be seen and touched. My belief in God is a matter of faith because I cannot prove or demonstrate God's existence to a skeptic using only sensory means and logic.

Whether someone believes in God or some other deity, the key to the idea of Faith is that you are believing in the existence of something that cannot be proven.

Whether the existence of Force in the GFFA is ever "proven" or "provable" is up for debate. I do not think the existence of midi-chlorians proves the existence of the Force. A skeptic might still be able to deny any connection between the midi-chlorians (which he can see in a microscope) and the "Force" (which is just a bunch of simple tricks and nonsense).

Based on this understanding, I think the existence of the Force is indeed a matter of "faith" in the GFFA. The number of skeptics is probably relatively small in the time of the PT, but it should increase between the PT and OT, as the number of Force-users decreases and it becomes easier to write off the stories of the Jedi's feats as exaggerated legends.

(There is also a minor variation on the meaning of the word "Faith", that is, a belief in something that has not yet been proven true, but might be in the future. As in, "I have faith that the Cubs will one day win the World Series".)

 

I think one of the greatest connections between SW and the Christian religion is the remark that Yoda makes about "the mind of the child," when they helped Obi-Wan find his missing planet. That is almost directly from the Bible where Jesus says you must become like a child.

Although I will say, one connection I don't like is the fact that Anakin had no father like Jesus. Emaculate Conception by the Force? Not diggin' it.

 

Emaculate Conception by the Force? Not diggin' it.

Immaculate Conception - Biological Father and Mother involved. Pls don't get it confused.

 

While I don't belive in god persay,(sp)?, I think that Human beings have a soul and that we don't know the full potential of what the human mind is capabale of: Psychokinesis,telekinesis,telepathy,mind reading,astral projection,etc........ We still have not unlocked the full potential of the human mind and still have a long way to go. Heck I may not believe in god but I believe in a possible afterlife or going to another dimension after you die and the possibility f going back to your previous dimension. And yes, the Force and faith in genral are very similar.

 

openmind thanks for the correction....hey, it was late!...

 

Very interesting thoughts, Tatooine_Gemini...

Others have pointed out something important, I think: that the Force is a measurable phenomenon that can be manipulated in order to do 'miracles,' such as lifting a ship out of water.

Those who feel they have faith in Christ, on the other hand, don't seem to feel they are doing the same thing. There is no measurable phenomenon that they are manipulating. As they see it, when they work miracles, it is actually God working through them. (Of course, there are a variety of viewpoints on the issue.)

But your argument is still a good one. Perhaps the salient point is that both SW and the Christian stories highlight the power of thought. If you truly think that you cannot walk on water, both say that you will not be able to. But unlike a rationalist, neither SW nor Christian writers believe that your failure will be due to the fact that walking on water is scientifically impossible. They claim that your failure will be due to improper thinking; in other words, your lack of faith.

It's a radical point of view, and one that many religions do not share. The fact that the 'miracle' scenes in SW are some of the most popular may suggest that people (subconsciously?) recognize it as related to the Christian stories they have internalized.

 

I believe the Force is VERY similar to catholic teachings. Of course, as someone mentioned earlier, I could have convinced myself of that because that is what I want to believe from the films, and I understand that statement. It makes sense but I do not believe that is my case. I am a strong believer in God and the Catholic faith. Although I do not believe that the SW saga was INTENDED for pushing religious beliefs on people or trying to introduce them, I do enjoy them for their religious aspects. I do believe an important point is INTENTION. I don't believe one should believe in God simply for the sake of being able to do incredible things. There are certain limits on HOW to apply the Force as there are applying God's will:


FORCE:Knowledge and defense, never for attack.
Faith:As in Satan's test of Jesus to cast himself on the rocks in the desert, Jesus knew he could not test God simply because he believed in Him.

To me, people cannot abuse God's power as the Jedi cannot abuse the Force simply because they can. That's why there is a Jedi code, to help apply the Force in a strict, learned manner. That is why they go to a Jedi academy. That is why Catholics go to a Catholic school (of some kind) to learn how to apply God's teachings in a strict, learned manner.

If one abuses these teachings for one's own benefit, amusement, or delusions of grandeur, then one is oblivious to the true nature of their Faith or the Force, IMO.

Now, I've mentioned Catholicism, but it can apply to any religious faith, I just used it as an example I am familiar with. And if there is no religion that you believe in, that's fine. I'm simply trying to connect how the Force and Faith are related in the SW saga, IMO. There is no right or wrong answer, this is just how I see it.