Simple Tricks

I hate all the Kyp threads, so I thought I'd start a new one.

This story, by Chris Cassidy and Tish Pahl, is, I feel, the one time since JAT that Kyp has actually been portrayed right. I think these two should write at least an eBook or better yet a novel focusing on Kyp. And what could be more fun than having Fen and Ghista vs. the Vong?

 

I agree with you totally, Mastadge!! I loved Simple Tricks. It was a good portrayal of Kyp. Too bad it was so short. I also liked the characters of Fen and Ghitsa a lot too. Yeah, the hard-edged Kyp of the NJO is a little hard to believe after a story like Simple Tricks.

Jae Angel

PS- I'm REALLY going to study for physics now!! Ah procrastination, thy name is message boards

 

Thinking on it, I feel we can see the start of the NJO Kyp here. That being Kyp the user. He did try to get someone to kill him because he felt that's what he deserved. And he failed in the attempt because they realized what was happening.

 

Heh!-)

Actually, that kinda makes sense... I guess the problem with NJO Kyp is that we never see his own POV, and so the character is reconcilable with what they did in Simple Tricks...

But yeah, a Pahl/Cassidy NJO Kyp e-book would be a damn nice idea...

Are you paying attention, LFL!?

- The Imperial Ewok

 

oh, I doubt they dare give us a book with any opinion other than the Luke supporters. Heaven forbid, more might have differing opinions!

 

I concur with the honorable delagates of the lit forums.

 

"Thinking on it, I feel we can see the start of the NJO Kyp here. That being Kyp the user. He did try to get someone to kill him because he felt that's what he deserved. And he failed in the attempt because they realized what was happening."

Once again, you are entitled to your own interpretation of the events in Simple Tricks, but that doesn't mean I can't disagree with you. I believe it was Chris Cassidy and Tish Pahl's intentions to make you feel sorry for Kyp when he asked Fen to kill him. He wasn't manipulating her into doing it, he was begging her to. God forbid Kyp should ever be portrayed as a poor wretched soul! However, if there was no NJO then you would feel sorry for Kyp upon reading simple tricks, plain and simple. It's that darn Jaina thing!! Man, if Greg Keyes knew how much of a commotion that part of Rebirth is stirring up in the forums, I'm sure he'd find it funny indeed! But I have accepted that those who dislike Kyp will always find some way to dislike him even if he's portrayed as a Ghandi-type character in the future. Darn you, Greg Keyes! Darn the entire NJO!!!

Jae Angel

PS- I'm only pretending to be sad

 

Simple Tricks was good because it portrayed Kyp as a human. Not particularly good, not incredibly evil. I still don't agree with his actions, but it made them more understandable.

 

And if Kyp had stayed a poor wretched soul in Simple Tricks, it would have been one thing. But he did try to get out of the life sentence that was placed upon him.

Tales from the New Republic, Simple Tricks, pages 376-377:

He fell to the ground in an unresisting heap. "I don't know," Kyp said, his voice ragged. "I should be. I should be dead."

Fen went for the reassurance of her blaster, bitterly cold to the touch. She raised it, taking aim at the filth before her. She had killed better than this before and for less than crimes against the galaxy.

He finally looked up at her, and she could see the tears glistening on his face. "No one would blame you, Fen, for killing the murderer of billions of sentients."

Fen felt an itching in her fingers. He wants me to kill him, she abruptly realized.

Please, Fen, came the wail in her mind. He outstretched his hands to her.

Fen was moved, but not to pity. "You're a real blackhearted coward, Jedi," she snarled, thrusting her blaster back in her holster. "Trying to get me to do something you don't have the courage to do yourself."

If Kyp had honestly felt guilty enough that he should die for what he did after he had done it, then why didn't he go down with the ship? He stuffed himself into one of the Sun Crusher's communication pods in order to escape from the Sun Crusher. No, it sounds more like he didn't want to live with the punishment he would be forced to endure. That being the knowledge of what he had done and knowing that folks would never look at him the same way again. Knowing that they'd always see him as a kind of monster, even though he had been redeemed. So he tried using Fen to do something that he refused to do himself.

For the rest opf the story, Kyp is actually someone who can be admired. That's not something I can say about the NJO Kyp, but it is something that I can say about the post-Sith Kyp. However, as I said in my earlier post, in Simple Tricks we see the beginnings of the NJO Kyp, Kyp the user.

 

I haven't read Simple Tricks, sounds good. Where can I find it?

From what I've heard from you guys, it seems to be yhat he's feeling extremly guilty, and has tried to get away from his punishment. Quote from Corran after hearing about Kyp's "sentencing":

"Punishment for a crime serves a multitude of purposes. It proves there is a consequence for violating the social contract that binds us all. It serves as a deterrent for others committing such acts. Lastly, and most important here, is that the infliction of that just punishment establishes and sustains the moral authority of a group."

Especially in the last, both Luke and Kyp were wrong. By not being punished, the public who don't understand will see him as a mass murderer who was let free to become an agressive Jedi.

 

"I haven't read Simple Tricks, sounds good. Where can I find it?"

Tales of the New Republic

 

My read on Kyp Durron from Simple Tricks is that he knows that whatever he does from that point on, he will always be remembered for the attrocities committed at Carida. Thus, the guilt over knowing what you have done is one thing. But, there will always be those sentients that will point to Kyp's actions at Carida regardless of how great Kyp's future actions become; for those sentients, forgiveness and trust will never come. So how does one overcome that? Is being allowed to live with that knowledge, along with that guilt, a punishment that can be overcome?

It's a realization that is daunting in scope and that sets the standard unbearingly high in Kyp's Quest for Redemption.

 

I agree with you Ana. Kyp is living his punishment every day of his life for the destruction of Carida. He may go about trying to make up for it in a different way than you or I would, but that's just his preferred way of doing things. But I still don't believe Kyp was using Fen at that point. If anything he was being a bloody coward. But that's not to say that we don't all have moments of personal weakness. Kyp just finished telling Fen about killing his brother and destroying Carida, he was bound to be feeling some emotional turmoil. Sometimes profound depression makes you feel suicidal, if even for an instant. And Kyp decided that he could better pay off his debt to society by being alive and a jedi than by going down with the suncrusher. A lot of people believe that this was a big mistake given the Kyp in the NJO, but the Kyp in Champions of the Force had no way of knowing what he'd become. It's a big weight on an eighteen year old's shoulders. Give the kid a break for once!!

Jae Angel

 

So do you guys find Kyp's portrayal in Simple Tricks conciliable or even consistant with how he's been acting in the NJO?

 

It's consistent. Simple Tricks was great. It showed how sorry he was. And now in NJO HE'S TRYING TO MAKE UP FOR IT. hE'S TRYING TO SAVE THE GAAXY FROM THE vONG. nOW i DON'T want to start another big debate, so you might not agree with his actions. Do not start debating his actions. You may agree with them, you may not. I will not debate them with you here. Stay on the topic.

P.S.

Sorry for the caps.

 

It doesn't need to be consistent, as Kyp is much, much, much younger in Simple Tricks than he is in NJO.

 

Mastadge, I think Kyp's actions in Simple Tricks are consistent with his portrayal in NJO in two areas.

First, Kyp is proactive, (and perhaps even impulsive), in both "Simple Tricks" & the NJO - and this has also been a constant with Kyp throughout the SWEU.

Second, I think Kyp's destiny, starting from the conclusion of JAT, has always followed a "Quest for Redemption," and I sincerely believe that some of Kyp's introspection for that quest is inferable from Kyp's portrayal in "Simple Tricks," as well as from his actions in the NJO.

Whether Kyp will be successful in this Quest for Redemption - ultimately - remains to be seen.

 

The using of someone else to try and get what he wants is consistant with the NJO Kyp. The rest, however, is consistant with the post-Sith pre-NJO Kyp. The "I must try for attonment" Kyp. To the shock of everyone one, if this were the Kyp we had in the NJO, then I wouldn't be in the Kyp haters camp. This Kyp I actually liked. But Kyp is becomeing something dark.

The only part in Simple Tricks where I was disgusted with Kyp was when he tried to get Fen to kill him. He basically tried making her do it. The rest though, that's a horse of a different color.

 

Knight, there's a fine difference between forcing and begging. I'm sure that if Kyp was forcing Fen to kill him then he could have done it. He's a powerful enough jedi to influence others actions. What I'm wondering is how Fen could have heard him begging her to kill him if she wasn't force sensitive. . .hmmmmm, now there's another topic entirely. Actually, from the text it looks like she's only interpreting his body language.
"Please, Fen," came the wail in her mind. He outstretched his hands to her.
It just doesn't make sense that Fen, without any jedi powers, could have heard Kyp projecting his thoughts into her mind. She was interpreting his body language, which is much different from him actually manipulating her mind to get her to kill him. Of course it's easily interpreted this way, but I still believe he wasn't using her. She had her blaster out even before she heard his "voice". She wanted to kill him, and he wanted her to as well, because he was filled with guilt over what he'd done.
I dunno. I guess for this one we'd have to ask Chris Cassidy and Tish Pahl, to see what they really meant by that part of the book.

Jae Angel

 

He only begged when he realized she knew what he was doing. And notice how he begged, by using the Force.

 

I'd like to retract my previous statement about Fen not being force sensitive. I guess I didn't read closely enough because it turns out she was. Ok knight, MAYBE he was manipulating her just a little. . .still, not as much as what he did with Jaina. And I can't believe we're ignoring the part where he lied about who he was, and then Fen's reaction when she found out he was "sithin' Durron"

Jae Angel

 

No, I agree that it wasn't anything like Jaina. My point was that that one seen shows the start of the Kyp who would use Jaina and others to get what he wanted. He wanted to die, but he couldn't kill himself so he tried getting Fen to do the deed for him. The rest of the story Kyp acts nobly. But that one scene, that's where we start to see the Kyp we find in the NJO. It would take years before that Kyp fully appeared.

 

Knight, do you think there's a chance in the universe that Kyp could ever go back to how he was in Simple Tricks? I mean, I was reading a part of Vector Prime, I believe, and at one point Kyp said that he did what needed to be done, but that he didn't like what he'd become either. This could have also been in Rebirth. I don't remember. I sort of looked through them all within an hour so it all got jumbled together. So maybe if Kyp doesn't really like what he's become he might stop being such a jerk at some point. Ha! I admit, it's a long shot, but it just might happen. Maybe if he's the one to bring Jaina back from the dark side he just might learn something about himself in the process. . .

Jae Angel

 

Some how I doubt it. I'd rather we didn't see him become this guy. He could still lead forces in battle, but something more toned down and more respectable to folks. I mean we get the sense of shoot first and then ask if there's anyone to ask of when we first meet him in the NJO. Then it's use all the force you can get no matter what and who cares what it costs you as long as you hurt the other guy really bad. I mean, we don't know how many have died and been replaced in the new Dozen.

 

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